ALEC's Stand Yur ground law lets whites kill blacks and walk [W:823]

[Juanita]

Yes'm, I probably would. But so far my son, who is also 17, has better sense than to seek confrontations with strangers in the middle of the night, and attack same without sufficient legal provocation.

Did you listen to any of the testimony? OK let's say that your son went to the 7/11 to buy some junk food...It was raining, he had his hood on, he was talking on the phone to a friend..It was about 7PM......He notices that there is a man following him, he tells his friend that someone is following him...The man confronts him and your son asks why are you following me? Then he hollars "get off me, get off me" drops the phone and gets disconnected....a few minutes later, he is dead......Did "he" seek confrontation?

 

[joko104]

It would appear that Haymaker believes that non-likely-voters aren't people. :roll:

 

[Black Dog]

None of you... I mean NONE OF YOU... have even attempted to answer why a teenage kid on his way home to watch a basketball game on TV-- with Skittles in hand--would attempt to jump a complete stranger. A ****ing creepy ass cracka. WHY? What was his ****ing motive?

I'm waiting...

Well that has nothing to do with anything Goshen or I said. However...

#1 He was not a kid.
#2 He was a 6'2' young man.
#3 17 year old males are not known for being wise. They are known for being full of piss and vinegar.

At 17 I would have done the same thing. I liked fighting, and I was not scared of anything. I imaging Trayvon felt much the same. If I thought someone was following me and they looked like a weak ass white guy, I would have attacked him absolutely and felt justified.

You are asking for speculation as M is dead. No one can answer that question with other than a guess. So it does not matter why, only that the evidence showed he did.

 

[Black Dog]

Did you listen to any of the testimony? OK let's say that your son went to the 7/11 to buy some junk food...It was raining, he had his hood on, he was talking on the phone to a friend..It was about 7PM......He notices that there is a man following him, he tells his friend that someone is following him...The man confronts him and your son asks why are you following me? Then he hollars "get off me, get off me" drops the phone and gets disconnected....a few minutes later, he is dead......Did "he" seek confrontation?

Jeantel says Martin asks Zimmerman "Why you following me?" Zimmerman either answers (depending which version you want to believe): "What are you doing here?" -- or -- "What are you talking about?" Either way -- not a major problem for the defense, but one is more aggressive than the other. Jeantel then says she hears like the phone drops, and people are rolling around on the ground. Someone yells "Get off me. Get off me." She attributes that to Trayvon Martin -- but in her earlier statements to Martin's family, etc. -- she's not that sure.

Nope not a credible witness at all.

 

[Black Dog]

If Zimmerman hit him back, ground pounded him, then Trayvon would be legally allowed to kill him under the same law.

The laws are ignorant.

That is absolutely ridiculous. The only thing stupid here is your statement. And again this has nothing at all to do with anything anyone said.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

And again this has nothing at all to do with anything anyone said.

it's a common theme with her

 

[haymarket]

Considering that PPP is a left wing polling source review these:



I guess this just proves one can find a poll to support their assertion. Now tell me specifically how this solidly substantiates your 'will of the people' assertion...perhaps you are still angry that you were on the wrong side of this RTW issue but I'm sure you don't see it that way.

You miss the point with these dueling polls. There is a difference in the people selecting a person to represent them and the people supporting every vote that legislator casts. There is no definitive WILL OF THE PEOPLE that is reflected in individual votes by individual legislators and those individual votes can and do deviate from the will of the people as measured by surveys and polls.

 

[haymarket]

Where is your proof if this claim? You admitted that you agree he was alone on the sidewalk. So he obviously stood out. It was also dark, raining, and in a neighborhood that had suffered recent break ins. Please tell me where race was a factor? I am asking you for proof.

And before I do this, what exactly constitutes evidence or proof?

And evidence or proof to convince who exactly. You? Me? Every poster here? A jury? Some people but not all people?

Lets go over all this now and agree on an acceptable standard of evidence which proves this now. I am not going to indulge your whim only to have you then keep moving the bar and the goal posts.

 

[SheWolf]

Again. It's known as a style of clothing among other things. There is a more distinct word for whites who dress and look a certain way, they are called wiggers.

just to underline the point, non-African Americans that came up under a search for "thug"

http://www.marklawrencedesign.com/MLD_main_site/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/thug_support.jpg

http://www.tattoostime.com/images/165/thug-life-tattoo-on-full-body.jpg

http://thuglife-clothing.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/4-1.jpg

http://image.shutterstock.com/displ.../stock-photo-thug-pointing-a-gun-74511940.jpg

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1362155380_Celo-Abdi-Thug-Life.jpg


http://files.sharenator.com/80928330_Anatomy_of_an_Urban_Thug-s503x672-46514-580.jpg

http://th07.deviantart.net/fs36/300W/f/2008/283/1/2/Kendime_Hediyem___by_Young_Thug.jpg

http://www.cristyli.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Union-Thug-Barricuda-Brigade.jpg

http://v022o.popscreen.com/Q0hodS1B...-rebell---meine-stadt-ruhrpott-part-35-hq.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kmdxaYNlQ...s/s640/How+to+deal+with+a+Union+Thug+moti.jpg

http://theoriginalwinger.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/slim-thug-paul-wall-bun-b-maliah-michel.jpg

http://global3.memecdn.com/thug-life_o_1021371.jpg

 

[SheWolf]

All Trayvon would have to do is say, he feared for his life. read the laws, or ask Grimm. I had this discussion with him. If two people are in fear of their lives, the laws favor the person who kills.

