American journalism is collapsing before our eyes

[Dittohead not!]

Logic is a method of thinking, and can be learned.

For example, your contention that: "give the SAME EDUCATION to 2 different BRAINS... is learning the same??? learning is NOT THE SAME.. then learning does NOT come from education or training.... learning comes from the brain"

By which I am assuming you mean "If you give the same education to two different people, they will learn differently. Thus, learning does not stem from education and training, but from the brain in question." You make the illogical jump from an obvious statement about how no two persons are the same, to a claim that education and training have no affect on learning, only the brain itself does.

This is clearly not true, as you can easily understand if you realize that changing the method of education and training can improve final result on the same brain. Often you have to change how you explain something to a person in order to get them to understand fully.



Learning is the process through which you train your brain. Having a genetically better starting point may help, but a large portion of how smart you are is in the training process. And it's an ongoing training process.

Good luck. Sailaway thinks that logic = all caps.

 

[The Mark]

WRONG..... Logical thinking is an ABILITY.....its also similar to common sense..... neither one can be LEARNED

the higher the logical thinking ability the more complex an issue can be analyzed correctly to BE LOGICAL

same as the higher of the common sense ability can then analyze MORE complex issues

a simple issue does NOT require high logical thinking ability...


again the proof of this is.... give the same education and training....give it folks to analyze complex issues... if the answers are the SAME from both then logic ability is LEARNED..... BUT BUT BUT it is NOT the same proving the ability is based on what ingredients that brain has...


this is why females who have the same or better grades in math courses and then takes the SAT MATH test and the results are not equal and the same... the difference goes in favor of males... BECAUSE of different ABILITIES of LOGICAL THINKING ABILITY

Your proof is not proof, unless you ignore multiple variables.

Let's look at this logically.

Your presented test/study is to give the same education and/or training to multiple people. You propose that the resulting data will inevitably show a result wherein no two people have identical results from this education and training.

Your conclusion is that training and education do not have any affect on the ability of a person to think logically.

This is illogical, because it ignores all the other factors in play here, for example:

No two people learn in the exactly the same way - one person might learn well under a given course of education and training, and the next person would learn poorly.
What education, skills, and training each person had before this test - a person skilled with computers would do better on any portion of the training involving computers, whereas someone who had never seen one would not do as well.

In effect, you imagine an very poorly constructed study, which does not account for the variables, and whose results cannot be used for anything. Except perhaps an example of how not to perform a study.

 

[KLATTU]

I
Enough of the stupid dishonesty of speaking only of a "mainstream media" which is cherry-picked to refer only to certain TV media sources. If you add up all types of media available to the public, it's about evenly balanced.
e.[/I]

Hmm. Interesting point. Maybe if you count bloggers and the like it might be true.
But the 'liberal media bias' meme grew from the fact that the 3 networks , almost every big city paper, Time and Newsweek were ( and still are) liberal. Is that counteracted by Fox, the WSJ and the various rw blogs? Not sure.

I think conservatives DO live in the past a bit . Those media outlets mentioned above don't have anywhere near the clout they had 25 years, because people tend to seek out the media sources that fit their ideology.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Hmm. Interesting point. Maybe if you count bloggers and the like it might be true.
But the 'liberal media bias' meme grew from the fact that the 3 networks , almost every big city paper, Time and Newsweek were ( and still are) liberal. Is that counteracted by Fox, the WSJ and the various rw blogs? Not sure.

I think conservatives DO live in the past a bit . Those media outlets mentioned above don't have anywhere near the clout they had 25 years, because people tend to seek out the media sources that fit their ideology.

They do, don't they? And now, there are so many different sources to choose from, thanks mainly to the internet, that people don't ever have to see or hear anything that contradicts their own biases. Maybe that's why the people have become so polarized now: People don't understand the others' point of view. They think everyone has the same opinions that they have.

 

[SailaWay]

this post here

/////////////////
Your conclusion is that training and education do not have any affect on the ability of a person to think logically.

This is illogical, because it ignores all the other factors in play here, for example:

////////////////

you are NOT understanding this....There simply are NO OTHER FACTORS that make a change IF the ability does not allow it..

the factors that comes into play and increases something is SIMPLY allowed BY THAT ABILITY..... that ability controls and allows ONLY with how much ability is there.... if NO ability NO LEARNING AND NO CHANGE


now can you understand?? the ABILITY allows or does not allow and allows what level if it does allow a brain dead person shows that ability is NOT there ... so no learning or change.....


so the bottem line is nothing can change without the ability... cannot be learned .. cannot be trained... its all based on THE ABILITY

 

[The Mark]

this post here

/////////////////
Your conclusion is that training and education do not have any affect on the ability of a person to think logically.

