Abortion Statistics and Thoughts [W:59]

[Ikari]

I could feel Objective-J's pain of the loss of his friend when I read his post and I knew the loss was tragic to him ( and to me because I have empathy).

I can feel the pain of loss of any loss of life. Even the aborted fetus is tragic for the life that will never be lived. Loss of life in general is tragic and we should do our best to avoid it.

 

[AGENT J]

I can feel the pain of loss of any loss of life. Even the aborted fetus is tragic for the life that will never be lived. Loss of life in general is tragic and we should do our best to avoid it.

nothing wrong with that opinion

but IMO theres lots loss of life I feel no pain for at all nor is loss of life always tragic for me :shrug:

I certainly dont feel pain over abortions, I think its unfortunate but I dont feel pain or find it tragic at all, at least not the vast majority of voluntary medical abortions.

I do agree we should do are best to avoid loss of life though but whats realistic and best varies.

 

[minnie616]

I do not feel pain or find it tragic in the cases where the woman chooses an early medical abortion for an unwanted pregnancy.

I do feel it tragc when a wanted pregnacy needs to be thereputicly aborted because the womans life is at risk or irrepairable damage to a major bodily fuction would take place.
I also feel it is traic when the fetus has died in womb or the fetus is so malformed it will be either be stillborn or will only live live a few minutes or hours.

 

[Ikari]

I do not feel pain or find it tragic in the cases where the woman chooses an early medical abortion for an unwanted pregnancy.

I think that may just be limitations to your empathy.

It is tragic when the unborn human life suffers natural deformation and cannot function as human. Most unfortunate indeed, a consequence of biology and our fundamental DNA building blocks, but still tragic. It is also tragic when pregnancy threatens the life of a mother as well. I'm not one to say abortion should be across the board illegal. There are certainly legitimate medical considerations. But not all pregnancy ends in death or irreparable harm and in those cases....is it not tragic that human life is snuffed out for mere convenience?

 

[AGENT J]

I think that may just be limitations to your empathy.

It is tragic when the unborn human life suffers natural deformation and cannot function as human. Most unfortunate indeed, a consequence of biology and our fundamental DNA building blocks, but still tragic. It is also tragic when pregnancy threatens the life of a mother as well. I'm not one to say abortion should be across the board illegal. There are certainly legitimate medical considerations. But not all pregnancy ends in death or irreparable harm and in those cases....is it not tragic that human life is snuffed out for mere convenience?

whether or not "all" pregnancies ends in death is meaningless IMO should not be FORCED to risk your life no matter the stats

also again what is your opinion of convenience could greatly differ from mine, or your neighbors

 

[Scrabaholic]

While there are certainly risks to pregnancy, how many are truly a threat to one's life? It's certainly not zero, there are deaths due to complications of pregnancy. But it's not 100% either. If the mother's life is not at risk, is it fair to say she can snuff out the life she carries? I don't know, I have a hard time seeing humans innately as property.

There is a lower maternal death rate from legal abortion. Nobody should be able to force a woman to take a greater risk.

Even if the maternal death rate was 0, there are other complications of pregnancy that could affect her for the rest of her life. For example, depleted calcium levels can lead to loss of teeth, gestational diabetes is a risk factor for developing type 2 diabetes, and diabetes of either type has a huge list of complications.

 

[Scrabaholic]

I can feel the pain of loss of any loss of life. Even the aborted fetus is tragic for the life that will never be lived.

I believe it will be lived, just in another body.

 

[D-tron]

Well, that just defeated your "cover up the pro-choice bigotry of ageism we're doing" effort, Choiceone .. big-time.

Truly, truly disgusting.

So, this-

and these-

Are equal to her-

?

Out of the zygote, the embryo, or the girl, who would YOU save? Who would YOU protect? The cells that are dividing? The embryo that is forming? Or the child that is in your presence and breathing and an individual person? And remember, in your opinion, all three have an age.

I can feel the pain of loss of any loss of life. Even the aborted fetus is tragic for the life that will never be lived. Loss of life in general is tragic and we should do our best to avoid it.

Someone close to me dying, I think, is much more tragic. Comparing the abortion (elective and spontaneous alike) of a fetus to a person that dies, that did have a life in which you both cared for one another... I couldn't imagine.

I do not feel pain or find it tragic in the cases where the woman chooses an early medical abortion for an unwanted pregnancy.

