Al Jazeera Publishes Updated List of Gaza Dead [W:20]

[CJ 2.0]

Analysis Confirms Israel Targeting Combatants

The casualties are being published by Al-Jazeera, which is I'm pretty sure not an Israeli government mouthpiece.

The analysis showed that 82% of the dead were men, and 50 per cent of them were between 18 and 28 years old, and 66 per cent between 18 and 38.

Add onto that the various teens fighting for Hamas (including at least one that snuck through a tunnel to try to murder civilians) and the early teen kids sent as suicide bombers over the last few days, and a pretty clear picture emerges of Israel doing a hell of a job trying to keep force targeted at Hamas (all the while Hamas tries to keep those civilians in the way while targeting Israeli civilians).

Here's the chart (which I have no idea how to actually embed in a post):

http://www.algemeiner.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/dead-1.jpg

 

[ido_]

It was reported today that one of the terrorists who invaded Israel via a tunnel and killed 4 soldiers yesterday morning is laying injured in beer sheba hospital, he is 16 years old. Makes you wander how many of those Palestinians count as children are actually innocent.

 

[CJ 2.0]

It was reported today that one of the terrorists who invaded Israel via a tunnel and killed 4 soldiers yesterday morning is laying injured in beer sheba hospital, he is 16 years old. Makes you wander how many of those Palestinians count as children are actually innocent.

I'm sure some are, but definitely not all. And of course not all 18-39 year old male casualties are terrorists either.

But these numbers are not to argue that the Palestinains have no civilian casualties. They merely illustrate (1) the numbers put out so far by the Palestinians and their supporters of Palestinian casualties are complete BS (I saw a referece from one of our posters here to 200 child civilian deaths) and (2) Israel is clearly not acting "indiscriminately" and is clearly doing an excellent job to minimize casualties in an environemtn where the Palestinians sicne day 1 have been open about using the population as human shields.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Half the men meet your initial "target criteria" which means half do not, then some of those who meet the criteria are not terrorists, meaning that more than half of the Palestinian dead are innocent victims of genocide.

 

[CJ 2.0]

Half the men meet your initial "target criteria" which means half do not, then some of those who meet the criteria are not terrorists, meaning that more than half of the Palestinian dead are innocent victims of genocide.

Wow.

None of that makes any sense at all.

Want a mulligan on that?

incidentally, you may have made logicians' heads explode world-wide with that one.

 

[washunut]

Wow.

None of that makes any sense at all.

Want a mulligan on that?

incidentally, you may have made logicians' heads explode world-wide with that one.

Many logical people have come to stop reading his rants.

 

[mbig]

Analysis Confirms Israel Targeting Combatants

The casualties are being published by Al-Jazeera, which is I'm pretty sure not an Israeli government mouthpiece.

The analysis showed that 82% of the dead were men, and 50% of them were between 18 and 28 years old, and 66% between 18 and 38.

Add onto that the various teens fighting for Hamas (including at least one that snuck through a tunnel to try to murder civilians) and the early teen kids sent as suicide bombers over the last few days, and a pretty clear picture emerges of Israel doing a hell of a job trying to keep force targeted at Hamas (all the while Hamas tries to keep those civilians in the way while targeting Israeli civilians).

Here's the chart (which I have no idea how to actually embed in a post):

http://www.algemeiner.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/dead-1.jpg

Thanks for the chart.
I remember in the 2000 Intifada, the 'Child' casualties/dead were oft mentioned.
Turned out a large majority of the children' were Boys 12-17 engaged in, or out in, the fighting.

Slightly different now, though boys remain a large majority of the 'Children'.
This would be CONTRARY to indiscriminate/in-home killing which would yield Equal male/female numbers.. as it would across the spectrum.

Also against the 'indiscriminate' would be the fact that app 50% of Gaza is 17 or under, but they are, from what I can gather, 10% of the casualties. And some of them are males in their mid teens engaged in the fighting.

Also contrary to 'indisciminate' would be the Large majority (82%) were Males overall.

I'll post the graphic for you.
(Just put the link for it, if it's a JPG, which it is, for it between

)

 

[mbig]

Half the men meet your initial "target criteria" which means half do not, then some of those who meet the criteria are not terrorists, meaning that more than half of the Palestinian dead are innocent victims of Genocide.

And this is Not only Grotesquely Untrue, but an unfortunate breach on your part.

