I think it is, we don't want Afghanistan to get pregnant, do we?
but jesting aside, we should stay 'till the country is back on its feet, the only thing that can really stop a taliban resurgence is economic prosperity, if most of the people can have a steady income, the main base of support for the taliban, the poor and uneducated, will crumble.
Problem with that, is that will take decades if not a century and might not happen regardless.
yet, if it did happen, it could bring further stability throughout the entire region.
if you look anything like your avatar, that could be doubtful :2razz:yes, and if jessica biel would screw me we would have beautiful kids
it doesn't have to be a democracy, just as long as it works, and with the couple of trillion dollars worth of resources sitting under the rocks, if that could be developed into a profitable industry, it is plausible that it'd bring stability, and modernity, and eventually, even democracy.the likelihood that afghanistan will move from its ancient tribal system of government and adopt an uncorrupt democracy instead is almost as unlikely as ms. biel having an amorous interest in me
Colin Powell warned of the pottery barn rule, "you break it, you own it", before this misadventure was begun
afghanistan is "unwinnable" if the definition of win is to expect that country's people to adopt our western ways
ideally, we would want to stay long enough for the government to become established, but it appears mainly interested in sucking all of the wealth of the USA for the benefit of its prominent people for their own purposes. there is nothing which indicates this government can survive without the American presence. we cannot help those who will not help themselves
al qaeda as effectively been driven out of that country; what is the point of remaining there now
Problem with that, is that will take decades if not a century and might not happen regardless.
yet, if it did happen, it could bring further stability throughout the entire region.
Does anyone agree that it is time to pull out?
--snip--
What are we doing there? Is it worth the lives of our soldiers and Afghan civilians? Does anyone really see a positive conclusion in sight?
Will it come to the situation, where there is no other solution, but to defeat the Tailban completely, like what happened with the Nazis?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/08/world/asia/08contract.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&src=twt&twt=nytimes... The failure of American companies to pay for contracted work has left hundreds of Afghan workers unpaid in southern Afghanistan, and dozens of factories and small businesses so deep in debt that Afghan and foreign officials fear the fallout will undermine the United States-led counterinsurgency effort to win the support of the Afghan people.
... One foreigner familiar with Bennett-Fouch in Afghanistan said he started hearing that there were problems with subcontractors not getting paid in the fall of 2009.
... United States forces are responsible for only those contracts made directly with the prime contractor and have no means of enforcing the rights of subcontractors, said Colonel Lawhorn, the ISAF spokesman.
... “We are definitely concerned with the impact our activities have on our Afghan relationships,” Colonel Lawhorn said.
... The Afghans, who were pro-American and ready to risk threats from the Taliban to do business with American firms, said they were disappointed when the United States Embassy and United States military told them they could not help. “People are thinking the Americans are failing in everything,” Mr. Layeq said.
Does anyone agree that it is time to pull out?
What are we doing there? While the hope was to leave the civilians with a more humane and 'Afghan' type government than the Taliban and the emphasis was on avoiding civilian deaths (absolutely necessary to win their hearts), I thought possibly there was a reason.....
but does anyone really believe there is such a possibility. Guerilla fighters are always almost impossible to beat. Afghan civilians are just trying to save their lives and that of their families and will go this way or that depending on which side at any particular time seems most promising.
This leaves our soldiers themselves very vulnerable - and what for?
I was half listening to Question Time last night and someone tried to make out we were now fighting the war in Afghanistan for the opium trade.
Rawa has been asking for troops to move out for a very long time and I doubt if you will find any organisation which dislikes the Taliban as much as RAWA. However they also believe the Kabul government is about as bad and the situation of women has hardly improved since this war began. They believe that when we all move out there will be civil war and then things will settle.
What are we doing there? Is it worth the lives of our soldiers and Afghan civilians? Does anyone really see a positive conclusion in sight?
appears many advocate nation-building
in an uneducated country where government is concentrated in the hands of tribal overlords
where there is almost no infrastructure for commerce beyond that conducted in bazaars
yet, we see how our nation-building actions backfire:
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Personally I would prefer it if Russia was invited to send troops to help with (in effect what the west is trying to do is subjugate Afghanistan) subduing Afghanistan.
Does anyone agree that it is time to pull out?
What are we doing there? While the hope was to leave the civilians with a more humane and 'Afghan' type government than the Taliban and the emphasis was on avoiding civilian deaths (absolutely necessary to win their hearts), I thought possibly there was a reason.....
but does anyone really believe there is such a possibility. Guerilla fighters are always almost impossible to beat. Afghan civilians are just trying to save their lives and that of their families and will go this way or that depending on which side at any particular time seems most promising.
This leaves our soldiers themselves very vulnerable - and what for?
I was half listening to Question Time last night and someone tried to make out we were now fighting the war in Afghanistan for the opium trade.
Rawa has been asking for troops to move out for a very long time and I doubt if you will find any organisation which dislikes the Taliban as much as RAWA. However they also believe the Kabul government is about as bad and the situation of women has hardly improved since this war began. They believe that when we all move out there will be civil war and then things will settle.
What are we doing there? Is it worth the lives of our soldiers and Afghan civilians? Does anyone really see a positive conclusion in sight?
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