Thanks, Bod, but once again we'll have to disagree. SERIOUSLY. I'm not a ****ing dunce.
First of all, I was responding to a person who implied that if someone goes to meetings for 30 years, AA is a crutch because they're not "strong." I don't agree. Lots of reasons to go to meetings, and there are lots of incredibly strong and inspiring people in AA, successful outside AA, etc.
Second, if it's a "crutch" so what? Obviously those who attend even 1 meeting voluntarily have tried to quit 'on their own' and failed. If they're not manly enough to white knuckle it and need some help. what's the problem? It's sort of the general attitude in this country on mental health in general - if you need some help, you're not "strong" or something. It's a wrong headed way to look at it IMO. Yes, some people cannot just white knuckle an addiction that actually is potentially fatal if self treated. Withdrawal is a medical event that requires medical supervision, and getting over the physical addiction that makes quitting a medical event is damn hard and some people do need help. They're not some kind of failed human being because of it. Some people need the support of others, and often those who attend AA do not have support anywhere else.
My current girlfriend dragged me to an AA meeting tonight. To be honest, I've never heard so much BS in my entire life. Alcoholism a disease? *Scoff* In my opinion, it's very simple - don't drink and you won't become a drunken ***h***e. More specifically, ever heard of the "steering wheel" concept? Keep your hands on the wheel and don't turn into those convenience store parking lots. It's that simple.
Furthermore, these people (cult members - from my perspective) say that if you don't work the 12 steps, you will either die, go to jail or a mental institution. Guess what? I left AA in a huff over 20 years ago and still am alive, happy and free. Furthermore, all my old AA "friends" are either dead (most of them are dead - young or old at the time I knew them), in prison or in mental hospitals. I have News: AA does not work and is nothing more than a cult! And I'm living proof of that, being that I'm still around :lol: - if my niece or another family member ever has any problems with alcohol/drugs, the last thing I'm doing is sending them to AA.
AA - what a waste of time. I spent two or three years going to them stupid meetings, working the steps, serving on committees, sponsoring others - I found AA at 19 and left at 23 in disgust (haven't been back since until tonight).
I couldn't take it any longer: When it came my turn to share in the meeting, I said just about everything I just posted. You should have seen the looks on their faces. :lol::lol::lol:
AA - A Big thumbs down and screw those people.
It sounds to me like you have a personal axe to grind and need to lay off a program that legitimately helps other people.
All good and not every case is the same but in my experience the strength is already within the individual. The group, like a teacher, can't do anything without the student.
No, not every case is the same.
And I'm clearly aware of my role in my own sobriety...but what is disturbing to me is that you (and some others) find the utility of AA to be a personal weakness because you (and others) see it as a cult. And you believe that I (and tens of thousands of others ) have surely been sucker-punched by a religious cult. Right?
Sorry, that's not how it happened. Nor is how it worked(s) for me. And I can tell you that there are many, many agnostics and atheists in AA who have greatly benefited from the "principles" within the program. In fact there is an Atheist AA group in Austin.
Years ago I tried to find an Atheist AA group that I became aware of via a notice posted in the coffee room of a regular AA group. But when I went to the address shown on the card, it was among several small office spaces, which were being remodeled. There was no sign saying where they were temporarily holding meetings.
I ask some people in a regular group (which is where I saw a card about the Atheist group) if anyone knew where the group had moved to. The reply was, "Don't know, we heard God killed'em all". HA ****ING HA! It was funny to them, but not so funny to me.
It's a big ass - diverse world, Bod. Things aren't always as they appear to be. And as always..all is good.
Thanks...
I am a black and white guy generally when I talk. I say what I mean and I mean what I say... don't read into it like you apparently have.
I said nothing of a personal weakness or that AA doesn't help.
The crutch is "needing" a group in the first place.
It is a religion. There are those that need that cult brotherhood in order to find strength......... because they are weak. Much the same as religion helps people "be kind to others" when that ability is already within them.
You know, guys, when I said what I said in my OP to that AA group last week - that took guts (so I was told).
