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Americans oppose religious exemptions from coronavirus-related restrictions

Phys251

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Americans Oppose Religious Exemptions From Coronavirus-Related Restrictions | Pew Research Center

A new Pew Research Center survey finds that U.S. adults overwhelmingly say houses of worship should be required to follow the same rules about social distancing and large gatherings as other organizations or businesses in their local area. About eight-in-ten Americans (79%) take this position, four times the share who think houses of worship should be allowed more flexibility than other kinds of establishments when it comes to rules about social distancing (19%).

PF_08.07.20_covid.religion-00-0.png


Even a clear majority of Republicans support this sensible measure. Yet again it is the loud minority who wants otherwise. :thumbs:

The particular measures that Americans want, however, is mixed:

PF_08.07.20_covid.religion-00-1.png
 

Ikari

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I was under the impression that most were actually operating with restrictions.
 

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If church services were marked by social distancing and masks, they probably wouldn't be such a problem.
 

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I was under the impression that most were actually operating with restrictions.

If I had to guess (and I could be wrong), I'd say that the sort of people most loudly demanding to go back to church aren't huge fans of restrictions.
 

Ikari

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If I had to guess (and I could be wrong), I'd say that the sort of people most loudly demanding to go back to church aren't huge fans of restrictions.

Maybe not, but I do know of several Catholic churches which operate under restrictions and the parishioners aren't setting **** on fire. I'm sure many wished it could be back to normal, but accept the fact that we aren't in "normal" at this time.
 

Rexedgar

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Thread reminds me of this old joke:

A storm descends on a small town, and the downpour soon turns into a flood. As the waters rise, the local preacher kneels in prayer on the church porch, surrounded by water. By and by, one of the townsfolk comes up the street in a canoe.

"Better get in, Preacher. The waters are rising fast."

"No," says the preacher. "I have faith in the Lord. He will save me."

Still the waters rise. Now the preacher is up on the balcony, wringing his hands in supplication, when another guy zips up in a motorboat.

"Come on, Preacher. We need to get you out of here. The levee's gonna break any minute."

Once again, the preacher is unmoved. "I shall remain. The Lord will see me through."

After a while the levee breaks, and the flood rushes over the church until only the steeple remains above water. The preacher is up there, clinging to the cross, when a helicopter descends out of the clouds, and a state trooper calls down to him through a megaphone.

"Grab the ladder, Preacher. This is your last chance."

Once again, the preacher insists the Lord will deliver him.

And, predictably, he drowns.

A pious man, the preacher goes to heaven. After a while he gets an interview with God, and he asks the Almighty, "Lord, I had unwavering faith in you. Why didn't you deliver me from that flood?"

God shakes his head. "What did you want from me? I sent you two boats and a helicopter."
 

Cardinal

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Maybe not, but I do know of several Catholic churches which operate under restrictions and the parishioners aren't setting **** on fire. I'm sure many wished it could be back to normal, but accept the fact that we aren't in "normal" at this time.

If church goers are wearing masks and socially distancing, then that's obviously a hell of a lot better than if they're not, though ideally we'd track developments just to be sure.

Personally, I think they should just do zoom services. Nobody has to be there in person.
 

Ikari

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If church goers are wearing masks and socially distancing, then that's obviously a hell of a lot better than if they're not, though ideally we'd track developments just to be sure.

Personally, I think they should just do zoom services. Nobody has to be there in person.

No one has to be, this is true. But if it can be done relatively safely and with restrictions, then there's no reason it shouldn't be either. There's lots of things that are opening back up, as is necessary. There's no reason to leave out religious institutions from this.
 

Cardinal

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No one has to be, this is true. But if it can be done relatively safely and with restrictions, then there's no reason it shouldn't be either. There's lots of things that are opening back up, as is necessary. There's no reason to leave out religious institutions from this.

It's not that they're religious which is at issue (though I'm sure Christians are loudly and frequently claiming precisely that). It's that it's indoors, lasts several hours, and is defined by lots of loud talking and singing. The whole mix is a perfect transmission vector. And yes, there are numerous other scenarios that are just as bad if not worse.
 

HenryChinaski

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Ikari

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It's not that they're religious which is at issue (though I'm sure Christians are loudly and frequently claiming precisely that). It's that it's indoors, lasts several hours, and is defined by lots of loud talking and singing. The whole mix is a perfect transmission vector. And yes, there are numerous other scenarios that are just as bad if not worse.

