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Airline bans Bibles to avoid offending Muslims

ANAV

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A British airline has banned Bibles, crucifixes, and Teddy Bears from flight to Saudi Arabia. But the most outrageous thing is that they mandate female flight attendants to walk behind males and wear a abaya (that Muslim garb that covers women from head to toe).

They don't want to offend the Muslims with Christian religious symbols, but don't take away my Teddy Bear.

I suppose a privately owned company enforce its own policies, but forcing another religion on women (or anybody) is just wrong. They are saying "You cannot support the God you worship, but you must follow the degrading practices of a religion that you do not practice."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48269
 

aps

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ANAV said:
A British airline has banned Bibles, crucifixes, and Teddy Bears from flight to Saudi Arabia. But the most outrageous thing is that they mandate female flight attendants to walk behind males and wear a abaya (that Muslim garb that covers women from head to toe).

They don't want to offend the Muslims with Christian religious symbols, but don't take away my Teddy Bear.

I suppose a privately owned company enforce its own policies, but forcing another religion on women (or anybody) is just wrong. They are saying "You cannot support the God you worship, but you must follow the degrading practices of a religion that you do not practice."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48269
That is just plain nuts. Well, we know which customers that they are catering to. They obviously get lots of $$ from Muslims for them to give this much importance to their concerns. Unbelievable.
 

vergiss

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Okay, problems:

1. WorldNetDaily is about as credible as Newsmax - it's all "Islam is evil" this and "So-and-so is a traitor" that. I'm not going to rely on it any more than I would the Green Left Weekly.

2. An online search of the story shows that no other news outlets have reported it.

If it's true... then it's stupid. However, I'm going to withhold my comments until we know if it's actually true or not.
 

aps

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vergiss said:
Okay, problems:

1. WorldNetDaily is about as credible as Newsmax - it's all "Islam is evil" this and "So-and-so is a traitor" that. I'm not going to rely on it any more than I would the Green Left Weekly.

2. An online search of the story shows that no other news outlets have reported it.

If it's true... then it's stupid. However, I'm going to withhold my comments until we know if it's actually true or not.
LOL I should have known that the story is too outrageous to be credible. If you find the story in a more credible source, post it. I withdraw my above opinion and concur with vergiss. ;)
 

mixedmedia

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I can't find anything else on this story, either, but, since the story specifically states that they are to don the abaya upon disembarking from the aircraft, I think it bears mentioning that until 2002, when a female member of the Air Force filed a lawsuit against the Pentagon, females serving in the US military at the Prince Sultan Air Base in Saudi Arabia were required to wear the abaya when off-base. They are still "strongly encouraged" to do so.

http://www.libertymagazine.org/article/articleview/28/1/55/
 

TimmyBoy

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Their is alot of propaganda and disinformation about the Islamic World. With all the disinformation and propaganda about Islam in the West, one would be led to believe that Islam teaches terrorism is ok, sucide is ok and that women have no rights. But this is disinformation.
 
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aps said:
LOL I should have known that the story is too outrageous to be credible. If you find the story in a more credible source, post it. I withdraw my above opinion and concur with vergiss. ;)
How can you withdraw an opinion? Were you be untruthful before? Was it not your opinion before? I agree that Worldnetdaily is skewed, but you still posted your genuine thoughts, did you not?
 

Caine

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I searched the Airline in Question's website and found absolutely nothing.

In fact, for "Long Haul" flights, they provide children under 3 years old with a teddy bear.
 

Axismaster

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mixedmedia said:
I can't find anything else on this story, either, but, since the story specifically states that they are to don the abaya upon disembarking from the aircraft, I think it bears mentioning that until 2002, when a female member of the Air Force filed a lawsuit against the Pentagon, females serving in the US military at the Prince Sultan Air Base in Saudi Arabia were required to wear the abaya when off-base. They are still "strongly encouraged" to do so.

http://www.libertymagazine.org/article/articleview/28/1/55/
Howcome you liberals just flip this one off your shoulders, but if it were the other way around, you would be raging about it.
 
H

hipsterdufus

You know, if you took out every reference in the Bible of Jesus wanting to help the poor, you would have just about enough room to fit Rush Limbaugh's Oxyontin in the empty shell. :mrgreen:
 

mixedmedia

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Axismaster said:
Howcome you liberals just flip this one off your shoulders, but if it were the other way around, you would be raging about it.
The other way around meaning what? I am not agreeing with this being imposed on women.
 

Stace

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ANAV said:
A British airline has banned Bibles, crucifixes, and Teddy Bears from flight to Saudi Arabia. But the most outrageous thing is that they mandate female flight attendants to walk behind males and wear a abaya (that Muslim garb that covers women from head to toe).

They don't want to offend the Muslims with Christian religious symbols, but don't take away my Teddy Bear.