That is absolutely ridiculous. The only thing stupid here is your statement. And again this has nothing at all to do with anything anyone said.

 

[AmericanbyChoic]

Prove positive that the ALEC inspired Stand you ground laws help whites who kill blacks get off free.

The One Graph That Proves Stand Your Ground Laws Help Jurors Let White Defendants Go Free




The data is clear: Stand Your Ground increases the likelihood of a not-guilty finding, but only when a white person is accused of killing a black person.


These are facts folks based on hard statistics.

The nationwide rape of the country from ALEC continues and few have even heard of the organization. And that is the way they want it.

Oh! Well sure… Of course the graph doesn't show the underlying facts in the cases that its up or down status imparts.

My guess is that those who are of a darker hue, had the unenviable status of NOT having a justifiable reason for their having taken the life of another person.

Which is of course the same fallacious problem that the FOT (Fans of Trayvon) herd is suffering.

Trayvon had set aside his responsibility, intrinsic in his RIGHT to his life, wherein he decided to BEAT on another person, likely feeling that his superior strength faster reaction times and better physical condition was sufficient to impart HIS WILL over that of his fellow man.

Sadly for Trayvon, THAT behavior established that Trayvon forfeited his RIGHT to his life…


Now had Zimmerman not taken HIS responsibility to sustain and otherwise defend his life, through the carrying of a sidearm, it is likely that he would have been subjected to serious injury or death and Trayvon would have been on trial and due to his having unjustifiably used physical, violent force upon Zimmerman, TRAYVON WOULD HAVE BEEN CONVICTED… which would provide for some knucklehead to print up a graph of how it is that BLACK FOLKS get convicted more than white folks. But that's because they are more often guilty.


My philosophy is this: "Don't give no trouble, won't be no trouble". And I think that's fair.

 

[AmericanbyChoic]

All Trayvon would have to do is say, he feared for his life. read the laws, or ask Grimm. I had this discussion with him. If two people are in fear of their lives, the laws favor the person who kills.

NOOoooo….

You can "SAY" you feared for your life ALL you WANT! But if there is no evidence that reasonably establishes that you had sound reason to 'believe' such, then you are MOST LIKELY going to trial and from there, STRAIGHT TO PRISON.

Now, with that said…

With all things being equal, and the altercation happened in a would-be vacuum, with no witnesses and no evidence beyond a corpse and a statement from the individual that prevailed, the issue comes down to credibility.

Which means, who were the players?

If the victim was a black man, with a mile long wrap sheet and the survivor a 12 yr old white girl, with no record of criminality or violent behavior, who HAPPENED to grab her Daddy's side arm… She's in pretty good shape, legally speaking.

Reverse the same circumstance and, well, odds are that Homey's headin' back for that long stretch.

 

[Dickieboy]

You miss the point with these dueling polls. There is a difference in the people selecting a person to represent them and the people supporting every vote that legislator casts. There is no definitive WILL OF THE PEOPLE that is reflected in individual votes by individual legislators and those individual votes can and do deviate from the will of the people as measured by surveys and polls.

Oh, I'm sorry. Did you want to talk about an issue other than RTW (that you brought up with poll evidence) where the 'will of the people' was not substantiated? You mean like PPACA? Was PPACA written by ALEC?

Or perhaps specific to Michigan your position is being defined by the 'butthurt' condition you maintain due to being the minority. I'm sure if the majority had your 'leanings' you would have an opposite view from that exhibited above.

 

[blackjack50]

ALEC's Stand Yur ground law lets whites kill blacks and walk

And before I do this, what exactly constitutes evidence or proof?

And evidence or proof to convince who exactly. You? Me? Every poster here? A jury? Some people but not all people?

Lets go over all this now and agree on an acceptable standard of evidence which proves this now. I am not going to indulge your whim only to have you then keep moving the bar and the goal posts.

Convince me of course. I would be curious to find out what is evidence enough for you. I find it odd that it would even need to be defined "whose version" of racism. That right there says we are starting off on very weak footing for Zimmerman to be accused of racism. You know. Given that Trayvon was the only one outside at that time in that place.

 

[MaggieD]

there is no doubt about it that is was a factor.

Young black men were committing crimes in the neighborhood. In that respect, race may have been a factor. What is wrong with that?

 

[haymarket]

Oh! Well sure… Of course the graph doesn't show the underlying facts in the cases that its up or down status imparts.