Well it lasts an hour. There is typically singing and recitation of prayer, this is true. But if one is socially distanced and wearing masks and disinfecting areas when done, it can greatly lower the probability of transmission. I mean, restaurants are open within social distancing guidelines. You have to wear a mask when you go in, and when you walk around, but you're typically not wearing a mask when you're sitting down. Since eating and drinking require the use of a mouth. And there's usually talking as well. And granted, most people aren't spontaneously bursting out into song while at Red Robins, but there's still a lot of transmission vectors available.

Yet we socially distance the tables, we disinfect between each sitting, people wear masks while moving about. It's not ideal, but these do help lower the probabilities. The probability will never be zero during the pandemic, but the economy and our lives cannot be zero either. Not all of you are as prepared as the introverted hermits, such as myself, to live life in isolation at all times.

So businesses are opening up with restrictions, I see no reason why religious institutions should be allowed the same.
 

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Some churches tried drive-in services which were social distancing and still found themselves targeted by officials. It isn't like the fear the were being harassed was unfounded.

As for my area, many places did it online. Once they restarted regularish services. I have donated 1,000 masks, 100 cans of lysol, and God only knows how many canisters and packets of cleansing wipes to churches via a single collector church I've never stepped foot inside. I personally think the masks are worthless, but they need to check the government mandated box to not be harassed. Anyway, they are being shared among several loaded down with old people poor churches in the one community of the collector church, so if COVID gets a foothold in that community, those folks will be goners.
 

Cardinal

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Well it lasts an hour. There is typically singing and recitation of prayer, this is true. But if one is socially distanced and wearing masks and disinfecting areas when done, it can greatly lower the probability of transmission. I mean, restaurants are open within social distancing guidelines. You have to wear a mask when you go in, and when you walk around, but you're typically not wearing a mask when you're sitting down. Since eating and drinking require the use of a mouth. And there's usually talking as well. And granted, most people aren't spontaneously bursting out into song while at Red Robins, but there's still a lot of transmission vectors available.

Yet we socially distance the tables, we disinfect between each sitting, people wear masks while moving about. It's not ideal, but these do help lower the probabilities. The probability will never be zero during the pandemic, but the economy and our lives cannot be zero either. Not all of you are as prepared as the introverted hermits, such as myself, to live life in isolation at all times.

So businesses are opening up with restrictions, I see no reason why religious institutions should be allowed the same.

Re-opening the restaurants didn't work. California did that, which is why the exemplary initial handling of the outbreak turned into a state-wide cluster****. Social distancing in small enclosed spaces without masks is a performance penned by child-like thinking. Making your way to the table while wearing a mask, sitting down and taking off the mask is just another silly performance to convince ourselves we're being smart about this. If the coronavirus were anthropomorphized, it would be laughing its ass off at all of this. It's all a particularly stupid version of the two second rule.

Anyway, I never claimed that all churches behaved equally irresponsibly, but they're hot spots to be sure, and if we're still rationalizing the opening of schools, churches and restaurants, then six months into the pandemic we as a nation clearly aren't ready to take it seriously.
 

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Re-opening the restaurants didn't work. California did that, which is why the exemplary initial handling of the outbreak turned into a state-wide cluster****. Social distancing in small enclosed spaces without masks is a performance penned by child-like thinking. Making your way to the table while wearing a mask, sitting down and taking off the mask is just another silly performance to convince ourselves we're being smart about this. If the coronavirus were anthropomorphized, it would be laughing its ass off at all of this. It's all a particularly stupid version of the two second rule.

Anyway, I never claimed that all churches behaved equally irresponsibly, but they're hot spots to be sure, and if we're still rationalizing the opening of schools, churches and restaurants, then six months into the pandemic we as a nation clearly aren't ready to take it seriously.

Our restaurants are still open. Our microbreweries too. Colorado can't go on without our microbreweries. It would be the death of us. Our churches are open as well, with restrictions. Everything is open right now with restrictions.

Things went up, it was expected that as everything opens that numbers will increase, but they didn't spike, and our new daily cases are trending back down now. We'll see how things go moving forward. I think we had to find some compromise, the State couldn't keep closed forever, there's not infinite money to stand around, but we didn't want to go balls to the wall just yet. We're monitoring our numbers and regulating our opening restrictions, and moving forward.
 