I went back the next day (gasp) to the same meeting place - they said that took more guts. For a split second I thought they were going to kill me. Then, they laughed and we all shared hugs. You see, that's what AA is like - very forgiving, understanding and supportive. On the one hand, I was wrong to start this thread and I apologize deeply for that. However, after reading through the thread - there have been some awesome replies here and insight. If nothing else, starting this thread got people thinking (including myself). One AA individual in this thread (whom I won't mention) is now my best friend on this forum. He is the one whom convinced me to go back to that meeting. AND I'm glad I did, for AA is saving my life, one day at a time. So, thanks DP - for if I had never found this forum, I would have never started this thread and would never have met said friend and would never have gone back to AA. It can be argued that DP saved my life (can you believe that, LOL).
So thanks to all whom have responded - even if I don't always agree with everyone, I always learn something. THAT's what's important.
The following 2 quotes are yours, Bod...
Did I misunderstand the the above? Can you imagine what I've drawn from that post?
And what about this post ^^^^^^^^^^ Am I not catching the meaning?
You're only about the thousandth person - who believes as you do - who has said everything that you've pretty said to me and others in this thread. Groovy. That's how you perceive AA. I'm sure you have more reasons that you've probably stated for believing such.
BUT EVEN STILL BOD...all is good my friend. It's a big ass world and it is diverse. You have your very own special diversities about you, too. But its okay.
The first is about need, yes. Need is not bad.
Even the second is not bad. Yes, I admit I said weak but I did not mean it negatively really... just that they can't find that strength in themselves WHEN IT IS.
Just pull yourself up by the old bootstraps, huh? What a simple world you must have experienced. I'm envious. And your opinions are noted. Thanks.
Maybe... maybe not. I do know that people have more strength than they give themselves credit for in general.
Okay...thanks...
No need to try to blow me off...
I'm not, Bod. You've made your position clear. I get it. Really...
I am a black and white guy generally when I talk. I say what I mean and I mean what I say... don't read into it like you apparently have.
I said nothing of a personal weakness or that AA doesn't help.
I guess that I don't get why you disagree... all good though.
It's no big deal but you actually did, and I quote: "There are those that need that cult brotherhood in order to find strength because they are weak." And no one uses the term "crutch" in a positive light.
And sure, it's ultimately up to the individual to make the changes needed to live sober, but your teacher analogy was perfect - we've all hopefully been lucky enough to have had a teacher that changed our lives. Doesn't mean we didn't have to do the work, study, etc. But for some of us, it would be an act of hubris to pretend that we did it on our own - we didn't.
Maybe we're splitting words here. Not sure. It's all good though. I'm happy for anyone who found a way, doesn't matter which one.
You know, guys, when I said what I said in my OP to that AA group last week - that took guts (so I was told).
I went back the next day (gasp) to the same meeting place - they said that took more guts. For a split second I thought they were going to kill me. Then, they laughed and we all shared hugs. You see, that's what AA is like - very forgiving, understanding and supportive. On the one hand, I was wrong to start this thread and I apologize deeply for that. However, after reading through the thread - there have been some awesome replies here and insight. If nothing else, starting this thread got people thinking (including myself). One AA individual in this thread (whom I won't mention) is now my best friend on this forum. He is the one whom convinced me to go back to that meeting. AND I'm glad I did, for AA is saving my life, one day at a time. So, thanks DP - for if I had never found this forum, I would have never started this thread and would never have met said friend and would never have gone back to AA. It can be argued that DP saved my life (can you believe that, LOL).
So thanks to all whom have responded - even if I don't always agree with everyone, I always learn something. THAT's what's important.
I can clearly see why you don't get why I disagree. This is a seriously complex issue that you aren't connect to. That's for starters. But really, Bod, it doesn't matter.
And of course its all good. I've said in my past few posts...it really is all good.
But what I'm really happy about is...that you don't have to live with being alcoholic. That's way more important. Right?
For all you know I was an alcoholic that found inner strength to just drink casually at times and not go over board the AA way... all or nothing.
Balance is what life is about...
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