This is illogical, because it ignores all the other factors in play here, for example:

////////////////

you are NOT understanding this....There simply are NO OTHER FACTORS that make a change IF the ability does not allow it..

the factors that comes into play and increases something is SIMPLY allowed BY THAT ABILITY..... that ability controls and allows ONLY with how much ability is there.... if NO ability NO LEARNING AND NO CHANGE


now can you understand?? the ABILITY allows or does not allow and allows what level if it does allow a brain dead person shows that ability is NOT there ... so no learning or change.....


so the bottem line is nothing can change without the ability... cannot be learned .. cannot be trained... its all based on THE ABILITY

I would agree that it is unlikely an attempt at training a brain-dead person would succeed.

However, I disagree that a persons ability to learn from training is solely based on their ability. Different people have different strengths, and these strengths may or may not be further strengthened or utilized by a specific form of training.

When you say that giving two people the same training will yield different results, I agree.
When you say that this is due solely to their individual ability to learn, I disagree. The form said training takes also has an effect.

Now, it seems that you meant "people can't learn if their ability does not allow it" - which makes far more sense. I have a slight quibble - it may be that the learning needs to be tailored to their abilities, and doing so will allow learning where a "one size fits all" approach would fail.



But I agree that if someone is somehow completely incapable of learning, then of course any training attempt would fail.

 

[bluesmoke]

They do, don't they? And now, there are so many different sources to choose from, thanks mainly to the internet, that people don't ever have to see or hear anything that contradicts their own biases. Maybe that's why the people have become so polarized now: People don't understand the others' point of view. They think everyone has the same opinions that they have.

You can get your numbers from the following:

Here's How Liberal Or Conservative Major News Sources Really Are - Business Insider

For more than you wanted to know:

Political Polarization & Media Habits | Pew Research Center

Whatever you make of the numbers, people choose what source they want. I myself think it's lousy journalism from all around. It's been that way for a long time, letting politicians get away with non-responsive "answers", and journalists not bringing up what is more substantive to the American people. It's just the worst I've ever seen it now.

 

[SailaWay]

I would agree that it is unlikely an attempt at training a brain-dead person would succeed.

However, I disagree that a persons ability to learn from training is solely based on their ability. Different people have different strengths, and these strengths may or may not be further strengthened or utilized by a specific form of training.

When you say that giving two people the same training will yield different results, I agree.
When you say that this is due solely to their individual ability to learn, I disagree. The form said training takes also has an effect.

Now, it seems that you meant "people can't learn if their ability does not allow it" - which makes far more sense. I have a slight quibble - it may be that the learning needs to be tailored to their abilities, and doing so will allow learning where a "one size fits all" approach would fail.



But I agree that if someone is somehow completely incapable of learning, then of course any training attempt would fail.

you contradict yourself in your answers

AGAIN.... its the ability that decides EVERYTHING.... so you are just wasting time and getting things wrong in trying to say the different data is what brings a different result...... BUT its NOT the different data that brings the different change... it is THE ABILITY... IT is the different LEVEL of an ability...

lets give the same data to different abilities....that same data does not bring the SAME result.. WHY?? because its ALL BASED on the level of that ability

this is why educational system is a fraud today and bringing nations down...

you are just wasting time thinking its the environment that makes a change..... NOPE it is how different the genetics are that makes and controls ANY change....

and all this also shows there is NO FREE WILL as einstein understood...... BUT BUT our genetics makes us THINK AND FEEL we have free will FOR A GOOD REASON..

we are puppets on a string.... but we are made to THINK and FEEL otherwise

 

[The Mark]

you contradict yourself in your answers

AGAIN.... its the ability that decides EVERYTHING.... so you are just wasting time and getting things wrong in trying to say the different data is what brings a different result...... BUT its NOT the different data that brings the different change... it is THE ABILITY... IT is the different LEVEL of an ability...

lets give the same data to different abilities....that same data does not bring the SAME result.. WHY?? because its ALL BASED on the level of that ability

this is why educational system is a fraud today and bringing nations down...

you are just wasting time thinking its the environment that makes a change..... NOPE it is how different the genetics are that makes and controls ANY change....

and all this also shows there is NO FREE WILL as einstein understood...... BUT BUT our genetics makes us THINK AND FEEL we have free will FOR A GOOD REASON..

we are puppets on a string.... but we are made to THINK and FEEL otherwise

No.