I do feel it tragc when a wanted pregnacy needs to be thereputicly aborted because the womans life is at risk or irrepairable damage to a major bodily fuction would take place.
I also feel it is traic when the fetus has died in womb or the fetus is so malformed it will be either be stillborn or will only live live a few minutes or hours.

My mother and I were just talking about this. For instance, a woman who has just found out that she has not only an aggressive cancer that is in a later stage of progression; things that are aggressive like this should and need to be treated fast. However, she is also six months pregnant. Depending on the cancer, the severity of aggressiveness, and how far it has metastasized, she could be at risk just for performing an emergency c-section to try and save the baby. So now, she has to choose her own life, or that of her (depending on her decision) baby's.

This kind of stuff happens more than people think.

 

[ChrisL]

Yes, they are ALL living beings. Those ZED pictures are the earliest stages of the development to create that child. Without them, you could not have her.

So, this-

and these-

Are equal to her-

?

Out of the zygote, the embryo, or the girl, who would YOU save? Who would YOU protect? The cells that are dividing? The embryo that is forming? Or the child that is in your presence and breathing and an individual person? And remember, in your opinion, all three have an age.



Someone close to me dying, I think, is much more tragic. Comparing the abortion (elective and spontaneous alike) of a fetus to a person that dies, that did have a life in which you both cared for one another... I couldn't imagine.



My mother and I were just talking about this. For instance, a woman who has just found out that she has not only an aggressive cancer that is in a later stage of progression; things that are aggressive like this should and need to be treated fast. However, she is also six months pregnant. Depending on the cancer, the severity of aggressiveness, and how far it has metastasized, she could be at risk just for performing an emergency c-section to try and save the baby. So now, she has to choose her own life, or that of her (depending on her decision) baby's.

This kind of stuff happens more than people think.

 

[D-tron]

Yes, they are ALL living beings. Those ZED pictures are the earliest stages of the development to create that child. Without them, you could not have her.

If you could only save one, then which would you choose to save from death?

 

[ChrisL]

If you could only save one, then which would you choose to save from death?

What do you mean which would I choose? Like I said, all of those ARE her, just not yet completely developed. If I choose to abort the ZED, then I wouldn't have a little girl either. Did you know that the brain, spinal cord and nerves are the first things to develop in an embryo?

 

[ChrisL]

Your Baby's Development: The First Trimester -- FamilyDoctor.org

Some of the highlights of your baby’s development during the embryonic stage include:

Nervous system. This is one of the first things to develop during the embryonic stage. This means your baby’s brain, spinal cord and nerves form during this stage.
Heart. An S-shaped tube forms on the front of the embryo. This will become your baby’s heart. At first the heart does not beat, but soon it starts beating and pumping an early form of blood.
Face. Your baby's facial features take shape during the embryonic stage. The eyes and ears form on the sides of the head and are linked to the brain. The eyes move forward on the face, and eyelids form to protect the developing eyes. Pieces of tissue grow and join together to create the forehead, nose, cheeks, lips and jaw. The nasal passages, mouth, tooth buds for the baby's first teeth, and a tongue with taste buds also develop.
Arms and legs. At first, your baby's arms and legs begin as little buds sprouting from the embryo's sides. As they grow, the arms look like paddles and the legs like flippers. A ridge appears on the end of each one, eventually becoming fingers and toes.
Sexual organs. Cells that will become your baby's eggs or sperm form. Your baby’s penis or vagina is visible at the end of the embryonic period, but it's not yet possible to tell on an ultrasound if your baby is a girl or a boy.
Muscles and movement. Muscles develop and the embryo begins to move. At first it’s only twitching and reacting to touch. Once the nerves and muscles start working together, your baby can start moving on purpose.
By the end of the embryonic stage at week 10, the embryo will be about 1 inch long. That's still too small for you to feel your baby's movements. You'll probably feel them starting in the middle of the second trimester.

 

[AGENT J]

So, this-

and these-

Are equal to her-

?

Out of the zygote, the embryo, or the girl, who would YOU save? Who would YOU protect? The cells that are dividing? The embryo that is forming? Or the child that is in your presence and breathing and an individual person? And remember, in your opinion, all three have an age.

excelent question

while this type of stuff has no impact to me being pro-choice Ill answer anyway.

Im in some medical faclity in the future, theres a room full of zygotes, a room full of 8wk embryos and a room with the little girl in it.

The building is on fire and I can only safe myself and one of the three.

I pick the little girl every time theres not even any debate that goes on in my head because logical for me theres no reason to have one :shrug:

but again this has very little to do with me being prochoice

 

[D-tron]

What do you mean which would I choose? Like I said, all of those ARE her, just not yet completely developed. If I choose to abort the ZED, then I wouldn't have a little girl either. Did you know that the brain, spinal cord and nerves are the first things to develop in an embryo?