 

[Mr.Objective]

Half the men meet your initial "target criteria" which means half do not, then some of those who meet the criteria are not terrorists, meaning that more than half of the Palestinian dead are innocent victims of genocide.

I'm not sure you are aware what is the meaning of genocide..
Genocide is the systematic destruction of all or part of a racial, ethnic, religious or national group via the (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; or (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

I'll start by saying that calling it a genocide is a total BS.
A. I don't see any systematic destruction of Palestinians. they are occupied, by some definitions, but in no way destructed. No one is systematically killing them, because if so and with all the force Israel has, Israel is doing a really bad job.
B. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group - As you probably never been in the west bank, life there isn't good, because of security check-points but it is surely not a genocide.
C. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part - Israel gives the Palestinians electricity, water, and hundreds of food and medicine trucks on a daily basis even now, during a war they provide the population there. It takes injured Palestinians into its hospitals. So it doesn't look like Israel inflicts on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction.
D. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group - I won't even bother to say anything about it.
E. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group - I won't even bother to say anything about it.

 

[PeteEU]

Analysis Confirms Israel Targeting Combatants

The casualties are being published by Al-Jazeera, which is I'm pretty sure not an Israeli government mouthpiece.

The analysis showed that 82% of the dead were men, and 50 per cent of them were between 18 and 28 years old, and 66 per cent between 18 and 38.

Add onto that the various teens fighting for Hamas (including at least one that snuck through a tunnel to try to murder civilians) and the early teen kids sent as suicide bombers over the last few days, and a pretty clear picture emerges of Israel doing a hell of a job trying to keep force targeted at Hamas (all the while Hamas tries to keep those civilians in the way while targeting Israeli civilians).

Here's the chart (which I have no idea how to actually embed in a post):

http://www.algemeiner.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/dead-1.jpg

So in other words, you are saying that all males from 15 to 68 are Hamas fighters?

 

[CJ 2.0]

So in other words, you are saying that all males from 15 to 68 are Hamas fighters?

Really? Where do I say that?

Can ANYONE who is anti-Israel here come up with a coherent argument on this? I know we are dealing with a baseline of facts here, but come on. The best we can do is misrepresent that I am saying that every male aged 15-68 are fighters?

Fact is that if Israel's actions were "indiscriminate", the casualty breakdown would not look like this:



it would look like Israeli civilian casualties from the various Palestinian wars against Israel's civilians:



That's from the Palestinians' terror war against Israel's civilians that they launched in 2000 rather than accepting independence on virtually all of the WB and Gaza.

Israel is doing what it needs to do to defend its citizens. it is doing it in a responsible way, and anti-Israel propaganda about indiscriminate killing and all the rest is just anti-Israel BS propaganda.

I know you don't like being called out on it, but facts are facts. The Palestinians are fighting a war whose very essence is a war crime and whose prime tactics are crimes against humanity. Israel is defending its civilians in a way that is proportionate and responsible and does what it can to minimize the number of times the Palestinians successfgully create a human shield casualty so that people like you can make arguments like this.

 

[L0neW0lf]

about 70% to 80% of those killed are civilians according to the UN, I trust the UN more than I do a "reader of a blog" which your source cites.

Here's some pictures;



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...tinian-children-killed-by-Israeli-forces.html

 

[CJ 2.0]

about 70% to 80% of those killed are civilians according to the UN, I trust the UN more than I do a "reader of a blog" which your source cites.

yes, yes. The UN relies on reports from hamas controlled Palestinian organs. When it is not giving Hamas its rockets back.

Israel is doing a good job. The numbers are making this very, very clear.

I know it makes things difficult for people who want to leverage human shield casualties for propaganda arguments in support of Hamas. I guess Israel should apologize for that too.

 

[L0neW0lf]

Israel is doing a good job.

Yes killing more than a hundred child is a job well done, said no decent human being ever.
But then again I don't think anyone should expect more from a guy who started a thread calling for mass murder of a million and half people.

 

[CJ 2.0]

Yes killing more than a hundred child is a job well done, said no decent human being ever.
But then again I don't think anyone should expect more from a guy who started a thread calling for mass murder of a million and half people.

Who did that?

In any event, you can see the stats for yourself, and you can acknowledge that the folks you support are purposely using civilians as human shields.

