Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?[W:118]

cpwill · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

The Mark said:
Because it would require physical coercion of a person. And mental coercion for that matter.

How is that necessarily different from any other enforcement of discrimination law, in which you both physicaly coerce the actions of the individual and are willing to override potential mental anguish when doing so?

In my mind, sex without consent is unacceptable.

I think that's the nugget, and I think it's what is informing most of this debate. People are reacting to what they find unacceptable, rather than seeking to formulate and follow consistent rules that would apply to all scenarios.

cpwill · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

chromium said:
It almost makes me wish that the OP was forced to sell the cake and then forced to have sex with a disease ridden prostitute and then reconsider

Always good when people show their hand.

But I wonder what you would think would occur during that reconsideration. If I were to respond to your homosexuality by forcing you to attend anti-SSM rallies and have sex with women, do you think that would A) gosh, make you reconsider your position or B) make you incredibly angry against my coercion of your most personal areas?

cpwill · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

CanadaJohn said:
This is true. When the state licenses a business enterprise, such as prostitution in Nevada, that business enterprise must be governed by all the public accommodation laws in place.

Well it seems we have an honest man.

cpwill · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

joG said:
If you are going to allow discrimination against religion you might as well allow racism. Power to the people! Huh?

:shrug: that would be my preferred solution.

cpwill · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

Redress said:
Why do you keep saying I have not answered the question, when I very clearly have?

Because you have not. You have attempted to avoid the issue at question by bringing up and answering other questions instead. Should the State have the right to force women to have sex with men (or women) they do not want to against their will, if doing so is what is necessary to enforce anti-discrimination law. You are attempting to shift to "well it may be a private club" or "well, maybe the prostitute is a private contractor" etc. in order to try to avoid answering that question.

Fearandloathing · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

chromium said:
where the **** was he making death threats?

oh yes i'm responsible for every moron's probably joking tweets about burning down a craphole pizza place in middle of nowhere and that *definitely* applies to everyone who opposes "RFRA"

Duh..

Please pay attention....

There was this little pizzeria that had to close...
Proud of yourselves over that eh?

faithful_servant · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

Montecresto said:
No, I don't care what someone feels. I care about equal rights. Which, because men aren't angels, need to be protected by legislation.

I understand that people need protection from certain things, but it's a matter of where we draw the line. What happens in our society is that the "protected group of the moment" gets all the attention, yet the basic issue of where the line gets drawn never gets addressed. In the case of the OP, you would draw the line at a completely different point than in the case of the bakery. I understand that there needs to be some measure of latitude in how the law is applied, but even that should be defined so that the law gets applied equitably to all. So let's work towards a solution that both protects people and treats them consistently and equitably instead of basing the application of the law on how we feel about the person it it being applied to.

radcen · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

RabidAlpaca said:
Only the christian victimhood complex could come up with such insane hyperbole. Selling a cake to a homosexual is not the same thing as being forced to have sex with someone. I wish that you had at least an ounce of shame and you should be embarrassed for making such a comparison.

Cardinal said:
I've also been asked if I should have to do business with a pedophile, a Nazi, a puppy beater, someone in the act of committing bestiality, etc. If these threads go on for much longer someone will demand to know whether a deli should be forced to make a sandwich for a time-traveling, cyborg Nazi alien.

These questions are not as ridiculous as you seem to think they are. They are legitimately asking where the line is. Of course the examples are extreme, but the premise is valid.

I'll rephrase the OP's question in simpler and less absurd terms: Where is the line?

Please, be specific and/or give examples.

Paperview · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

Redress said:
I mentioned this in my first post that I was not 100 % sure, but that I saw reference(I forget where now) to them being considered private clubs. Still a business, still licensed, but not a public accommodation. I did make it a point to also answer with the assumption that it was a public accommodation, so I answered both ways essentially.

Here's something I just found. 1972: Black man was refused service at Nevada's Cottontail Ranch. He filed a complaint with the Nevada Equal Rights Commission. Man from the Nevada ERC went to ranch to investigate. He was also black. That man was turned down.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AAIBAJ&sjid=X8gEAAAAIBAJ&pg=610,2587959&hl=en

I've looked and looked, and can't seem to find how it was adjudicated/

Cardinal · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

radcen said:
These questions are not as ridiculous as you seem to think they are. They are legitimately asking where the line is. Of course the examples are extreme, but the premise is valid.

I'll rephrase the OP's question in simpler and less absurd terms: Where is the line?

Please, be specific and/or give examples.