They are separate. As in the zygote exists, the embryo exists, and the child exists- all at the same time.

It's similar to how Objective-J considered and answered it.

 

[ChrisL]

They are separate. As in the zygote exists, the embryo exists, and the child exists- all at the same time.

It's similar to how Objective-J considered and answered it.

No, if you abort the ZED, then you won't have the child. We are not talking about a fire here. The topic is abortion.

 

[D-tron]

If you looked at my original post and who I quoted after posting what I did, you would notice that I was responding to Ontologuy's comment about choiceone's comment.

He brought up ageism, since choiceone made a comment about most not comparing a one-year-old to a ZEF. He accordingly called her an ageist.

He refers to ageism because in his opinion, the age of the future child actually begins at conception. Therefore (in his opinion), choiceone thought that the one-year-old was more important than the ZEF, BECAUSE the one-year-old was older.

So I challenged him. Yes, this topic is abortion, but MANY other people have brought about different topics.

 

[AGENT J]

No, if you abort the ZED, then you won't have the child. We are not talking about a fire here. The topic is abortion.

Whats a ZED acronym for?

 

[AGENT J]

If you looked at my original post and who I quoted after posting what I did, you would notice that I was responding to Ontologuy's comment about choiceone's comment.

He brought up ageism, since choiceone made a comment about most not comparing a one-year-old to a ZEF. He accordingly called her an ageist.

He refers to ageism because in his opinion, the age of the future child actually begins at conception. Therefore (in his opinion), choiceone thought that the one-year-old was more important than the ZEF, BECAUSE the one-year-old was older.

So I challenged him. Yes, this topic is abortion, but MANY other people have brought about different topics.

Pro-choicers being "ageist" is totally made up, many of us have asked for proof of this and we have all received the same amount. NONE

 

[ChrisL]

Whats a ZED acronym for?

LOL! Typo you smartass!

 

[D-tron]

And in response to "if the zygote didn't exist, she wouldn't exist."

Yes, you are right. However, in my opinion, a zygote is not a human being, but instead part of the beginning stages of the development of a human being. When the fetus is born, it has completed its development into a human being.

 

[ChrisL]

If you looked at my original post and who I quoted after posting what I did, you would notice that I was responding to Ontologuy's comment about choiceone's comment.

He brought up ageism, since choiceone made a comment about most not comparing a one-year-old to a ZEF. He accordingly called her an ageist.

He refers to ageism because in his opinion, the age of the future child actually begins at conception. Therefore (in his opinion), choiceone thought that the one-year-old was more important than the ZEF, BECAUSE the one-year-old was older.

So I challenged him. Yes, this topic is abortion, but MANY other people have brought about different topics.

Well, I don't know about ageism and his opinions. I would just hope that women would take having an abortion seriously, and not be like "oh well, it's just an embryo." It is an early human life.

 

[D-tron]

Well, I don't know about ageism and his opinions. I would just hope that women would take having an abortion seriously, and not be like "oh well, it's just an embryo." It is an early human life.

You and I may not agree on it being an early human life, but make no mistake- I certainly take abortion seriously. I, myself, am not 100% on abortion, for a reason. I am pro-choice, but not going out and screaming, "YEAH, ALL WOMEN GET ABORTIONS."

While I may not see a zygote as a human, I do see that I (along with my husband) will play a part in its development. Therefore, the zygote is our zygote. I can find something beautiful in a zygote, an embryo, and a fetus without believing that they're human beings.

 

[AGENT J]

LOL! Typo you smartass!

LOL
hahahaha

thats funny, I was being serious though because you did it a couple times and I thought maybe you were using something else

and NOW that I look at my keyboard that pesky little D is right next to the F.

Hell I got no room to talk I am a HORRIBLE typer, mainly because typically Im never just doing one thing but horrible none the less

 

[ChrisL]

LOL
hahahaha

thats funny, I was being serious though because you did it a couple times and I thought maybe you were using something else

and NOW that I look at my keyboard that pesky little D is right next to the F.

Hell I got no room to talk I am a HORRIBLE typer, mainly because typically Im never just doing one thing but horrible none the less

I'm usually an excellent typist. I don't know what my problem is tonight. Making lots of mistakes with my typing. :roll:

 

[Ikari]

I believe it will be lived, just in another body.

Well that's convenient, isn't it.