My guess is that those who are of a darker hue, had the unenviable status of NOT having a justifiable reason for their having taken the life of another person.

Which is of course the same fallacious problem that the FOT (Fans of Trayvon) herd is suffering.

Trayvon had set aside his responsibility, intrinsic in his RIGHT to his life, wherein he decided to BEAT on another person, likely feeling that his superior strength faster reaction times and better physical condition was sufficient to impart HIS WILL over that of his fellow man.

Sadly for Trayvon, THAT behavior established that Trayvon forfeited his RIGHT to his life…


Now had Zimmerman not taken HIS responsibility to sustain and otherwise defend his life, through the carrying of a sidearm, it is likely that he would have been subjected to serious injury or death and Trayvon would have been on trial and due to his having unjustifiably used physical, violent force upon Zimmerman, TRAYVON WOULD HAVE BEEN CONVICTED… which would provide for some knucklehead to print up a graph of how it is that BLACK FOLKS get convicted more than white folks. But that's because they are more often guilty.


My philosophy is this: "Don't give no trouble, won't be no trouble". And I think that's fair.

So your explanation is that the statistics can be explained by reasons which work for the white defendants and against the black defendants in case after case after case?

 

[haymarket]

Oh, I'm sorry. Did you want to talk about an issue other than RTW (that you brought up with poll evidence) where the 'will of the people' was not substantiated? You mean like PPACA? Was PPACA written by ALEC?

Or perhaps specific to Michigan your position is being defined by the 'butthurt' condition you maintain due to being the minority. I'm sure if the majority had your 'leanings' you would have an opposite view from that exhibited above.

Again, your desire to hijack the thread and talk about the details of something else deviates from the main point: that there is a difference in a person being elected by the people and in every vote of that legislator reflecting the will and desire and support of the people. That is imply a reality of the system we have.

 

[haymarket]

Convince me of course. I would be curious to find out what is evidence enough for you. I find it odd that it would even need to be defined "whose version" of racism. That right there says we are starting off on very weak footing for Zimmerman to be accused of racism. You know. Given that Trayvon was the only one outside at that time in that place.

It matters little what is evidence for me if you do not accept it since you laid down the challenge.

I will be happy to present it. Simply tell me what your standard is and we will see if we can agree on that.

 

[haymarket]

Young black men were committing crimes in the neighborhood. In that respect, race may have been a factor. What is wrong with that?

You would have to ask somebody who rejects the very thought of it. I have said that race was a factor.

 

[MaggieD]

You would have to ask somebody who rejects the very thought of it. I have said that race was a factor.

There is a difference between "race was a factor" and George Zimmerman was a racist. Actually, of course, we don't know when Zimmerman even determined the race of Trayvon Martin -- before he made the call or while he was on the line. *shrug*

 

[haymarket]

There is a difference between "race was a factor" and George Zimmerman was a racist. Actually, of course, we don't know when Zimmerman even determined the race of Trayvon Martin -- before he made the call or while he was on the line. *shrug*

I agree that there is a difference. I have stated on record here that I do not think Zimmerman was a racist in the mold of the stereotypical Klan or white supremacist.

 

[Dickieboy]

Again, your desire to hijack the thread and talk about the details of something else deviates from the main point: that there is a difference in a person being elected by the people and in every vote of that legislator reflecting the will and desire and support of the people. That is imply a reality of the system we have.

ME??? YOU were the one who brought up RTW! But of course it is your thread but back to the point why did these SYG laws that were prepared by that 'evil ALEC' get passed by Democrats if they are the legislative arm of the Republicans?

 

[haymarket]

ME??? YOU were the one who brought up RTW! But of course it is your thread but back to the point why did these SYG laws that were prepared by that 'evil ALEC' get passed by Democrats if they are the legislative arm of the Republicans?

I DID NOT bring up right to work to debate the topic. I simply used it as an example where the will of the people was not done in that vote by the legislature.

And I have already said that Democrats cast bad votes also. Sometimes even for ALEC supported bills.

 

[blackjack50]

ALEC's Stand Yur ground law lets whites kill blacks and walk

It matters little what is evidence for me if you do not accept it since you laid down the challenge.

I will be happy to present it. Simply tell me what your standard is and we will see if we can agree on that.

This twisting tells me that you don't have any proof of racism. All you have is Zimmerman was light skin and Trayvon was dark skin. Must have been racism huh?

 

[VanceMack]

Interestingly enough...it appears that after actually examining the state statistics on SYG in Florida, blacks actually BENEFIT disproportionately at a rate of 2-1 by population demographics by use of and defense under the SYG laws. Huh...go figure. (keeping in mind that SYG was NOT USED as a defense in the Martin/Zimmerman case)

Stand your ground law, Trayvon Martin and a shocking legacy | Tampa Bay Times
Florida blacks benefit from Florida 'Stand Your Ground' | The Daily Caller