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About the Indiana law...

it's just me said:
I've got news for you, gay isn't black, either, but that hasn't stopped the left from trying to make that case.
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sexual orientation is akin to race. being a nazi **** is a choice.
 
it's just me said:
"For all the insipid talk among its spokesmen about open-mindedness and tolerance, this strand of what liberal comedian Bill Maher dubs the "gay mafia" is a sworn enemy of both....Under Indiana's religious freedom law, not one Gen Con attendee (gay, transgender, cross-dressing) could be denied a seat at a lunch counter by that mythical boogeyman – the Christian bigot burger-maker with his "gaydar" fully activated. That's not what this law does.

Instead, it protects a private business owner (who might be gay themselves) from being coerced by the power of government to act in a manner incompatible with their deeply held religious convictions. In other words, it protects the Jewish sign maker from being forced by the state to make pro-Nazi placards for the next skinhead convention."

Pete Heck: Gay rights activists to Christians
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can't be a skinhead and a Nazi..... just pointing that out.
 
ludin said:
yep because they are the ones destroying peoples lives and I take offense to that. would you not agree?
I agree the market should sort it out for itself but that isn't the way that it works.

do you know that 13 gay bakeries refused to make a religious cake that said something about marriage is between a man and a women?
do you not realize that all 13 of those bakeries discriminated against someone based on their religious views?

that the state more than likely will not pursue those bakeries for discrimination?
there is a double standard being put in place by the law and peoples rights are being trampled on.

that is like the New mexico gay barber that refused to cut the Gov. hair because she is catholic and believes that marriage is between a man and a women.

do you not realize that is religious discrimination? should he have his business shut down or fine so much that it puts him out of business and he losses his home?
I don't.

that is the problem the market isn't deciding anything. it is being decided by lawyers and courts and that is not the way it should be.

if someone doesn't want my money heterosexual or gay that is fine I will find someone else that does want my money.
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"Gay marriage is wrong" is not a "religious cake". It is stupid to believe that. And at least one of them didn't even make cakes, only cookies and the guy still kept asking them to make a cake for him and why they wouldn't make a cake for him. They were refused service for the message on the cake or other product, not because of who they are or what it is being used for even. At least one offered to give them everything to put the message on it themselves. This would be no different than if the bakers refusing to provide a wedding cake to a same sex couple had simply refused to put the figures on top. There is nothing wrong with that.
 
it's just me said:
Who are the "extremists" on the other side, the baker who was run out of business?
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How about this guy?

Theodore Shoebat Says ISIS Is A Gay Cult And 'Fags' Want To Molest Children | People For the American Way

Or WBC?

Westboro Baptist Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or perhaps the preacher who said gays should be all placed inside electrified fences and allowed to "die out" because they can't reproduce? (A stupid comment since straight men cannot reproduce with only other straight men, nor can straight women only reproduce with other straight women, and gay people come from straight people.) Or maybe the preacher (who isn't the first or even last to suggest this) that wants to "slap" the gay out of little boys? There are many, many more.
 
roguenuke said:
How about this guy?

Theodore Shoebat Says ISIS Is A Gay Cult And 'Fags' Want To Molest Children | People For the American Way

Or WBC?

Westboro Baptist Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or perhaps the preacher who said gays should be all placed inside electrified fences and allowed to "die out" because they can't reproduce? (A stupid comment since straight men cannot reproduce with only other straight men, nor can straight women only reproduce with other straight women, and gay people come from straight people.) Or maybe the preacher (who isn't the first or even last to suggest this) that wants to "slap" the gay out of little boys? There are many, many more.
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And what percentage of Christendom do these couple of fringe idiots represent?
 
roguenuke said:
How about this guy?

Theodore Shoebat Says ISIS Is A Gay Cult And 'Fags' Want To Molest Children | People For the American Way

Or WBC?

Westboro Baptist Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or perhaps the preacher who said gays should be all placed inside electrified fences and allowed to "die out" because they can't reproduce? (A stupid comment since straight men cannot reproduce with only other straight men, nor can straight women only reproduce with other straight women, and gay people come from straight people.) Or maybe the preacher (who isn't the first or even last to suggest this) that wants to "slap" the gay out of little boys? There are many, many more.
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you pointed out exactly why this non-sense must stop and it won't till the courts and government decide to get their nose out of it and let the economy and people do the talking.
until then it will only escalate with more and more lawsuits against people just wanting to run their business the way they want.
 
countryboy said:
And what percentage of Christendom do these couple of fringe idiots represent?
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<1% probably. there are about 2.18 billion Christians around the world.
there are about 85 people that attend westboro.

so divide it out and it is a very small number.
 
countryboy said:
And what percentage of Christendom do these couple of fringe idiots represent?
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Doesn't matter. There are a lot of people who agree with at least one or more of these idiots, these extremists. Please show what percentage of same sex marriage supporters, gay rights supporters (not just gays) agree with their "extremists" (providing examples of the "extremists" and explaining what makes their position "extreme").
 
ludin said:
<1% probably. there are about 2.18 billion Christians around the world.
there are about 85 people that attend westboro.

so divide it out and it is a very small number.
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You yourself supported the Ted Shoebat guy. Posted his "test of gay bakers" several times. So what percent support such extremists?
 
