Abstinence-only programs do not reduce HIV risk

[Binary_Digit]

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - In high income countries, programs that encourage abstinence from sex as the only method of preventing HIV infection are not effective in achieving this goal, findings from a review of trial data suggest.

(snip)

Data from 13 trials, containing nearly 16,000 U.S. youth, were included in their analysis.

(snip)

Compared with no program, safer sex programs, and various other control programs, the abstinence-only programs did not seem to reduce HIV risk. Specifically, abstinence-only programs did not influence the rate of unprotected vaginal sex, the number of sexual partners, condom use, or initiation of sexual activity.

(snip)

"In contrast to abstinence only programs, programs that promote the use of condoms greatly reduce the risk of acquiring HIV, especially when such programs are culturally tailored behavioral interventions targeting people at highest risk of HIV infection," Dr. Stephen E. Hawes, from the University of Washington in Seattle, and colleagues note in a relate editorial.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=606621

It would seem that these abstinence-only programs have not only failed to "reduce HIV", they have failed to reduce the rate of sexual activity overall. Adults tell teenagers not to do something that they're strongly driven to do, and they do it anyway. Imagine that. :shock:

Of course, "because they're going to do it anyway" is not a good reason to completely abandon any efforts to encourage abstinence. I think the general approach should be, "You probably should wait because x, y, and z, but if you decide not to then wrap it up!" It's the best of both sides.

Edit: I can't fix the quotes, it keeps adding new quote tags for some reason.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Of course, "because they're going to do it anyway" is not a good reason to completely abandon any efforts to encourage abstinence.

Everyone says this, but curiously noone ever seems to produce a good reason why we should encourage abstinence in the first place. Obviously it's the only sure way to prevent pregnancy and sexually-transmitted disease... but we still expect (and hope) that our children will not abstain from sex forever.

So... what is so good about abstinence that we feel we must promote it, even though we regard our efforts as hopeless?

 

[Binary_Digit]

Everyone says this, but curiously noone ever seems to produce a good reason why we should encourage abstinence in the first place.

I guess because teenagers are not as prepared as adults to raise a child if their condom breaks?

 

[1069]

Everyone says this, but curiously noone ever seems to produce a good reason why we should encourage abstinence in the first place. Obviously it's the only sure way to prevent pregnancy and sexually-transmitted disease... but we still expect (and hope) that our children will not abstain from sex forever.

I think, deep down, that many in our society do wish that some teenagers would "abstain from sex forever".
Not their own teenagers, heaven forbid; but other ones. Poor ones. Ones with brown skin.
While they may not actually expect that they will abstain forever, I guess they figure it doesn't hurt to try brainwashing them with scare tactics. Maybe they figure it'll actually have an effect on somebody one of these days. Of course it hasn't yet, but perhaps they figure that someday it might.

 

[GarzaUK]

Abstinence teachers to not want to wipe out STD's anyway as this will encourage more people to have sex before marriage. In fact certain abstinence programs have actively tried to provide cures and treatments to STD's.

Abstinence was never to do with preventing the spread of disease or unwanted pregnencies. Abstinence is religion based, used as a tool to spread religious dogma on those who do not wish so. Abstinence learners statistically are les likely to wear condoms when they have sex and will lead to produce more std's and unplanned pregnencies.

It's so bizarre isn't it?? The US is the most religious country in the West, yet it has more abortions, more std's and more unplanned pregnencies than any other country in the West. And then you have the Netherlands that has sex legal limit of 14 and are taught EVERYTHING about sex that don't have this problems. That's because the Dutch don't treat sex as a taboo.

 

[PeteEU]

If anything Abstinence only programs increase the risk of STDs because it makes the youth dumb as snot when it comes to sex. So when they go against the advice of their elders (as teens do no matter what) and have sex, then they have unsafe sex as they have not been taught anything about it!

You see it time and time again. The more religious a country is, the dumber its people are when it comes to sex and reproduction (and often to other matters also).

On this issue the US is as "stupid" as Iran, Saudi Arabia and random nomadic tribe in Africa brainwashed by christianity.

 

[tryreading]

http://www.debatepolitics.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=606621

It would seem that these abstinence-only programs have not only failed to "reduce HIV", they have failed to reduce the rate of sexual activity overall. Adults tell teenagers not to do something that they're strongly driven to do, and they do it anyway. Imagine that. :shock:

Of course, "because they're going to do it anyway" is not a good reason to completely abandon any efforts to encourage abstinence. I think the general approach should be, "You probably should wait because x, y, and z, but if you decide not to then wrap it up!" It's the best of both sides.

