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Allowing independents and third party members to vote in primaries.

pinqy said:
And yet such shenanigans don't happen.
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LOL!!

They do happen.

An Associated Press analysis of early voting records from data firm L2 found that more than 37,000 people who voted in Georgia’s Democratic primary two years ago cast ballots in last week’s Republican primary, an unusually high number of so-called crossover voters. Even taking into account the limited sample of early votes, the data reveal that crossover voters were consequential in defeating Trump’s hand-picked candidates for secretary of state and, to a lesser extent, governor.

Some Democrats voting in GOP primaries to block Trump picks

Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger probably would not have won last week’s Republican primary without Democrats.
apnews.com

Here's another article...

Democrats' bold strategy could upend GOP primaries

Some Democrats are registering as Republicans to vote in the party's upcoming primaries.
www.newsweek.com

pinqy said:
Would you really give up your vote in the Republican primary in order to try to give the edge to a less popular Dem in their primary?
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I don't vote in any party's primary because I'm not a member of any party...so no.
 
I'm not your research assistant and I suggested to you where to go for your enlightenment.

I suggested you go directly to: How did Independents vote for president in 2016 and in 2024?

Your egocentric post presuming to instruct the processes of debate is instead resistant to self discovery.

I reiterate the knowledge deficit in your posts can be corrected by you yourself by applying discovery learning. That MagaMericans reject facts since 2015 and daily deny facts precludes any efforts by me to present any MAGA with facts and reality. Which is why I told you where to go.
 
Xilnik said:
I was referring to the following part of what you said. Maybe I misunderstood your context, and I offer my apologies for not being clear.
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It's all good. My post and point might not have been clear to you. Or maybe I misread your intent to provide an example (thinking about this later), as making a point.
 
Wait! You think I am part of MAGA?

I gave you your change to support and explain, but no. According to Pew, in 2016, independants were evenly split between Hillary and Trump, with about 15% voting third party. In 2024, more independents voted for Harris than for Trump with even less of them voting third party. So no independants really didn't give us Trump.
 
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Tangmo said:
Your posts resist and deflect from searching the following: "How did Independents vote for president in 2016 and in 2024?"

That you just will not do it is on you.
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Check the update. I had accidentally hit the post before finishing it up.

Also how is asking you to support your assertion or asking where your information is coming from being MAGA? MAGA's don't even bother with that. They just disclaim. Check the first line of my sig. Tell me any MAGA would admit such a thing
 
SkyChief said:
I think that independents and third party members should be allowed to vote in primaries.

The right to vote is the cornerstone principle of any democracy.
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Personally, I don’t think it makes a difference. In Georgia, an open primary state, we just register to vote, no party registration. Which means one can vote in whichever primary one wants to vote in. Independents are allowed to vote in either one, the republican or the democratic primary. But in the primaries, only the hard core, politically active party members tend to vote in their primaries. Most independents, swing voters don’t vote in either major party’s primary. Even with independents, swing voters being able to vote in either primary, only 550,000 voted in the 2024 GOP primary, 290,000 in the democratic primary. A total of 840,000. That’s but 11% of all registered voters in Georgia. Compare that to the 5.4 million Georgians who voted in the 2024 presidential election or 72% of all registered voters. Unless one is a diehard, very partisan democrat or republican, political junkie so to speak, primaries don’t draw much interest. At least in Georgia, a state where independents, swing voters are allowed to vote in the primaries, they can even choose which primary.

Taking a SWAG, I would say only a handful of independents voted in the Georgia primaries. 5% or less. Even though independents make up 43% of the electorate, they made up only 31% of those who actually voted in the presidential general election.
 
@Tangmo BTW, it turns out that about 4% of Democrats voted for Trump in 2024 and Harris lost by 2%, so it seem that those few Democrats are the ones that handed Trump the win.
 
The stark choice for voters in 2024 was liberal democracy vs fascist dictatorship.

Independents elected Trump this past November saying fascism is fine just lower my expenses.

Independent voters put Trump over the top in 2016 to set in motion the continuous daily horrors, madness and destruction Trump and His MagaMericans have done increasingly even while Biden was Potus.