The line is the topic at hand. Social, religious conservatives are simply expanding the radius of the discussion so it bogs it down into the ridiculous, just as they're expanding the definitions of discrimination and hypocrisy until they no longer have any meaning. It's reductio ad absurdum at its finest, no different than how every gay marriage thread eventually devolves into bestiality and pedophilia.*

Should a gay Nazi have to sell a cake covered in Christian Stars of David to a Jewish ghost? Well, Radcen...should he?

*The discussion starts bringing up the issues of bestiality and pedophilia. People in the thread do not suddenly start practicing bestiality and pedophilia midway through the topic, although I think we could all agree that would make debates around here a lot more interesting.

Phys251 · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

Thrilla said:
only one of us is getting all bent out of shape and it's not me...

"however gently" :lol:.. please dude, don't be dishonest... none of you anti-christian bigots are "gentle".

from time to time, everybody has thin skin.... and everybody always wishes thier "enemy" should just shut up or disappear
you're not special... you've got thin skin from time to time as well... and we certianly know you want Chrsitian to remove themselves from society... you've stated as much.

And here comes the EXACT kind of defensiveness that I have grown used to from you conservative Christians. Like clockwork.

You know why you (plural) are so defensive? Because you. Have. No. Faith. You may have belief, but you do not have faith. If you had faith in God as described by the Bible and interpreted by most Christian denominations, if you had faith in whom you profess to be Lord of the Universe, who could instantly knock the planet Earth halfway across the galaxy in a blink of an eye, you would be able to do what Jesus did and shrug everything off your shoulders, because God would take care of us in the end. But you rely on your own powers, not God's powers, to boost yourselves up. You have no faith.

Oh, and another thing. You just gave false testimony against your neighbor. You just broke the Ninth Commandment. Now why the hell should we listen to someone who can't even follow his own rules, let alone try to make laws and statutes out of those rules?

No faith, and full of lies. The Bible is very clear as to what happens to people with those attributes.

yes, I am...

you forgot to answer the question....

Your question was either a meaningless hypothetical or a strawman. I answered them already with questions of my own; anyone whose mind is open would have instantly recognized that my questions were rhetorical. Geez you conservative Christians are defensive...

ocean515 · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

Montecresto said:
I don't know either, but the thought of a bakery with no yeast in it is kinda comical. Leavening has to be not just left out of all recipes, it has to be removed from the premises, completely. Leavening is representative of sin.

I guess that would have to be right. I think you can see the analogy I was trying to make. Should a Muslim demand a Jewish Baker sell them certain goods that may be against their religious beliefs?

ocean515 · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

Cardinal said:
Wait...you were being serious???

Yes, I was serious when I stated you aren't ever serious.

Fearandloathing · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

Phys251 said:
And here comes the EXACT kind of defensiveness that I have grown used to from you conservative Christians. Like clockwork.

You know why you (plural) are so defensive? Because you. Have. No. Faith. You may have belief, but you do not have faith. If you had faith in God as described by the Bible and interpreted by most Christian denominations, if you had faith in whom you profess to be Lord of the Universe, who could instantly knock the planet Earth halfway across the galaxy in a blink of an eye, you would be able to do what Jesus did and shrug everything off your shoulders, because God would take care of us in the end. But you rely on your own powers, not God's powers, to boost yourselves up. You have no faith.

Oh, and another thing. You just gave false testimony against your neighbor. You just broke the Ninth Commandment. Now why the hell should we listen to someone who can't even follow his own rules, let alone try to make laws and statutes out of those rules?

No faith, and full of lies. The Bible is very clear as to what happens to people with those attributes.

Your question was either a meaningless hypothetical or a strawman. I answered them already with questions of my own; anyone whose mind is open would have instantly recognized that my questions were rhetorical. Geez you conservative Christians are defensive...

I doubt I will see a more inaccurate and off the marl post today.

An atheist telling a Christian he has no faith.

Oh sweet irony, the muse of illiteracy

Phys251 · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

Fearandloathing said:
I doubt I will see a more inaccurate and off the marl post today.

Prove it. Prove that what I said was wrong. No ridiculous strawmen or ad hominems. Logic. Use it.

An atheist telling a Christian he has no faith.

Oh sweet irony, the muse of illiteracy

Protip: Resorting to childish insults in your first reply to someone is not the winning tactic that you apparently believe it is.

eohrnberger · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

Fearandloathing said:
Such hate!

Notice ladies and gentlemen we cannot simply have "Christians" engaging in hyperbole, they have to be "the christian victimhood complex"...

Death threats, a call top arson, the forced closure of a family business.....nothing stops the Amerikan "liberal" from demeaning and degrading other Americans.

And while we're at it I need to add the topic is rather ridiculous, but no more so than 80% of the socialist hate that's being posted on this topic.

FFS, Germany, France, Canada, Britain, Australia and others have all settled this a long time ago without death threats. So much hate......

