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Abortion Rights Are Reshaping American Politics

I really think there's something wrong with identifying personhood with being male or female, with having sex. There are sites on which you can read about the difficulty medical professionals have in deciding whether the newborn is male or female in some cases, because they have to deal with more than just genetic code.

Josie brings us to a point where, if the professionals are having such troubles, an embryo of fetus is supposedly like a newborn because of the sexual assignment they choose, as if personhood came from them. That's ridiculous. Conjoined twins with two functional heads are two persons. It has nothing to do with sex.
 
Josie said:
Can you please explain why a couple doing IVF know the gender of their embryos? (Hint: The answer is in your own post.)
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They don't. They rely upon the lab tech to have done the DNA analysis correctly, & to have told them the truth. This knowledge relies upon the expertise of the techs, & a fair amount of progress in applied medical optics, computers & software.
 
southwest88 said:
They don't. They rely upon the lab tech to have done the DNA analysis correctly, & to have told them the truth. This knowledge relies upon the expertise of the techs, & a fair amount of progress in applied medical optics, computers & software.
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Yes. The DNA analysis shows if the embryos are male or female because sex chromosomes are assigned at conception. The gender of the baby has been established before sex organs are formed.
 
Josie said:
Yes. The DNA analysis shows if the embryos are male or female because sex chromosomes are assigned at conception. The gender of the baby has been established before sex organs are formed.
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That's a quaint turn of phrase - sex chromosomes are assigned. Are you implying that God assigns them? It must be an exhausting job, given the 8 billion+ number of humans on Earth. That works out to about 22,000,000 assignations/day - whew! (Of course, that's just taking the estimated World population & dividing it by the number of days/year.) Or perhaps He was a CPA in an earlier incarnation?

The fetus' & baby's gender is genetically determined, to be sure. However, the expression of the genes can be helped or hindered by meds, environmental causes, radiation, accident, etc. So I'd go easy with established, all things considered.
 
southwest88 said:
That's a quaint turn of phrase - sex chromosomes are assigned. Are you implying that God assigns them? It must be an exhausting job, given the 8 billion+ number of humans on Earth. That works out to about 22,000,000 assignations/day - whew! (Of course, that's just taking the estimated World population & dividing it by the number of days/year.) Or perhaps He was a CPA in an earlier incarnation?

The fetus' & baby's gender is genetically determined, to be sure. However, the expression of the genes can be helped or hindered by meds, environmental causes, radiation, accident, etc. So I'd go easy with established, all things considered.
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You can use whatever term you want. The point is that an unborn human is a "he" or "she" from conception. The pronoun "it" is unscientific.
 
Josie said:
Can you please explain why a couple doing IVF know the gender of their embryos? (Hint: The answer is in your own post.)
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Because they are gender shopping and, unlike everyone else, can choose the gender of their child. Notice how the word "choice" keeps making an appearance....
 
Galactic Spin said:
Because they are gender shopping and, unlike everyone else, can choose the gender of their child. Notice how the word "choice" keeps making an appearance....
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Which means those embryos are either "he" or "she," right?
 
Galactic Spin said:
Hello 3 pages ago

Zzzzz
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Right. Where you said an unborn human is an "it" because..... you say so. :D

If you don't want to continue the same conversation, stop replying about the same conversation.
 
Josie said:
Right. Where you said an unborn human is an "it" because..... you say so.
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Yes, I will refer to an embryo as "it" in some contexts. Unlike yourself, I am not demanding you or anyone else comply with my preferences. You still haven't quite grasped that.

But since your entire diatribe from the start is about controlling half the population.. well that just makes sense.
 
Galactic Spin said:
Yes, I will refer to an embryo as "it" in some contexts. Unlike yourself, I am not demanding you or anyone else comply with my preferences. You still haven't quite grasped that.

But since your entire diatribe from the start is about controlling half the population.. well that just makes sense.
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They aren't "my preferences". They are biological fact. But you are free to speak as if you've never had 5th grade biology if you want. 🤷
 
Josie said:
They aren't "my preferences". They are biological fact.
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Nobody denied that. One doesn't deny biological fact to call a spider "it". Nor a human embryo.

Yes, your use in different contexts is indeed a personal preference. You just cannot seem to grasp that your attempts to lend authority to your demands is just not compelling.
 
Josie said:
Everyone does. A fetus is different from a born human in several ways. However, the way they are the same is that they all have an assigned sex. You think they don't, for some weird reason.
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Until the sex organs are developed, the fetus has no sex. Stop spewing boilerplate bullshit, please.
Josie said:
Yes. The DNA analysis shows if the embryos are male or female because sex chromosomes are assigned at conception. The gender of the baby has been established before sex organs are formed.
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Not correct.

When Does a Baby Develop Gender?

When Does a Baby Develop Gender?
www.hellomotherhood.com www.hellomotherhood.com
 
NatMorton said:
But not law that was enacted democratically, and that's the point.

And no, I'm not just defending the Dobbs decision. I'm celebrating it as perhaps the most wonderfully important SCOTUS decision in my lifetime.
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It is a bad decision that will be reversed.

Count on it.
 
Josie said:
And a fetus dies in every abortion.
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Incorrect. It might be an embryo or it might already be dead. As for the ones that do die in abortion - whoop de diddly ****ing do.



Josie said:
The victims in elective abortions are the humans being killed.
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0 human beings are killed in abortion.
 
Scrabaholic said:
"It" is proper when sex is unknown, teach.
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Incorrect just as when you don't know the gender of someone here, you wouldn't call them "it".
 
Josie said:
Dude - a ZEF has a sex from conception. That's why during IVF, the doctors can tell you which embryos are male and which are female.


From your link:

Gender is determined immediately upon fertilization.
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That is purely genetic. The actual sex organs do not develop right away.

There is no way to know which sex the baby is until the 4th-6th week.

Nice try.
 
Josie said:
It would matter. If you would've said that you're not cool with someone calling a born human "it," then you're hypocritical for calling an unborn human "it". After all, none of them are objects and all of them have sex chromosomes.

If you would've said that you are cool with someone calling a born human "it," then you look like an ass to everyone on all sides.
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Not to me.


Josie said:
You call a fetus an "it" because he/she has no value to you even though they are humans just like me or you.
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Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!! They are not persons/human beings. FACT.
 
Josie said:
You can use whatever term you want. The point is that an unborn human is a "he" or "she" from conception. The pronoun "it" is unscientific.
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We're discussing human biology. Biology isn't on or off, it's biologic - & shades off into all kinds of permutations, some quite beyond human understanding (so far, @ least). The scientific/medical nomenclature should follow reality, not attempt to inform it. If the gender of a given fetus is not obvious, it's better (more accurate) to reflect that ambiguity, than to attempt to fix something that isn't broken.
 
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