So called independent voters have put Trump and his madhouse acolytes in power and authority to implement their 21st Century Uniquely American Fascism. Indeed, and as your post testifies, independents have always hated the two party system so they have worked tirelessly over decades to wreck it. This is when America has either a two party system or the one single party system of dictatorship.
 
maquiscat said:
@Tangmo BTW, it turns out that about 4% of Democrats voted for Trump in 2024 and Harris lost by 2%, so it seem that those few Democrats are the ones that handed Trump the win.
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Many Independents have the Democratic party as their favorite target and this has been true for decades. These many "independent" voters insist on giving Republicans a free ride.

In 2024 Independents in the swing states elected Trump again, just as Independents in the swing states elected Trump in 2016.

Independents in the swing states elected Biden in 2020 to complement Biden carrying independents decisively nationwide.

In 2024 Harris carried Independents 49% to Trump's 46% but swing state independents who have no problem accepting American Fascism voted for Trump to lower their household expenses. You self identify here as an independent and your posts are doing what so many independents do over decades which is to target the Democratic party. Trump and MagaMericans and their 21st Century Uniquely American Fascism get your free ride.


 
As I have posted to the thread "independents" in the swing states elected Trump in 2016 and "independents" in the swing states elected Trump in 2024.

And that by 2024 the voters had the stark and naked choice of liberal democracy vs fascist dictatorship.

So called independents in the usual suspect swing states of 2024 said fascism is fine as long as it lowers their household expenses. Yet now these moron voters have fascism with tariffs and the accelerated movement to a one party state.

So called independents have for decades pined to smash the two party system. This is when the only real and actual alternative is the single party state of Trump and His MagaMericans.
 

I am not finding anything in this article that is specifically attributing any wins to either person in the two elections as being due to independants. Show and quote the numbers. Now I do understand that you are interpreting what is there as such. And for that matter, I am not even claiming that you are wrong. I'm just not simply going to accept your word on it unless you can show me the actual numbers.

Tangmo said:
You self identify here as an independent and your posts are doing what so many independents do over decades which is to target the Democratic party. Trump and MagaMericans and their 21st Century Uniquely American Fascism get your free ride.
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I'm not targeting either party here. That is your own bias showing. I have voted for Republicans (I had seriously hoped for Larry Hogan to run this past election and still hope to see him in 2028), Democrats (Harris was my vote this past year), and various third parties (Stein (Green) in 2016 and Johnson (Libertarian) in 2012). There is nothing that Trump has done that I can recall ever supporting, and if you ever frequent the Abortion or Sex and Sexuality forums, you'll find that my views there are firmly on the liberal side of things. Again look at the first line of my sig and try to tell me that any MAGA would make such a claim. However, my personal position doesn't mean that I should just accept any claim that you throw out simply because it is against Trump.
 
Tangmo said:
So called independents have for decades pined to smash the two party system.
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I'll agree to this. Every other country where they are getting things right in terms of healthcare and worker protections, among other issues, has three or more active political parties in power. So yes, smash the two party system. While better than a one party system, it is only slightly more so.
 
As revealed in your post #58 your posts were all along lying in wait with your 4% of Democrats voting for Trump in '24. This made no difference given "independent" voters in the swing states put Trump over the top once again, just as so called "independent" voters in the swing states put Trump over the top in 2016 to enable and begin Trump's 10 years of continuous destruction day by day, week by week, month by month, year by year indeterminately.

By 2024 so called "independents" in the swing states said fascist dictatorship is fine if it just lowers their household expenses. Which is does not do of course and never was going to do. The problem with "independent" voters is that they don't know whether they're coming or going. And that you guys keep meeting yourselves on the way back.
 
Of course not.

This is why I don't bother trying to argue with people who don't find or accept the facts of votes being counted, how they add up and what they say prima facie. The numbers you can't and won't find are in the link of course.

Your posts will continue to assert until the cows come home the vote totals are my posting bias which they are not. The vote totals and their demographics are the numbers. There's no denying this although this is the purpose of your posts, absurdly so.

Indeed, my self allotted time to deal with slippery posters who keep falling down by refusing the facts is quickly expiring. So I'm advising you that now that your game has been called out by my posts it and I are not going to go on forever. I have made my point thx.
 
So called independents have for decades pined to smash the two party system. This continues when the only real and actual alternative is the single party state of Trump and His MagaMericans.

