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Afghanistan war logs

justabubba

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Afghanistan: The war logs | World news | guardian.co.uk
is this today's equivalent of the pentagon papers, to accelerate the end of the war in afghanistan?
seems the pakistani ISI is directing the afghanistan insurgency. appears those $billions we provided sure paid off ... for our enemy

yet another indication we learned nothing from our foolish vietnam experience
 

bub

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Afghanistan: The war logs | World news | guardian.co.uk
is this today's equivalent of the pentagon papers, to accelerate the end of the war in afghanistan?
seems the pakistani ISI is directing the afghanistan insurgency. appears those $billions we provided sure paid off ... for our enemy

yet another indication we learned nothing from our foolish vietnam experience
I just read the same article and was about to post it...how to win "hearts and minds"...not!
 

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I just read the same article and was about to post it...how to win "hearts and minds"...not!
War and conflict isn't a Hollywood movie.
 

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yet another indication we learned nothing from our foolish vietnam experience
And what lesson do you think Washington is supposed to have learned? Considering that the vast majority of our civilian leaders have never and would never lower themselves to spend time in uniform, who is there really qualified to have learned anything about Vietnam or anything that has occurred since?

The problem isn't this article or some earth shattering revelation that war is mean, vicious, confusing, and without perfection. The problem is that nobody who makes decisions in Washintgton has a clue what they are doing. Neither does the reporter who blasts ignorant opinions around his local small time story. And neither do the readers who form opinions around what they are highly ignorant of.
 

justabubba

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And what lesson do you think Washington is supposed to have learned? Considering that the vast majority of our civilian leaders have never and would never lower themselves to spend time in uniform, who is there really qualified to have learned anything about Vietnam or anything that has occurred since?

The problem isn't this article or some earth shattering revelation that war is mean, vicious, confusing, and without perfection. The problem is that nobody who makes decisions in Washintgton has a clue what they are doing. Neither does the reporter who blasts ignorant opinions around his local small time story. And neither do the readers who form opinions around what they are highly ignorant of.
that we don't fight wars for the freedom of others
if they are unwilling to fight for themselves, if it is not worth risking their lives to accomplish, then it is not worthy of putting American lives and treasure on the line to accomplish

that we never initiate a war without having a very clear objective to accomplish

that once we declare war, we give the assignment - and all required resources to our military - and have them wage war in a way that we will come out victorious

each of those lessons should have been learned by our vietnam experience. but the chickenhawks - never putting themselves on the line - were not required to figure it out
 

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that we don't fight wars for the freedom of others
That's not why we are fighting this war. We could care less about their freedom prior to 9/11. Do you actually think we do today? Look at it like this; America's security has long meant a stable and secure Europe. Two World Wars and a Cold War later, we refuse to allow the Bosnias and Kosovos go unchecked. With religious extremism exponentially growing since Beirut, culminating in the 9/11 attacks, how much of our security do you think depends on the health of the Middle East? Andwith nuclear power around the tribal corner?

The fact is that we are stuck dealing with the depravity of this world, because too often it leaks beyond borders and sucks us in. That is the lesson learnedthroughout the 20th century. You are thinking small.

if they are unwilling to fight for themselves, if it is not worth risking their lives to accomplish, then it is not worthy of putting American lives and treasure on the line to accomplish
Sort of like ignoring two World Wars until we had no choice but to commit more blood than we had to because we waited for disaster to convince us? How long did we ignore the oppression in Afghanistan before a terrorist organization found it a home in which to launch attacks on our soil? You assume that Muslims support what we fight against. Many Muslims have and are continuing to die defying their oppressors along side us. In the end, their democracy ensures our security. The same as Iraq, the same as Europe, the same as Asia. Our greatest threats have always come from dictators and oppressive states. The longer we ignored them, the costlier it has been for us.

that we never initiate a war without having a very clear objective to accomplish
Afghanistan was a war of retaliation. We initiated nothing. And the clear objective was to topple the Tali-Ban regime and leave Afghanistan on a positive path. The same as it was in Iraq. What is unclear to you? War is not a game of Checkers and rarely will you ever find a tidy bow in the end anymore. Times have changed. The age of the aggressive dictator is over. Our enemies are largely going to be without guoidon and without uniform. "Clear objectives" will never be as simple as making a statement into a microphone again.

that once we declare war, we give the assignment - and all required resources to our military - and have them wage war in a way that we will come out victorious
Well, like I stated, Washington's problem is that military experience and foriegn cultural knowledge is largely absent among those who make decisions. What's new? We haven't seen "victory" in the sense you want it to be since WWII. Dividing Korea in half was a "victory." Allowing Saddam Hussein to live on his throne after the Gulf War was a "victory." Iraq's democracy in the midst of social confrontations is a "victory." What impractical "victory" do you have in mind for Afghanistan?

each of those lessons should have been learned by our vietnam experience. but the chickenhawks - never putting themselves on the line - were not required to figure it out
These aren't lessons. These are excuses to be afraid of being bold. The Vietnam cliche is worn out and it was an exception. Iraq was a "Vietnam" too remember? It was "unwinnable?" The great "Iraqi Civil War" is the end? So much for all of that. Afghanistan is just the next hope to declare America a failure by those who haven't the ability to understand things beyond a repporters ignorance or an analyst's simpleness. In the end, the same rhetoric will be pointless and those who sought failure will be silent. In 30 years, Afghanistan and Iraq will be considered as battle grounds inside a larger war. The real lessons in our history are those that saw America to disaster because we pretended that things "aren't our business."
 
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oldreliable67

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MSgt,

Cogent words, as always. Glad to see you are still around!

...and apparently with more stripes!

Best regards from one who never made it past E-6,
OR67
 

MSgt

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MSgt,

Cogent words, as always. Glad to see you are still around!

...and apparently with more stripes!

Best regards from one who never made it past E-6,
OR67
Whoa. Been a long while brother. Missed ya.
 
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