Or not. Up to you. In any event, the IDF will continue to do their job with honour and integrity, while Hamas will continue to commit war crimes with everything that they do. You can align with then and seek to help them in their propaganda war (doing exactly what you are doing with their dead human shields) all you like. But that's on you

 

[ido_]

about 70% to 80% of those killed are civilians according to the UN, I trust the UN more than I do a "reader of a blog" which your source cites.

IDF Spokesman said yesterday at least 270 dead are militants.
It still leaves a high percentage of civilian casualties, but you are determining that IDF is indiscriminating in its attacks by a ratio of combatant-non combatant deaths rather than number of targets attacked (3250) to civilian deaths. All of Hamas officials and military leadership is currently underground, and Israel is mostly targeting Hamas infrastructure, not personal.

Since the ground invasion started we see a change in the combatant-non combatant ratio, 180 terrorists dead, as Hamas are finally coming out of their holes.

 

[gunner]

So in other words, you are saying that all males from 15 to 68 are Hamas fighters?

How the hell did you come up with that? I think he quantified the casualties very well.

Paul

 

[gunner]

about 70% to 80% of those killed are civilians according to the UN, I trust the UN more than I do a "reader of a blog" which your source cites.

Here's some pictures;



Revealed: the Palestinian children killed by Israeli forces - Telegraph

Arguably, it is hard to look at some of those figures (age) and apply 'children' in the 'normative' sense of the word. What is undisputable, Hamas enlist fighters of all ages and if we were looking at these figures, say, for 'traffic accidents' in some Western country then you could apply 'children' because it would be fully in-line with the normative sense of the word. Unfortunately, this conflict all but takes away the innocence of childhood--in all manner of ways, very sad, but true.

Paul

 

[PeteEU]

Really? Where do I say that?

Well you are the one bringing up the statistics from a source that has supposedly analysed it, and a source that basically tries to link all males to Hamas it seems.

Can ANYONE who is anti-Israel here come up with a coherent argument on this? I know we are dealing with a baseline of facts here, but come on. The best we can do is misrepresent that I am saying that every male aged 15-68 are fighters?

Then why gloat about that most killed are male? The only reason is to justify the attacks, and say "see we are not killing randomly, but targeting terrorists... who all are male of course, and the statistics prove that".

it would look like Israeli civilian casualties from the various Palestinian wars against Israel's civilians:

View attachment 67170084

Based on what statistics and over what time frame.... this graph means absolutely nothing without context.

That's from the Palestinians' terror war against Israel's civilians that they launched in 2000 rather than accepting independence on virtually all of the WB and Gaza.

LOL Israel would NEVER give Gaza and the WB full independence.. why the hell do you think the Palestinians are pissed? Israel has kept Gaza under siege since the day they left Gaza. Gaza should be "independent" but has been under blockade since day one. The WB is under military rule basically despite Israel claiming the PA is in charge.. that is horse****.

Israel is doing what it needs to do to defend its citizens. it is doing it in a responsible way, and anti-Israel propaganda about indiscriminate killing and all the rest is just anti-Israel BS propaganda.

No it is not. It is creating more hatred towards it and creating more terrorists. You will never get rid of terrorists by attacking civilians and killing people. And there is indiscriminate killing when you shell civilian areas.

I know you don't like being called out on it, but facts are facts. The Palestinians are fighting a war whose very essence is a war crime and whose prime tactics are crimes against humanity. Israel is defending its civilians in a way that is proportionate and responsible and does what it can to minimize the number of times the Palestinians successfgully create a human shield casualty so that people like you can make arguments like this.

These are not facts.. this is propaganda and so far from facts that is laughable. The fact that you are claiming that the Palestinian tactics are a crime against humanity is laughable... guess who they are copying?

Palestinians are fighting a war of independence. They have been under the jack boot of Israel for decades and have had enough. Their tactics might be disgusting, but ultimately the Israeli policy of oppression has driven them to this desperation. I dont in any way condone the violence against Israel, but I do understand why they are fighting back. You clearly dont understand why people who live under military rule and are treated like stray dogs.. understand why they are fighting back.

 

[Serenity]

Moderator's Warning:

Moved to "Israel/Palestine/Hamas political debate and discussion specific to the current military activity" sub-forum.

 

[The Mark]

about 70% to 80% of those killed are civilians according to the UN, I trust the UN more than I do a "reader of a blog" which your source cites.

The UN is a political organization.

I don't trust it to accurately convey any information whatsoever, unless said information supports it's political goals.