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Don't gather in crowds during a pandemic.
 

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Our restaurants are still open. Our microbreweries too. Colorado can't go on without our microbreweries. It would be the death of us. Our churches are open as well, with restrictions. Everything is open right now with restrictions.

Things went up, it was expected that as everything opens that numbers will increase, but they didn't spike, and our new daily cases are trending back down now. We'll see how things go moving forward. I think we had to find some compromise, the State couldn't keep closed forever, there's not infinite money to stand around, but we didn't want to go balls to the wall just yet. We're monitoring our numbers and regulating our opening restrictions, and moving forward.

Tracking the development in real time is a fool's errand. That's not how this virus works. It has massive lagging indicators and multiple waves.

Nearly every single human being who's drawn a conclusion about the development by looking at the present-day statistics has eventually made a fool of himself. Even people praising New York's eventual domination of the outbreak are tempting the fates. Mark my words: if the people of that state get smug, they're going to be another California. This virus thrives on open economies and gatherings, and all it takes is a couple Typhoid Maries to **** everything up.
 

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Tracking the development in real time is a fool's errand. That's not how this virus works. It has massive lagging indicators and multiple waves.

Nearly every single human being who's drawn a conclusion about the development by looking at the present-day statistics has eventually made a fool of himself. Even people praising New York's eventual domination of the outbreak are tempting the fates. Mark my words: if the people of that state get smug, they're going to be another California. This virus thrives on open economies and gatherings, and all it takes is a couple Typhoid Maries to **** everything up.

It does, but without a TARDIS, there's not much else we can do other than make changes and watch the numbers. CO was one of the first States to begin these soft reopening measures, and we're seeing a decrease in new numbers, have been for close to 3 weeks now, we'll see how things keep changing.
 

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It does, but without a TARDIS, there's not much else we can do other than make changes and watch the numbers. CO was one of the first States to begin these soft reopening measures, and we're seeing a decrease in new numbers, have been for close to 3 weeks now, we'll see how things keep changing.

It's hubris. Until there is a centralized, organized and coherent national response, these local measures will fail.
 

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It's hubris. Until there is a centralized, organized and coherent national response, these local measures will fail.

It's science. You have to make changes to the variables under study and observe the results. Trump ain't gonna do ****, there's no point to waiting for Trump. The States will make their own decisions and should work together to come up with comprehensive plans on what they are doing and how they are testing and what works best to get the economies going again. Those who are too afraid to take a step will be gobbled up by the darkness.
 

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Well it lasts an hour. There is typically singing and recitation of prayer, this is true. But if one is socially distanced and wearing masks and disinfecting areas when done, it can greatly lower the probability of transmission. I mean, restaurants are open within social distancing guidelines. You have to wear a mask when you go in, and when you walk around, but you're typically not wearing a mask when you're sitting down. Since eating and drinking require the use of a mouth. And there's usually talking as well. And granted, most people aren't spontaneously bursting out into song while at Red Robins, but there's still a lot of transmission vectors available.

Yet we socially distance the tables, we disinfect between each sitting, people wear masks while moving about. It's not ideal, but these do help lower the probabilities. The probability will never be zero during the pandemic, but the economy and our lives cannot be zero either. Not all of you are as prepared as the introverted hermits, such as myself, to live life in isolation at all times.

So businesses are opening up with restrictions, I see no reason why religious institutions should be allowed the same.

A couple of other factors with Churches:
1) They tend to be respectful toward their leaders and rule-followers. The pastor/priest asks them to wear a mask and sit in family groups, they do.
2) There's not a lot of mixing of groups with churches. The same people tend to attend the same services, and attend churches near their home. That's very different than restaurants, which may have widely varying groups.
3) The whole sanctuary is emptied between services, allowing for disinfecting of the whole area (as opposed to piecemeal).
4) The church itself tends to 'rest'. A service is held (maybe a couple on Sunday) then it sits empty for much of the week.

There are certainly going to be problem churches - where the leadership doesn't take precautions, but this is rare. Most churches are very aware of the dangers of this virus and are taking it very seriously. These are not high risk, and are one of the lower risk activities.
 

eman623

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Churches should have the same limitations as other businesses. That's not what's happening though. They are getting extra restrictions that similar businesses do not have.
 

dcsports

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Churches should have the same limitations as other businesses. That's not what's happening though. They are getting extra restrictions that similar businesses do not have.

Exactly!
 
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