Admiral McRaven chasties the Trump crowd

[jamesbyoung]

And, even this won't change the Trumpers' minds.

“As Americans, we should be frightened — deeply afraid for the future of the nation. When good men and women can’t speak the truth, when facts are inconvenient, when integrity and character no longer matter, when presidential ego and self-preservation are more important than national security — then there is nothing left to stop the triumph of evil."
-
Admiral William H. McRaven, the commander who oversaw the raid that killed Osama Bin Laden, discussing Trump's firing of Joseph Maguire (Director of Intelligence) in the Washington Post, 02/21/20

They'd rather watch the house burn and take everyone with it than share it with those who don't admire the murderous Putin as much as they do.

They are our worst and stupidest citizens and President Reagan, who they deludedly claim to admire, would spit in their unAmerican faces.

 

[Barnacle]

And, even this won't change the Trumpers' minds.
“As Americans, we should be frightened — deeply afraid for the future of the nation. When good men and women can’t speak the truth, when facts are inconvenient, when integrity and character no longer matter, when presidential ego and self-preservation are more important than national security — then there is nothing left to stop the triumph of evil."
-
Admiral William H. McRaven, the commander who oversaw the raid that killed Osama Bin Laden, discussing Trump's firing of Joseph Maguire (Director of Intelligence) in the Washington Post, 02/21/20
They'd rather watch the house burn and take everyone with it than share it with those who don't admire the murderous Putin as much as they do.
They are our worst and stupidest citizens and President Reagan, who they deludedly claim to admire, would spit in their unAmerican faces.

Is that his 8th or 9th public whining about our President? Classic case of a broken record ...

 

[jamesbyoung]

Is that his 8th or 9th public whining about our President? Classic case of a broken record ...

McRaven vigilance in the face of Trump disaster is not extremism.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Is that his 8th or 9th public whining about our President? Classic case of a broken record ...

Classic case of fingers in the ears while singing.

USIC and military personnel keep warning us about Trump over and over and over again.
This is fine

 

[jamesbyoung]

Classic case of fingers in the ears while singing.

USIC and military personnel keep warning us about Trump over and over and over again.
This is fine

Patriots like McRaven keep up the fire on Trump.

 

[3leftsdoo]

Democrats burn their own house down, accuse the Republicans of arson, and lap up the partisan nonsense of Swamp Rats who validate their obsession with Trump.

It must be a day that ends in day...

 

[Captain Adverse]

And, even this won't change the Trumpers' minds.

“As Americans, we should be frightened — deeply afraid for the future of the nation. When good men and women can’t speak the truth, when facts are inconvenient, when integrity and character no longer matter, when presidential ego and self-preservation are more important than national security — then there is nothing left to stop the triumph of evil."
-
Admiral William H. McRaven, the commander who oversaw the raid that killed Osama Bin Laden, discussing Trump's firing of Joseph Maguire (Director of Intelligence) in the Washington Post, 02/21/20

They'd rather watch the house burn and take everyone with it than share it with those who don't admire the murderous Putin as much as they do.

They are our worst and stupidest citizens and President Reagan, who they deludedly claim to admire, would spit in their unAmerican faces.

The "Admiral" is, of course, entitled to his opinion.

However, just because he is an Admiral who "oversaw the raid that killed Bin Laden" doesn't make his opinion dispositive.

Neither did the fact Vindman was a Lt. Colonel in the army make HIS opinion of what went on dispositive.

These appeals to authority on issues where they neither have actual authority (which the President does), nor more than at best an advisory role (as Vindman had)...combined with $1.00, might get you a cup of coffee.

That's about all they are worth to anyone other than partisans seeking reinforcement of their existing confirmation bias. :coffeepap:

 

[jamesbyoung]

jamesbyoung
And, even this won't change the Trumpers' minds.

“As Americans, we should be frightened — deeply afraid for the future of the nation. When good men and women can’t speak the truth, when facts are inconvenient, when integrity and character no longer matter, when presidential ego and self-preservation are more important than national security — then there is nothing left to stop the triumph of evil."
-
Admiral William H. McRaven, the commander who oversaw the raid that killed Osama Bin Laden, discussing Trump's firing of Joseph Maguire (Director of Intelligence) in the Washington Post, 02/21/20

They'd rather watch the house burn and take everyone with it than share it with those who don't admire the murderous Putin as much as they do.

They are our worst and stupidest citizens and President Reagan, who they deludedly claim to admire, would spit in their unAmerican faces.

