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Abortion rate is already extremly low! [W:54]

AGENT J

"If you ain't first, you're last"
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Now anybody that has been around the abortion forum knows my stances on abortion. Im pro-choice because abortion is about choosing the rights of the woman or the rights of the ZEF, each case is unique but the fact will always be one must be chosen over the other. I the majority of the time go with the woman and I want that choice to exist that makes me prochoice.

With that said I would like to see the number of abortions reduced but it seems we are already doing an amazingly great job at that.

Abortions have been going down overall since their peak 1990 and doing some research (Which I always do) its seems the avg american has sex 83-85 times a year. (below the global avg of about 108 times a year)

Now america's population is 315 million.

thats about 26,775,000,000 individual sex acts

so half that because of partners is 13,387,500,000 acts of intercourse a year.

Last conclusive stats for abortion were in 09 at about 1.22 mil

thats about .005% abortions per acts of sex.

sex results in abortion .005% of the time

Really blows the nonsensical rhetoric out of the water about all these people running around so irresponsible banging everything that moves unsafely.

In reality thats EXTREMELY low and with out technology I dont know if we really impact that number with anything at all.

we actually do an amazingly great job at avoiding abortion.

now with that said I dont just want to sit back and do nothing i still want to TRY and improve that number I just dont think it happens without technology.

this is from another thread.


so what do you think? you have more ideas to add to the above?
do you still think we do such a terrible job at preventing abortions?
 
Jetboogieman said:
You already know where I stand on this subject so we'll move past that

But I do have to ask how you're calculating this number?
Click to expand...

hey hey whats up jet!?

315,000,000 X 85 (avg amount of times a person has sex annually in america.)

then divided by 2 to get the 13,387,500,000 act of intercourse


is that what you are asking?
 
Objective-J said:
hey hey whats up jet!?

315,000,000 X 85 (avg amount of times a person has sex annually in america.)

then divided by 2 to get the 13,387,500,000 act of intercourse


is that what you are asking?
Click to expand...

315,000,000?
 
Objective-J said:
is that what you are asking?
Click to expand...

Yeah just wanted to see how you were coming up with the number.

I think though you may want to revisit some of your variables... as you probably shouldn't be counting the child population of America among other things...
 
joko104 said:
315,000,000?
Click to expand...

yes the population of the us is 314,440,947

and I know what you are probably thinking, all of them dont have sex, yes this is true this is why its an avg.

I personally have sex at least 365 times a year but its probably more like 400 and some people (children infants elderly) have sex 0 times a year thats why its an avg of 83-85 per person
 
Jetboogieman said:
Yeah just wanted to see how you were coming up with the number.

I think though you may want to revisit some of your variables... as you probably shouldn't be counting the child population of America among other things...
Click to expand...
of course I should thats how an avg is determined, the avg is called PER PERSON in the us

not per adult, so children and elderly have sex 0 times but I have sex 365 times a year easy

but if people dont like that number ill gladly use 100million and get 8,500,000,000 individual acts which is 4,250,000,000 act of intercourse

for .03%


basically even if people want to argue it, not saying you, and cut that number in 1/5 you are still gonna end up with less than probably 1% which is still very very low
 
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well, i guess it's settled then.

you folks that have a problem with abortion can all rest easy now.... they have come up with an incredibly low number that is supposed to represent abortion being virtually nonexistent
 
IIRC something like 85% of abortions in the US happen before 12 weeks, and 95% by 20 weeks, well before any possibility of personhood/survival.
 
Thrilla said:
well, i guess it's settled then.

you folks that have a problem with abortion can all rest easy now.... they have come up with an incredibly low number that is supposed to represent abortion being virtually nonexistent
Click to expand...

well thats not what I was trying to do or actually did at all. I just stated facts.

I was simply destroying the dishonesty and biased rhetoric some people have when they act like abortion happens so rampantly and that that there is all thes people having them and its because they sex crazed irresponsible sluts and gigolos lol

i personally still want to try to improve the number im just tired of people acting like society is so careless, irresponsible, immoral on this issue and its people not respecting or valuing life lol

the point of the thread is abortions are extremely low and in reality the vast majority of people are obviously very careful so any solutions we come up with probably wont have a substantially impact but I want to do them anyway and im curious if people have more to add to me list?

do you have more solutions to add to my list?
 