.

 

[SailaWay]

Your proof is not proof, unless you ignore multiple variables.

Let's look at this logically.

Your presented test/study is to give the same education and/or training to multiple people. You propose that the resulting data will inevitably show a result wherein no two people have identical results from this education and training.

Your conclusion is that training and education do not have any affect on the ability of a person to think logically.

This is illogical, because it ignores all the other factors in play here, for example:

No two people learn in the exactly the same way - one person might learn well under a given course of education and training, and the next person would learn poorly.
What education, skills, and training each person had before this test - a person skilled with computers would do better on any portion of the training involving computers, whereas someone who had never seen one would not do as well.

In effect, you imagine an very poorly constructed study, which does not account for the variables, and whose results cannot be used for anything. Except perhaps an example of how not to perform a study.

RESULTS are PROOF..... BUT BUT what makes the results PROOF..... yep again its logic...if one has the highest logic and when they tell you what is proof then it is !!....

again the ability decides everything and NOT the data or environment... a brain dead person has no ability and the environment cannot affect..... a 1 percent ability then can make a 1 percent change..... an 80 percent ability can make a 80 percent change

again it is not the environment that controls or makes changes...... its the ability and what level the ability is at..

PSST PSST PSST.... a brain dead person's environment has no effect to make a change

is that hard to understand?? with a dead brain there is NO ability ....so its clear that no change can come UNLESS the ability allows it NO MATTER HOW MUCH TRAINING OR EDUCATION

 

[The Mark]

RESULTS are PROOF..... BUT BUT what makes the results PROOF..... yep again its logic...if one has the highest logic and when they tell you what is proof then it is !!....

again the ability decides everything and NOT the data or environment... a brain dead person has no ability and the environment cannot affect..... a 1 percent ability then can make a 1 percent change..... an 80 percent ability can make a 80 percent change

again it is not the environment that controls or makes changes...... its the ability and what level the ability is at..

PSST PSST PSST.... a brain dead person's environment has no effect to make a change

is that hard to understand?? with a dead brain there is NO ability ....so its clear that no change can come UNLESS the ability allows it NO MATTER HOW MUCH TRAINING OR EDUCATION

No.





.

 

[SailaWay]

Political Correct Nations ARE about to LEARN a HARD and PAINFUL LESSON

they should have learned after rhodesia and south africa showed what will happen if you allow a NON VOTING ability to do THE VOTING..

same is coming to europe and america

 

[The Mark]

Political Correct Nations ARE about to LEARN a HARD and PAINFUL LESSON

they should have learned after rhodesia and south africa showed what will happen if you allow a NON VOTING ability to do THE VOTING..

same is coming to europe and america

Now I have no idea what you're talking about.

However, I googled rhodesia, and apparently it doesn't exist anymore. Or at least not as rhodesia.


It sounds like you're saying some people aren't capable of intelligently voting.

I would contend that this can be addressed by providing proper education to everyone.

 

[SailaWay]

Now I have no idea what you're talking about.

However, I googled rhodesia, and apparently it doesn't exist anymore. Or at least not as rhodesia.


It sounds like you're saying some people aren't capable of intelligently voting.

I would contend that this can be addressed by providing proper education to everyone.

rhodesia was a prosperous nation until the change to allow non voting abilities to do the voting and that elected the crooks and it became the hell hole called zimbabwee today

It is OUTRAGEOUS that the news media does not cover that issue and the cause.....but that same change is coming to liberal europe and america because the voters are doing an ability they do NOT HAVE .. this always can be predicted by anyone with logic

this was predicted by the wise founders.... who said there never was a democracy that didn't commit SUICIDE

 

[The Mark]

rhodesia was a prosperous nation until the change to allow non voting abilities to do the voting and that elected the crooks and it became the hell hole called zimbabwee today

It is OUTRAGEOUS that the news media does not cover that issue and the cause.....but that same change is coming to liberal europe and america because the voters are doing an ability they do NOT HAVE .. this always can be predicted by anyone with logic

this was predicted by the wise founders.... who said there never was a democracy that didn't commit SUICIDE

I'm not sure how to even approach this.