I suppose a privately owned company enforce its own policies, but forcing another religion on women (or anybody) is just wrong. They are saying "You cannot support the God you worship, but you must follow the degrading practices of a religion that you do not practice."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48269
I agree that forcing a religion on someone is wrong....*ahem*....but your whole little "degrading" thing there at the end? Perhaps we as Americans might find it degrading, but obviously, the Muslims do not. I'm sure they find many things about Christianity degrading as well. Tha abaya is a part of their culture, not JUST their religion. Just because it's different from what we do, that doesn't make it wrong.
 

Blind man

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Stace said:
I agree that forcing a religion on someone is wrong....*ahem*....but your whole little "degrading" thing there at the end? Perhaps we as Americans might find it degrading, but obviously, the Muslims do not. I'm sure they find many things about Christianity degrading as well. Tha abaya is a part of their culture, not JUST their religion. Just because it's different from what we do, that doesn't make it wrong.
um, Islam DOES degrade women in relationship to men. That's just a fact of semantics. The term degrade means

To lower in moral or intellectual character; debase.
To reduce in worth or value: degrade a currency.
To impair in physical structure or function.

Women in the Muslim world DON'T have the same respect mentally as men. That's why men run the businesses, because women can't be "trusted" to do so effectively.

Women ARE seen to have less value. Just look at the fathers reaction when a baby boy is born versus a baby girl. The girls status is degraded in relationship to the boys.

And physically women are not allowed to engage in the same activities as men.

These are facts. I can't help it if you find them uncomfortable but they do represent a reality of the Muslim world.
 

shuamort

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Here's a non-WND website that corroborates:
Air crew ordered not to wear crucifixes on flights to Saudi

Air crew on the only British airline that flies to Saudi Arabia have been told not to wear crucifixes or St Christopher medals on flights there so as not to offend the country's Muslims.

Stewardesses at BMI have also been told to cover themselves in the long abaya robes that Saudi women have to wear in public before they disembark in the capital Riyadh. In some instances, they are also advised to wear a headscarf.

The airline insists that the rules are part of its "obligation" to "respect the customs" of Saudi Arabia, a strictly conservative Muslim kingdom.

However, one unnamed BMI employee told a Sunday newspaper: "It's outrageous that we must respect their beliefs but they're not prepared to respect ours. BMI are asking too much of their staff on this one.
=
I'm not showing info about the teddy bears though.
 

shuamort

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Saudi Arabia is a rather dangerous place to be a non-Muslim. It's worse to be a Christian. Lookie here:
Christian residents of the kingdom were not permitted any public display of their faith. The government did not allow churches of any Christian denomination to occupy public space, in sharp contrast to the large number of churches allowed in nearby Dubai. Asian and African Christians suspected of proselytizing Saudi Muslims were arrested and imprisoned in harsh conditions, and pressured to convert to Islam as a condition of release. Two U.S.-based groups, International Christian Concern and Middle East Concern, publicized the arrest and detention between July and September 2001 in Jeddah of eleven foreign nationals--from India, Eritrea, Ethiopia, and the Philippines. They reportedly were held for practicing their religion in their homes. One of them, Dennis Moreno-Lacalla, a Filipino who worked in the kingdom for sixteen years, was arrested in Jeddah in August 2001 and held without charge until his release seven months later. He said that he witnessed the flogging of three Ethiopian Christians--Tinsaie Gizachew, Bahru Menguistu, and Gebeyahu Tafera--in January 2002, reporting that the men were "kicked, suspended with chains, and lashed 80 times with a steel rod cable about one inch in diameter," punishment that left them bleeding and in severe pain.
Now, does it make sense to you that an airline warn these folks not to wear their religion on their sleeve if they should choose this route? Yes, it does to me. I'm thinking that this is less about sensitivity to the Muslim faith and more about the CYA ideal of a corporation not wanting the high insurance premiums of having their flight crew subjected to the problems elucidated in my source. The airline is attempting to mitigate the problems before they get worse. And considering that BMI just starting flying to Riyadh a couple of months ago (and are the only British airline to do so), they're attempting to insure a monopoly.
 

Stace

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Blind man said:
um, Islam DOES degrade women in relationship to men. That's just a fact of semantics. The term degrade means

To lower in moral or intellectual character; debase.
To reduce in worth or value: degrade a currency.
To impair in physical structure or function.

Women in the Muslim world DON'T have the same respect mentally as men. That's why men run the businesses, because women can't be "trusted" to do so effectively.

Women ARE seen to have less value. Just look at the fathers reaction when a baby boy is born versus a baby girl. The girls status is degraded in relationship to the boys.

And physically women are not allowed to engage in the same activities as men.

These are facts. I can't help it if you find them uncomfortable but they do represent a reality of the Muslim world.
Again, even by textbook definition standards, that is their culture and is not considered to be degrading, it is the norm. Hell, our country was the same way for many years, making women out to be lesser individuals, and still does to a certain extent, though we at least don't have to completely cover ourselves....
 

shuamort

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Stace said:
Again, even by textbook definition standards, that is their culture and is not considered to be degrading, it is the norm. Hell, our country was the same way for many years, making women out to be lesser individuals, and still does to a certain extent, though we at least don't have to completely cover ourselves....
That brings up an interesting (and probably unintentional) point. Are women being degraded by the government because they can't let their titties be shown in public whereas men can?
 