The "Admiral" is, of course, entitled to his opinion. However, just because he is an Admiral who "oversaw the raid that killed Bin Laden" doesn't make his opinion dispositive. Neither did the fact Vindman was a Lt. Colonel in the army make HIS opinion of what went on dispositive. These appeals to authority on issues where they neither have actual authority (which the President does), nor more than at best an advisory role (as Vindman had)...combined with $1.00, might get you a cup of coffee. That's about all they are worth to anyone other than partisans seeking reinforcement of their existing confirmation bias. :coffeepap:

The Admiral’s opinion is far more dispositive than yours, my friend. So is LTC Vindman’s than yours. Your appeal to authority of yourself is laughable. Your opinion combined with a $1 won’t get you even a cup of coffee. You are, of course, entitled to your opinions but your confirmation bias is so very obvious.

 

[jamesbyoung]

Democrats burn their own house down, accuse the Republicans of arson, and lap up the partisan nonsense of Swamp Rats who validate their obsession with Trump. It must be a day that ends in day...

You are one of Trump's 'sore winners', my friend; get over it, you won. And now you are going to lose big time because you have been unable to see the country on Trump's lies.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

The "Admiral" is, of course, entitled to his opinion.
However, just because he is an Admiral who "oversaw the raid that killed Bin Laden" doesn't make his opinion dispositive.
Neither did the fact Vindman was a Lt. Colonel in the army make HIS opinion of what went on dispositive.
These appeals to authority on issues where they neither have actual authority (which the President does), nor more than at best an advisory role (as Vindman had)...combined with $1.00, might get you a cup of coffee.
That's about all they are worth to anyone other than partisans seeking reinforcement of their existing confirmation bias. :coffeepap:

An appeal to authority is a fallacy if the person whose opinion is being cited is an authority in a field other than what is being discussed.


If cite an electrician's opinion about wiring a building, that is fine.
If you cite an electrician's opinion about plumbing a building, you are making a fallacious appeal to authority


Same thing with a physicians advice about health.
Citing a physician's advice about health — good
Citing a physician's advice about investing — fallacious appeal to authority


When an admiral speaks about national security issues and military matters,
that is someone speaking from their roundhouse about their bailiwick.
obviously, ymmv

 

[Captain Adverse]

An appeal to authority is a fallacy if the person whose opinion is being cited is an authority in a field other than what is being discussed.


If cite an electrician's opinion about wiring a building, that is fine.
If you cite an electrician's opinion about plumbing a building, you are making a fallacious appeal to authority


Same thing with a physicians advice about health.
Citing a physician's advice about health — good
Citing a physician's advice about investing — fallacious appeal to authority


When an admiral speaks about national security issues and military matters,
that is someone speaking from their roundhouse about their bailiwick.
obviously, ymmv

That depends. For example:

If an electrician offer's an opinion about another electrician's work, that is not dispositive.

If a Physician offer's an opinion about another Physician's diagnosis, that is not dispositive.

If an Admiral who speaks about "national security issues and military matters" is offering an opinion about his COMMANDER IN CHIEF'S decisions? That is not only not dispositive, it border's on insubordination.

 

[narrowroad]

And, even this won't change the Trumpers' minds.

“As Americans, we should be frightened — deeply afraid for the future of the nation. When good men and women can’t speak the truth, when facts are inconvenient, when integrity and character no longer matter, when presidential ego and self-preservation are more important than national security — then there is nothing left to stop the triumph of evil."
-
Admiral William H. McRaven, the commander who oversaw the raid that killed Osama Bin Laden, discussing Trump's firing of Joseph Maguire (Director of Intelligence) in the Washington Post, 02/21/20

They'd rather watch the house burn and take everyone with it than share it with those who don't admire the murderous Putin as much as they do.

They are our worst and stupidest citizens and President Reagan, who they deludedly claim to admire, would spit in their unAmerican faces.

Whatever happened to Civility?

I tend not to listen to those who do not appreciate it

 

[Simon W. Moon]

If an Admiral who speaks about "national security issues and military matters" is offering an opinion about his COMMANDER IN CHIEF'S decisions? That is not only not dispositive, it border's on insubordination.

Iirc, the Admiral is retired.
So, I'm unsure that insubordination is applicable even if it were relevant.
The man is an expert in national security issues.

Trump is not.

If there is a discrepancy between experts' assessment of a situation and a layman's assessment (especially a layman with skin in the game) i.e. Trump,
it's reasonable to decide that the experts know more about their field than the layman.

It's reasonable to give weight to the McRaven's opinion on this subject where McRaven is arguably one of the experts.

 

[Irwin Corey]

That depends. For example:

If an electrician offer's an opinion about another electrician's work, that is not dispositive.

If a Physician offer's an opinion about another Physician's diagnosis, that is not dispositive.

If an Admiral who speaks about "national security issues and military matters" is offering an opinion about his COMMANDER IN CHIEF'S decisions? That is not only not dispositive, it border's on insubordination.