 

[SailaWay]

I'm not sure how to even approach this.

understand what happened to rhodesia and you will understand how liberalism will soon fall also for the same reasons

political correctness goes against the laws of life and will always fall.. abilities cannot be changed .. success comes from going with the abilities and failure comes when going against abilities

 

[Mr Person]

understand what happened to rhodesia and you will understand how liberalism will soon fall also for the same reasons political correctness goes against the laws of life and will always fall.. abilities cannot be changed .. success comes from going with the abilities and failure comes when going against abilities

There's just too much IQ in this post. I cannot comprehend it in its true form; it blinds me.

 

[SailaWay]

Now I have no idea what you're talking about.

However, I googled rhodesia, and apparently it doesn't exist anymore. Or at least not as rhodesia.


It sounds like you're saying some people aren't capable of intelligently voting.

I would contend that this can be addressed by providing proper education to everyone.

wake up.. education is NOT understanding.. it is copying.. like a parrot

 

[SailaWay]

There's just too much IQ in this post. I cannot comprehend it in its true form; it blinds me.

with any logic you can predict correctly from what happened to rhodesia and south africa when voters IQ's dropped

america;s Voters IQ's are at record lows and dropping each and every day.. but soon to stop the harm like to rhodesia and south africa there will be a logical thinking ability test for voters and with that liberalism will never come again

 

[Arjay81]

wake up.. education is NOT understanding.. it is copying.. like a parrot

No, true education is learning how to think, not what to think.

The education system today concentrates on the teaching what to think, to make its students politically neutered.

 

[The Mark]

wake up.. education is NOT understanding.. it is copying.. like a parrot

That's education done wrong.

Education done right trains you how to think, how to reason your way through problems - and teaches you some of the knowledge that is already known, but with the standing caveat that there exists a possibility, however slight, of that knowledge being incorrect.

 

[Northern Light]

America is doomed because of its polarization, as the OP illustrates.

As long as people are too busy seeing sides and blaming others, the People will never unite against the common enemy.

Journalism is collapsing? That happened a long time ago. Wake up already.

We have devolved into a polity of corporate fat cats and demagogues. Has nothing to do with the candidate du jour.

 

[SailaWay]

That's education done wrong.

Education done right trains you how to think, how to reason your way through problems - and teaches you some of the knowledge that is already known, but with the standing caveat that there exists a possibility, however slight, of that knowledge being incorrect.

wrong it cannot train you to THINK... if so a lizard could go to college and get TRAINED TO THINK.. this is the fraud lie that liberals has brainwashed into some people

 

[zimmer]

Michael Goodwin is a man who spent 10 years as a reporter for the NY Times, was Executive Editor of the NY Daily News and won a Pulitzer Prize as Editorial Page Editor for their successful campaign to rescue the legendary Apollo Theatre from mismanagement.


When a man with that background and experience calls the MSM out for it's blatant bias and disreguard for fairness, it means something and is difficult for anyone to ignore.





American journalism is collapsing before our eyes | New York Post

.

I love reading his stuff.

His article about coming around to be a Trump supporter months ago, and the reaction of his friends/aquaintences was a fun read.

American journalism isn't. It's dead... There are a few signs of life, but all-in-all... there's a big fork sticking out of it.

That's good... Because it means people aren't buying the Socialist BS most of these Goebbels inspired rags and networks are puking out. Just too many instances when they've been caught torturing the truth... Or simply ignoring/not reporting it.

And then their gang-bangs on their opponents.

You'd think they'd get the facts out about Ferguson... Or other such instances... But nooooo. Instead they edit out (Zimmerman), and poison minds. Sick.

And we have the latest bit by CBS editing Felonious Bill's comment that Hillary's episodes are frequent.

Or Hillary's being incapacitated... No legs, face planting into the van, and then showing up 90-minutes later seemingly normal. That ain't normal. What happens? The press turns and starts analyzing Trump, when there is now a long history of Hillary having fits, seizures and spasms. Trump? Nary a sign... Ever...

 

[Arjay81]

wrong it cannot train you to THINK... if so a lizard could go to college and get TRAINED TO THINK.. this is the fraud lie that liberals has brainwashed into some people

Once again, you ignore what actually is said. It teaches the concept of independent thought, not group think.

Critical thinking is sorely lacking in the political thinks and debate of today.