Stace

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shuamort said:
That brings up an interesting (and probably unintentional) point. Are women being degraded by the government because they can't let their titties be shown in public whereas men can?
Dude, we can't even breastfeed in public anymore as far as some people are concerned, even if everything is still covered up.....it's ridiculous!
 

Caine

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Blind man said:
um, Islam DOES degrade women in relationship to men. That's just a fact of semantics. The term degrade means

To lower in moral or intellectual character; debase.
To reduce in worth or value: degrade a currency.
To impair in physical structure or function.

Women in the Muslim world DON'T have the same respect mentally as men. That's why men run the businesses, because women can't be "trusted" to do so effectively.

Women ARE seen to have less value. Just look at the fathers reaction when a baby boy is born versus a baby girl. The girls status is degraded in relationship to the boys.

And physically women are not allowed to engage in the same activities as men.

These are facts. I can't help it if you find them uncomfortable but they do represent a reality of the Muslim world.
A. Its a part of thier religious culture. Orthodox Jews are still the same way, to an extent, that women are not held as high as men (granted I don't think they have to be all covered up like Islam). Actually, only Reform Judaism allows women to be entirely equal to men in thier religious practice, to include being allowed to be clergy members.
B. The bible, in fact, shows a favorable position towards Men over Women. So why would Islam try to be any different?
C. Catholic Women are not held to equal standards when it comes to being members of Clergy, Nun's are not held to as high respect as Priests. I don't know any Female Popes....
D. Women were not treated as equally as men ANYWHERE, until the liberalism movement started in America. And im not talking about libralism as we know it now.

I dont understand why so many of my fellow Americans think that the rest of the world should be just like us. Thats arrogant, I believe that every nation and every culture should be exactly the way it works and the way the people like it.

Its a part of thier religious beliefs. I have neighboors who are Islamic. The wife wears the full body coverings to services on Friday Nights. Is she degrading herself? No, she does it because she wants to, because its a part of the traditions of her religion.
 

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shuamort said:
Now, does it make sense to you that an airline warn these folks not to wear their religion on their sleeve if they should choose this route? Yes, it does to me. I'm thinking that this is less about sensitivity to the Muslim faith and more about the CYA ideal of a corporation not wanting the high insurance premiums of having their flight crew subjected to the problems elucidated in my source. The airline is attempting to mitigate the problems before they get worse. And considering that BMI just starting flying to Riyadh a couple of months ago (and are the only British airline to do so), they're attempting to insure a monopoly.
No kidding. If I rather unfortunately found myself in Saudi Arabia, there's no way I'd have a Star of David around my neck. I wouldn't even say my surname aloud.

I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather not be beheaded in public. I kind of like my head. I'm sure the aircrew would agree, if they thought about the whole thing logically, with a sense of survival instinct.

Blind man - that's only parts of the Middle-Eastern Muslim world, you realise. Women in Muslim nations such as Turkey, Malaysia and Indonesia are treated equally under the law. A woman was even the president of Indonesia before the current president.
 

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Caine said:
A. Its a part of thier religious culture. Orthodox Jews are still the same way, to an extent, that women are not held as high as men (granted I don't think they have to be all covered up like Islam). Actually, only Reform Judaism allows women to be entirely equal to men in thier religious practice, to include being allowed to be clergy members.
B. The bible, in fact, shows a favorable position towards Men over Women. So why would Islam try to be any different?
C. Catholic Women are not held to equal standards when it comes to being members of Clergy, Nun's are not held to as high respect as Priests. I don't know any Female Popes....
D. Women were not treated as equally as men ANYWHERE, until the liberalism movement started in America. And im not talking about libralism as we know it now.

I dont understand why so many of my fellow Americans think that the rest of the world should be just like us. Thats arrogant, I believe that every nation and every culture should be exactly the way it works and the way the people like it.

Its a part of thier religious beliefs. I have neighboors who are Islamic. The wife wears the full body coverings to services on Friday Nights. Is she degrading herself? No, she does it because she wants to, because its a part of the traditions of her religion.
There goes the liberal, supporting dictatorship out of "cultural differences." Well I oppose it on all grounds and all forms of restrictive religion, Muslim, Christian, Jew or otherwise. And if anyone from any religion tries to impose his views on me, I will make sure I am the last thing he sees before he enters the presence of his god or godess.
 

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Axismaster said:
And if anyone from any religion tries to impose his views on me, I will make sure I am the last thing he sees before he enters the presence of his god or godess.
Oh, you're so hardcore. :roll: Yeah, because murder's the Christian thing to do.
 

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Political Correctness strikes again...:roll:
 

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Navy Pride said:
Political Correctness strikes again...:roll:
Navy, would you please go to Saudi Arabia with a crucifix around your neck and a Bible under your arm? Please?
 

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vergiss said:
Navy, would you please go to Saudi Arabia with a crucifix around your neck and a Bible under your arm? Please?
Go to your room young lady.........;)
 
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