Indeed. In fact, it become known to other prominent liberals, and are as disgusted and concerned about it.

Here's the thing: I didn't support the original Indiana law. I am both a Christian who doesn't believe the Bible prohibits serving a same-sex wedding and a vocal LGBT rights supporter who has blasted laws similar to Indiana's for fear that they could provide legal protection to those who discriminate against gay people.

But I'm starting to wonder: who needs the protection here?

Kirsten Powers: Gay marriage debate's sore winners

Who needs the protection? I'd say the world, the nation and the electorate needs protection from hate filled liberals, of which there appear to be many.

Fearandloathing · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

Phys251 said:
Prove it. Prove that what I said was wrong. No ridiculous strawmen or ad hominems. Logic. Use it.

Protip: Resorting to childish insults in your first reply to someone is not the winning tactic that you apparently believe it is.

Such anger in so called liberals...

protip.....strawman is the weakest argument.

Please read a business license and don't get back to me.

Gina · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

Moderator's Warning:

The topic does not include each other. Please leave the personal comments out of the discussion and stick to the topic.

Redress · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

cpwill said:
Because you have not. You have attempted to avoid the issue at question by bringing up and answering other questions instead. Should the State have the right to force women to have sex with men (or women) they do not want to against their will, if doing so is what is necessary to enforce anti-discrimination law. You are attempting to shift to "well it may be a private club" or "well, maybe the prostitute is a private contractor" etc. in order to try to avoid answering that question.

And what you are doing is complaining that I am not answering the question of whether I have stopped beating my wife with a yes or no answer. The problem is that you do not like the answer because I do not put it in the formula you want, when in fact I am answering the question by showing how the formula is flawed and what is reality.

Lursa · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

CanadaJohn said:
This is true. When the state licenses a business enterprise, such as prostitution in Nevada, that business enterprise must be governed by all the public accommodation laws in place.

cpwill said:
Well it seems we have an honest man.

And how is this substantially different? It was posted early in the thread.

Lursa said:
If Sally cannot reasonably serve a substantial part of the public, she should not own or be working in a public business where that is required.

Just like the Muslim woman at Target who did not want to handle pork. Then she should not have taken that job.

If Sally will not comply with the business regulations of the state, her license for that business should be revoked or her boss should fire her. Or stick her in the office to do paperwork or other tasks required for that business.

So early that it might have reduced the opportunities to "discuss" your point of view with dissenters?

Montecresto · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

cpwill said:
How is that necessarily different from any other enforcement of discrimination law, in which you both physicaly coerce the actions of the individual and are willing to override potential mental anguish when doing so?

I think that's the nugget, and I think it's what is informing most of this debate. People are reacting to what they find unacceptable, rather than seeking to formulate and follow consistent rules that would apply to all scenarios.

There's usually exceptions to every rule. Dreaming up hypothetical gotcha scenarios to distract from real time discrimination is just that.

Montecresto · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

ocean515 said:
I guess that would have to be right. I think you can see the analogy I was trying to make. Should a Muslim demand a Jewish Baker sell them certain goods that may be against their religious beliefs?

It's not even possible if the Jewish baker doesn't stock the item that the Muslim is seeking. Leavening being off his premises during Passover week. He'll need to buy flat bread, Matzo! The Jewish baker wouldn't be selling leavened products to another Jew or Christian or atheist during that week either. So your scenario has no discriminating aspect to it.

Phys251 · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

Fearandloathing said:
Such anger in so called liberals...

protip.....strawman is the weakest argument.

Please read a business license and don't get back to me.

Wow. If that was your best comeback, then it was an incredibly weak one.

Are you a Christian?

CanadaJohn · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

Lursa said:
And how is this substantially different? It was posted early in the thread.

So early that it might have reduced the opportunities to "discuss" your point of view with dissenters?

I'm not sure what you're getting at here or why you quoted me. My response, to the author of the OP, was in connection to a comment he posted prior to your first post in the thread. My involvement in the thread after that initial comment was only to respond again to a comment the author of the OP addressed my way. I don't believe I engage in a discussion with any other poster in the thread.

joko104 · Apr 8, 2015

Re: Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?

The thread title and OP has absolutely NOTHING to do with poll.

However, an accurate poll question could be would anti-gender discrimination laws require a professional prostitute to have sex contrary to her/his sexual sex orientation/preference?

Addendum to RFRA - should a prostitute be forced to have sex with whites?[W:118]

Should the State force Sally to be ****'d by white men?

I think Christians should be allowed to opt out of gay weddings - No

I think Christians should be allowed to opt out of gay weddings - Yes

I think Christians should be made to sell to gay weddings - No

I think Christians should be made to sell to gay weddings - Yes

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