Edit: I can't fix the quotes, it keeps adding new quote tags for some reason.

People are going to have sex at all ages including when they are not of age. They are doing it now, and they were doing it before the sexual revolution. It isn't a new thing.

One thing that gets me is the majority of people that want only abstinance taught to their children have had underage sex, and virtually all of them have had premarital sex. They are very naive to think that teaching their children about abstinance makes any difference, and they should realize that fact based on their own experience. They should teach their kids about all of the birth control/disease prevention tools and techniques that are available and force the public school systems to do the same. Its bad parenting to do any less.



Data from the 2002 survey indicate that by age 20, 77% of respondents had had sex, 75% had had premarital sex, and 12% had married; by age 44, 95% of respondents (94% of women, 96% of men, and 97% of those who had ever had sex) had had premarital sex. Even among those who abstained until at least age 20, 81% had had premarital sex by age 44. Among cohorts of women turning 15 between 1964 and 1993, at least 91% had had premarital sex by age 30. Among those turning 15 between 1954 and 1963, 82% had had premarital sex by age 30, and 88% had done so by age 44.

...

In addition, public opinion polls over the last 20 years have consistently shown that about 35% of adults say premarital sex is always or almost always wrong. (Unpublished tabulations of data from the General Social Survey, 1982–2004.) In the same vein, there is a common popular perception that most or all of those who came of age before the “sexual revolution” of the 1960s and 1970s waited until they married to have sex, and that it is necessary to revert to the behaviors of that earlier time in order to eliminate the problems of unintended pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases. However, research has questioned whether such a chaste period ever existed.

...

Figure 1 shows the proportion of individuals in the 2002 survey who had had sex, had premarital sex, and married by each age; the Table contains the proportion who had had premarital sex by specific ages for all respondents and by gender, as well as the median age at first premarital sex for various subgroups. By the exact age of 20 years, 77% of individuals had had sex, and 75% had had sex before marriage; 12% had married. By exact age 44, 99% of Americans had had sex, 95% had had sex before marriage, and 85% had married. At that age, 3.3% had abstained until marriage, and 1.3% had neither married nor had sex. Thus, 97% of those who had ever had sex had done so premaritally at some point.

http://www.publichealthreports.org/userfiles/122_1/12_PHR122-1_73-78.pdf

 

[talloulou]

I think, deep down, that many in our society do wish that some teenagers would "abstain from sex forever".
Not their own teenagers, heaven forbid; but other ones. Poor ones. Ones with brown skin.

OMG sometimes you're too much. :2funny:

 

[talloulou]

So... what is so good about abstinence that we feel we must promote it, even though we regard our efforts as hopeless?

For the very same reasons that most parents teach their kids to abstain from smoking, drinking, drugs, ect knowing all the while that it's pretty damn unlikely that anyone makes it to 21 having remained entirely sober to that point. Drinking can be dangerous just like sex. So you put the fear in to them and hope it's enough to get them to wait a bit longer or at least do it sparingly as they have to go through all the trouble of hiding it. Teenagers, god bless them, are idiots. Many don't have the good sense to be afraid of even the most reckless behavior and half of them think they're immortal.

Tell your kid you're cool with them having sex and they'll have lots of it. Hell you'll probably come home to find them doing it in your god damn bed. That's what carefree liberal parenting will get you. Tell them wait and they may possibly wait a tad bit longer and when they do start having sex its highly unlikely that they will have the audacity to throw it in your face.

I don't want my kids to be ashamed of sex or have huge issues. But I want them to have enough shame that they don't get caught doing it in my damn bed! I want them to have some degree of tact.

 

[TheNextEra]

So you put the fear in to them and hope it's enough to get them to wait a bit longer or at least do it sparingly as they have to go through all the trouble of hiding it.

Yes, we all know the fearmongerers that conservatives really are. They aren't interested in actually teaching their kids anything only making them afraid of the world they live in.

Tell your kid you're cool with them having sex and they'll have lots of it. Hell you'll probably come home to find them doing it in your god damn bed. That's what carefree liberal parenting will get you. Tell them wait and they may possibly wait a tad bit longer and when they do start having sex its highly unlikely that they will have the audacity to throw it in your face.

Complete and utter Bullshit. No, my parents actually taught me instead of trying to put fear in me and that is what was needed.

I don't want my kids to be ashamed of sex or have huge issues. But I want them to have enough shame that they don't get caught doing it in my damn bed! I want them to have some degree of tact.