You like to present yourself as objective, but you always, eventually, reveal your true bias. Like calling a respected, decorated and highly admired Admiral that's been retired for six (6) years insubordinate.

 

[jamesbyoung]

Whatever happened to Civility?

I tend not to listen to those who do not appreciate it

Because Trumpers cannot be civil, so must be dealt with the force they understand

e.g., look at CaptainAdverse's comments in #14 above. CA is a civilian without any expertise in this matter, the Admiral is an expert, and the President is not an expert who will only listen to the voices in his head.

 

[apdst]

And, even this won't change the Trumpers' minds.

“As Americans, we should be frightened — deeply afraid for the future of the nation. When good men and women can’t speak the truth, when facts are inconvenient, when integrity and character no longer matter, when presidential ego and self-preservation are more important than national security — then there is nothing left to stop the triumph of evil."
-
Admiral William H. McRaven, the commander who oversaw the raid that killed Osama Bin Laden, discussing Trump's firing of Joseph Maguire (Director of Intelligence) in the Washington Post, 02/21/20

They'd rather watch the house burn and take everyone with it than share it with those who don't admire the murderous Putin as much as they do.

They are our worst and stupidest citizens and President Reagan, who they deludedly claim to admire, would spit in their unAmerican faces.

McRaven's a ****ing idiot.

 

[apdst]

An appeal to authority is a fallacy if the person whose opinion is being cited is an authority in a field other than what is being discussed.


If cite an electrician's opinion about wiring a building, that is fine.
If you cite an electrician's opinion about plumbing a building, you are making a fallacious appeal to authority


Same thing with a physicians advice about health.
Citing a physician's advice about health — good
Citing a physician's advice about investing — fallacious appeal to authority


When an admiral speaks about national security issues and military matters,
that is someone speaking from their roundhouse about their bailiwick.
obviously, ymmv

Are you saying McRaven has the authority to tell the citizens of the republic who to vote for?

 

[Captain Adverse]

You like to present yourself as objective, but you always, eventually, reveal your true bias. Like calling a respected, decorated and highly admired Admiral that's been retired for six (6) years insubordinate.

It is not my intention to present myself as "objective" on every topic.

I try to present myself as willing to look at both sides with as open a mind as possible, while still recognizing I have my own views and biases.

That I will argue my views, and support them until such time as shown I am mistaken, or otherwise convinced to change them.

Currently Admiral McRaven is retired, and holds no office. However, my understanding is that retired General-grade officers are subject to recall to active duty. In fact, in a most recent ruling United States v. Dinger, 77 M.J. 447 (C.A.A.F. Jun. 18, 2018), pet. denied, 139 S.Ct. 492 (Nov. 13, 2018), it was determined that retired military personnel are still subject to UCMJ criminal charges. CAAFlog >> United States v. Dinger

But even if this is/were not the case, I grant no one is likely to suggest he be charged with "insubordination." He is not currently on active duty, nor serving in any government position.

However, my original point still stands regarding his right to offer his opinion; it is absolute.

But it is merely an appeal to authority, one by a "former" government official...of which there are many.

Many who've also signed petitions, and/or otherwise continuously voiced antipathy for the President since before he was elected.

That those who assume his opinion is dispositive are simply expressing their own confirmation bias. Especially as he is no longer a "serving" government/military official. :shrug:

 

[SCrider]

Is that his 8th or 9th public whining about our President? Classic case of a broken record ...

You've preventive and time again you will be one of the ones rearranging the deck chairs........

 

[SCrider]

McRaven's a ****ing idiot.

He's total ***** too, right? He's not one of the tough war criminals that you guys love.

 

[jamesbyoung]

McRaven's a ****ing idiot.

Nah, that's the people who oppose him, my friend.

And you, apdst, have no authority to tell the citizens of the republic who to vote for. You can offer an opinion like the Admiral's, but he is far more qualified than you to have people listen to his advice.

Captain Adverse, I think people look at your long posts, shake their heads, and move on.

 

[apdst]

Nah, that's the people who oppose him, my friend.

And you, apdst, have no authority to tell the citizens of the republic who to vote for. You can offer an opinion like the Admiral's, but he is far more qualified than you to have people listen to his advice.

Captain Adverse, I think people look at your long posts, shake their heads, and move on.

**** him. What makes him qualified to think for other citizens. He must have forgotten who he works for.

 

[jamesbyoung]

**** him. What makes him qualified to think for other citizens. He must have forgotten who he works for.

You are now spluttering.

 

[apdst]

He's total ***** too, right? He's not one of the tough war criminals that you guys love.

He's an authoritarian. He wishes he could jail people that vote the wrong way.

 

[apdst]

You are now spluttering.

Ixm standing up and the thread isn't about me.