Trump does not tolerate any opposition or dissent in any form, never mind a three party system that is impossible since Trump and MagaMericans who are relentlessly destroying the two party system for their single party MAGA state.

Your "independent" long term and assertive advocacy of a multi party democracy is and always has been fantasy or it is downright cynical.
 
I think the current system is completely broken and needs to be overhauled.
 
No,,,it doesnt. Parties define primary rules.
 
You want aurefire way to disenfranchise citizens and voters...tell them who they have to vote for.
 
Tangmo said:
As revealed in your post #58 your posts were all along lying in wait with your 4% of Democrats voting for Trump in '24.
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Not hat you'll believe it, but I didn't look up those sources until after you refused to provide your own. So no lying in wait. Your bias is showing again.


Given that more independents voted for Harris than Trump, and even less voted third party, they only way this works is with a fantasy that even a single independent voting Trump works towards giving the election to Trump. By being independent, some will go to Trump, some to Harris and a few to third party. Independants prefered Harris 53 to 44.


At this rate, you are sounding rather conspiracy theorist on what and who independent voters are.

Tangmo said:
Of course not.

This is why I don't bother trying to argue with people who don't find or accept the facts of votes being counted, how they add up and what they say prima facie. The numbers you can't and won't find are in the link of course.
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Then you can quote that which you support. The problem with people like you is that you want to throw out links (when you even bother to do so), and claim they say something but then refuse to ever quote the part that supports your argument, especially when using long articles. I assert that the numbers are not there, not the ones claiming what you assert. I can't prove that beyond pointing that out. However, yours is the positive claim and can be proven. Thus it's up to you.


And the vote totals show that independents voted for Harris 53 to 44, thus countering your assertion. Further, you have asserted that it is the independants in certain swing states that actually caused Trump to win, and yet your linked article has no state by state breakdown in order to show this point. So no, you have not provided the numbers. Further, simply because there are independent voters who voted Trump, that doesn't mean that it was the independent voters who actually tipped the scales. On top of all of this, just looking a the percentages is no enough. If there were only, for example's sake, 100 independent voters, even 53 to 44 becomes irrelevant. At 100 even 100% voting one way won't make a difference. Hence why the numbers, at the state level, both raw and percentage, are important is determining the validity of your claim


Do as your wish. My second sig line is not exclusive to me. Although I find it interesting that you still seem to assume I am MAGA with the first line being what it is.


Now your are engaging in conflation. And since multi-party democracies are reality in the world currently, are no more of a fantasy than someone from pre-civil war era saying that the south can work slave free. Plenty f things have been claimed fantasy and hen have come true, and this one is already true, even if not in the US.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Nope, which is why primary election laws vary by state.
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To a point they do. Parties determine whether or not they will use an election system for their selection process, and if so, whether they do it themselves or if they let the state do it. If the state is the one doing it, then the state does fet.to say how they will run that election, and if they party don't like it the party can find another way to make their selection. There is no law of constitutional requirement for a political party to use any given state's election system for the choosing of the candidate to be listed on the general election ballot
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Nope, which is why primary election laws vary by state.
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So...thats a choice thing then........

I'll say it again...allowing non party members to have a say in a party nomination process is ****ing stupid.
 
By 2024 so called "independents" in the swing states said fascist dictatorship is fine if it just lowers their household expenses. Which it does not do of course and never was going to do.

This is why I don't bother trying to argue with people who don't find or accept the facts of votes being counted, how they add up and what they say prima facie. The numbers you can't and won't find are in the link I provided -- of course. Yet and despite this such milquetoast posters wave the hand to dismiss the data as "bias" which is obtuse indeed.

The wall of words that continues below the line in your post that says "bias bias bias" reveals and exposes the deep dive independents have made since long ago into themselves and only, the same as Trump. The fact is that so called independents in the swing states put Trump over the top in 2016 to begin the day in and day out horrors of his madness in the WH -- and out of it in between residences -- and the fact is so called independents in the swing states put Trump over the top again in 2024 when the bargain was Trump could have his fascist state in return for lowering household expenses.
 
Should I be able to vote for leadership of the Elks Lodge, or the Rotary Club if I'm not an Elk or a Rotarian?
 
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