Just because a parent talks and educates their kids about sex instead of putting fear in them doesn't mean they are going to have sex in your bed. Jesus conservatives are getting whackier and whackier with their exteme BS.

 

[GarzaUK]

For the very same reasons that most parents teach their kids to abstain from smoking, drinking, drugs, ect knowing all the while that it's pretty damn unlikely that anyone makes it to 21 having remained entirely sober to that point. Drinking can be dangerous just like sex. So you put the fear in to them and hope it's enough to get them to wait a bit longer or at least do it sparingly as they have to go through all the trouble of hiding it. Teenagers, god bless them, are idiots. Many don't have the good sense to be afraid of even the most reckless behavior and half of them think they're immortal.

Tell your kid you're cool with them having sex and they'll have lots of it. Hell you'll probably come home to find them doing it in your god damn bed. That's what carefree liberal parenting will get you. Tell them wait and they may possibly wait a tad bit longer and when they do start having sex its highly unlikely that they will have the audacity to throw it in your face.

I don't want my kids to be ashamed of sex or have huge issues. But I want them to have enough shame that they don't get caught doing it in my damn bed! I want them to have some degree of tact.

The drinking age in my country is 18 years of age. My parents first intorduced me to drink at the age of 14 under their supervision. I first got drunk in visability of my parents when I was 16, millenium party, in fact in front of my grandmother if you want to know. BTW I didn't get really really wasted that night I knew how to control myself, in fact I helped my dad to bed and I was drunk all this at 16. When I went into nightclubs at 18 I knew my limits with booze, I knew how to handle myself in this situtation and I knew when to say enough is enough.

You make think you are protecting your kids from the worst. But in fact you are really preventing them from being prepared for the real world. To handle themselves in the real world, to be responsible in the real world. That is all your doing. Abstinence not only does this but does this in lethal levels.

I mean think about it a man can die for the US at aged 18 but can't buy a beer until he is 21. Do you really know how crazy that sounds???

 

[talloulou]

Just because a parent talks and educates their kids about sex instead of putting fear in them doesn't mean they are going to have sex in your bed. Jesus conservatives are getting whackier and whackier with their exteme BS.

Where did I ever say I wasn't gonna talk about it or teach them about safe sex? :roll: I will talk openly with my kids. I will let them know I think they should wait. They in turn will do whatever the heck it is they're gonna do. Advising them to wait is good advice. They may not follow it but it's good advice all the same. Sex can be dangerous both physically and emotionally. It probably is better to wait. Believe me there is no way my kids are gonna mistake me for some prude who they can't talk to however they will know that I think they are too young when in fact I do think they are too young.

All this nonsense about allowing kids to drink with you, smoke weed with you, and giving them permission to have sex as if kids have ever needed parental permission....WTF:roll: Kids aren't the problem. It's parents who are too cool to do their damn job. Advising your teenage daughter to hold off on having sex as long as possible is GOOD advice. It's safe advice. Telling my son to wait as long as possible is GOOD advice. It will serve him well. Whether or not he does wait is up to him but the kids that wait a bit are far better off than the ones who start at absurdly young ages. I also plan on teaching my son manners and I won't allow my daughter to leave with some jerk who pulls in the driveway and honks the horn.

I wouldn't go so far as to have my kids sign some crazy a$$ contract swearing they're pure but I will tell 'em I think they're too young and I think they should wait because sex can be dangerous and many young teens are not equipped to emotionally handle it well.

Ironically I'll also tell them that I do not believe people should wait till marriage to have sex. I think that's a little insane and I wouldn't want my kids marrying anyone they hadn't slept with yet. Again, in my mind that's good rock solid advice.

 

[talloulou]

I mean think about it a man can die for the US at aged 18 but can't buy a beer until he is 21. Do you really know how crazy that sounds???

Well you also can't smoke in the bar. It's a mad mad world. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with letting kids know "sex" is a fairly big issue and they should hold off till they're certain they're prepared to handle it.

 

[TheNextEra]

All this nonsense about allowing kids to drink with you, smoke weed with you, and giving them permission to have sex as if kids have ever needed parental permission..

Ironically I'll also tell them that I do not believe people should wait till marriage to have sex. I think that's a little insane and I wouldn't want my kids marrying anyone they hadn't slept with yet. Again, in my mind that's good rock solid advice.

Wait a minute first you say you wouldn't give them permission to have sex and then you said you tell them they shouldn't wait until their married?

Isn't that basically giving them permission?