ludin said:
you pointed out exactly why this non-sense must stop and it won't till the courts and government decide to get their nose out of it and let the economy and people do the talking.
until then it will only escalate with more and more lawsuits against people just wanting to run their business the way they want.
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The same things happened 40 years ago. Eventually, it dies out as more and more people grow up and the demographics of support change. That is what really causes these things to change and become nonissues. This is why I actually agree with the "identifying those who discriminate" law that others didn't like. If people want to discriminate against a certain group of people, for whatever reason and even if only on certain things, they need to put that out openly so that people can make informed decisions on whether to support their business or not.
 
roguenuke said:
You yourself supported the Ted Shoebat guy. Posted his "test of gay bakers" several times. So what percent support such extremists?
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nope I didn't support him. I simply was showing an example of what this is escalating into. it is only going to get worse.
I posted it once maybe twice.

why? because while you want to rant and rave against discrimination you find it ok to discriminate against peoples religious views.
when confronted with that fact you then start making excuses as to why all of a sudden it isn't discrimination.

I personally think it is getting out of hand and will get even worse. you will see a bigger backlash of religious people if they continued to be pressed.
you forget that Christianity thrives in persecution. it was born in persecution and expanded further under even more persecution.
 
roguenuke said:
The same things happened 40 years ago. Eventually, it dies out as more and more people grow up and the demographics of support change. That is what really causes these things to change and become nonissues. This is why I actually agree with the "identifying those who discriminate" law that others didn't like. If people want to discriminate against a certain group of people, for whatever reason and even if only on certain things, they need to put that out openly so that people can make informed decisions on whether to support their business or not.
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the government can't force you to incriminate yourself it is against the law.
 
ludin said:
nope I didn't support him. I simply was showing an example of what this is escalating into. it is only going to get worse.
I posted it once maybe twice.

why? because while you want to rant and rave against discrimination you find it ok to discriminate against peoples religious views.
when confronted with that fact you then start making excuses as to why all of a sudden it isn't discrimination.

I personally think it is getting out of hand and will get even worse. you will see a bigger backlash of religious people if they continued to be pressed.
you forget that Christianity thrives in persecution. it was born in persecution and expanded further under even more persecution.
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No. If a baker refused to make a cake for a gay rights supporter that said "support gay rights", I would actually not have any issue with that at all. That is not the same thing as refusing to bake a cake for a same sex wedding. A wedding cake doesn't say anything on it. There is no words (normally) on a wedding cake. So long as the baker refused to make a cake for anyone that said "support gay rights", then I see nothing wrong with that action because he/she is not refusing due to the person being gay or straight or bisexual or white, black, man, woman, of a certain religion, or atheist. The refusal is based purely on the message asked to be written on the cake. I believe it would be best if the baker did what many of the "gay rights supporting" bakers have offered, bake the cake up to the message, then provide supplies to write the message themselves.
 
roguenuke said:
Doesn't matter. There are a lot of people who agree with at least one or more of these idiots, these extremists. Please show what percentage of same sex marriage supporters, gay rights supporters (not just gays) agree with their "extremists" (providing examples of the "extremists" and explaining what makes their position "extreme").
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It may not matter to you, but it matters to most thinking people. Furthermore, I would submit that lunatic fringe groups such as WBC, don't represent Christendom at all.
 
roguenuke said:
No. If a baker refused to make a cake for a gay rights supporter that said "support gay rights", I would actually not have any issue with that at all. That is not the same thing as refusing to bake a cake for a same sex wedding. A wedding cake doesn't say anything on it. There is no words (normally) on a wedding cake. So long as the baker refused to make a cake for anyone that said "support gay rights", then I see nothing wrong with that action because he/she is not refusing due to the person being gay or straight or bisexual or white, black, man, woman, of a certain religion, or atheist. The refusal is based purely on the message asked to be written on the cake. I believe it would be best if the baker did what many of the "gay rights supporting" bakers have offered, bake the cake up to the message, then provide supplies to write the message themselves.
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You clearly just don't get it, and likely never will.
 
countryboy said:
It may not matter to you, but it matters to most thinking people. Furthermore, I would submit that lunatic fringe groups such as WBC, don't represent Christendom at all.
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And those like the shooter at the anti-gay organization do not represent gay rights supporters. But there are many opponents of gay rights who think those who simply support same sex marriage or support protections for homosexuals and others are "extremists". So I could easily go that same direction and give you many more equivalent "extremists" from the anti-gay rights/ssm side.

So how about providing those people who are "extremists" from the side of those who support gay rights/ssm and we can compare.
 
countryboy said:
You clearly just don't get it, and likely never will.
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You are the one who doesn't get it. Our laws, our public accommodation/anti-discrimination laws work a specific way. Refusal to write a specific message on a cake is in no way the same under the law as refusing to bake a cake for people based on who they are or being of a certain type of person.
 
Declan said:
As is true with most things based on the content of your posts thus far....
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Well, I certainly wouldn't know anything about wife beater shirts or wife beating.
 
Declan said:
Wife beaters don't have sleeves, so arm bands leave a tan line.
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You know what? All of a sudden it hit me that I missed the joke in this post. A thousand pardons....
 
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