 

[talloulou]

Wait a minute first you say you wouldn't give them permission to have sex and then you said you tell them they shouldn't wait until their married?

Isn't that basically giving them permission?

Why? When they seem too young to me I'll let 'em know I think they're too young and in my opinion they should probably wait. But they won't seem too young forever and ultimately they're the ones who will be deciding when they think they're old enough, not me. People on this thread have claimed there's no really good reason to tell kids to abstain. That's simply not true. There are plenty of reasons they should hold off. But holding off doesn't mean they should hold off forever and I personally feel that sexual compatability is a big part of marriage and thus I think waiting till after marriage to have sex is sorta counter productive. And if you're marrying as a virgin you're probably getting married too young. And yes I'll tell them to hold off on that too if I think they're too young. But as a rational woman I understand I can't make them do anything and in the end it will all be up to them. I just pass on the advice.

 

[Kasmos]

Why does this not come as a surprise... at all? Putting fear into the minds of kids does not accomplish anything. My parents openly talked about sex when I was 13. I had sex first at the age of 15. Now, whether, or not my parents barraged me with how "evil" sex was wasn't going to stop me from having sex in the situation I was in at 15. The only difference was is that I knew how to use a condom; I knew the importance of a condom; and guess what? I USED A CONDOM.

Abstinence only programs cause more harm then good.

But hey, at least the religious-right is happy and can go to sleep easy knowing that they still exist.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

For the very same reasons that most parents teach their kids to abstain from smoking, drinking, drugs, ect knowing all the while that it's pretty damn unlikely that anyone makes it to 21 having remained entirely sober to that point.

The difference is, I actually want my children not to smoke, not to use drugs, and not to get drunk. I'll even risk hoping that they not do these things after they've turned 21.

So you put the fear in to them and hope it's enough to get them to wait a bit longer or at least do it sparingly as they have to go through all the trouble of hiding it.

I do not want my children to hide anything, or ever feel like they have to. Hiding something is an expression of shame, that what you're doing is wrong. I want my children to do right, and to never have to hide their faces from doing wrong.

And having sex is not wrong. Irresponsibility is wrong, and you can't teach responsibility through fear.

Hell you'll probably come home to find them doing it in your god damn bed. That's what carefree liberal parenting will get you.

Heh. Soon as they hit puberty, I'm going to make them watch me put a bag of marbles in the freezer. I'm then going to make it clear that there's a reason they have their own beds.

I don't want my kids to be ashamed of sex or have huge issues. But I want them to have enough shame that they don't get caught doing it in my damn bed! I want them to have some degree of tact.

So teach them tact. Teach them to respect your property and your territory, so that when they have sex-- hopefully at an age you consider appropriate-- they will do so somewhere else.

 

[Kasmos]

Heh. Soon as they hit puberty, I'm going to make them watch me put a bag of marbles in the freezer. I'm then going to make it clear that there's a reason they have their own beds.

I loved everything you wrote, but I need a little explanation of this haha.

 

[rivrrat]

I loved everything you wrote, but I need a little explanation of this haha.

Yeah.. that kind whizzed right over my head too.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Glass marbles get really cold, and two people in a bed make a depression that the marbles will roll right into-- and stay there for as long as the people are.

 

[Kasmos]

Glass marbles get really cold, and two people in a bed make a depression that the marbles will roll right into-- and stay there for as long as the people are.

Hahaha, gottcha. That makes sense now (I had no idea what you were talking about before).

 

[ALiberalModerate]

For the very same reasons that most parents teach their kids to abstain from smoking, drinking, drugs, ect knowing all the while that it's pretty damn unlikely that anyone makes it to 21 having remained entirely sober to that point. Drinking can be dangerous just like sex. So you put the fear in to them and hope it's enough to get them to wait a bit longer or at least do it sparingly as they have to go through all the trouble of hiding it. Teenagers, god bless them, are idiots. Many don't have the good sense to be afraid of even the most reckless behavior and half of them think they're immortal.

Tell your kid you're cool with them having sex and they'll have lots of it. Hell you'll probably come home to find them doing it in your god damn bed. That's what carefree liberal parenting will get you. Tell them wait and they may possibly wait a tad bit longer and when they do start having sex its highly unlikely that they will have the audacity to throw it in your face.

I don't want my kids to be ashamed of sex or have huge issues. But I want them to have enough shame that they don't get caught doing it in my damn bed! I want them to have some degree of tact.

I agree with everything you wrote there. The only thing I will add is that I do want my kids to wait, but I also recognize that hardly anyone does.