Manc Skipper said:
IIRC something like 85% of abortions in the US happen before 12 weeks, and 95% by 20 weeks, well before any possibility of personhood/survival.
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its actually even higher than that 98.5% of all abortions happen before 20 weeks

its also why I wouldnt fight a national cap on when abortion could be performed around that same time.
of course it would be a soft cap and certain situations would still apply where they would be allowed.
 
Thrilla said:
well, i guess it's settled then.

you folks that have a problem with abortion can all rest easy now.... they have come up with an incredibly low number that is supposed to represent abortion being virtually nonexistent
Click to expand...

If there is more current info, I hope somebody shares it. Meanwhile, the Guttmacher's 2011 report states that in 2008, 1.21 million abortions were performed. From 1973 to 2008, 50 million were performed.

Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States
 

more current in what way?

the sex rates I found were from 2007-2009 (83-85)
the populations is accurate by todays date
the abortions were from 2009 (1.22mil)

even if all the numbers were accurate to todays date to you think there would be a significant change?
 
I prefer to think of it as 'adverting the situation entirely - rather than 'preventing abortion' - it just seems to encompass all the things that happen before pregnancy even occurs.

If I valued my own self more in high school I wouldn't have thrown myself at the first boy who showed the slightest bit of interest in me - and who promptly knocked me up.
 

Do you think that theres anything in the OP that would of helped you achieve that including your open talks part.
Another aspect I dont stress enough is that parents must be involved in all these steps also.

anyway back to the point what do you think would have accomplished that goal for you?
do you think that theres a lot of girls like that could that goal been accomplished the same way for them?
 

Well - I never had an abortion. I never considered it. 5 pregnancies, one ended with a miscarriage and I have 4 children . . . would I do it differently? Well no - of course not . . .but what to do to avoid the same for my children?

Be frank about sex - and often, not just a tri-yearly awkward discussion . . . and let them know that that's how they got here - that's the purpose of sex. . . and sex comes with qutie a few dangerous 'afters' - everything form disease to pregnancy and various health conditions.

I have several long term health issues relate to pregnancy - back and leg problems, physical disfigurement . . . etc. I'm not about to shirk truth and reality because it makes me uncomfortable.

And that includes talking to my children like they're *there* . . . I remember when I lost my virginity - it was on my first date with a guy - and my parents gave *him* a 'talking to about treating their daughter right' . . . . but if that were me I'd say 'no sex - and if you dare have sex you better use a condom . . . ' - nothing vague and I wouldn't *not* talk about it with my kids like my parents did! My parents told me "we just assumed you didn't like boys or the idea of having sex"

Who the hell is that stupid? Oh yes - my parents were that stupid.

I mean - frank and upfront. Sex is down a dirty - so should the cautionary talks . . . down and outright dirty (since that's how most people feel about the subject) If it won't put a kink in their plans it'll at least bring up the undeniable reality . . . "that's how you got here - do you want ot have a kid right now? If you end up pregnant what would you do?"

And for my sons . . . Oh my God - a talk will go something like 'don't you dare violate her - would you want your sister being touched by her boyfriend?' . . . because all 3 of them are all about protecting and loving their sister. Do I think it would stop two teens from ****ing? No - LOL - god no . . . but it might make them stop and think just a smidge. That's the goal = use your brain, too!

I know them inside and out - and I know what it's like being a teen . . . hell - I might just end up buying condoms just to be on the safe side. LOL I KNOW they'll have sex no matter what I say or do so at least I can educate and bring it to the forefront of their thoughts - and concerns. . . I'd definitely have a 'if you have sex and you/she ends up pregnant what on earth will you do?''

LOL - knowing how I've handled situations they'll be sent to the library to do RESEARCH and write me an ESSAY on teen pregnancy and parenting. Yep - assignments. I'm not going ot have my kids be so stupid (like I was) that they don't even THINK of the possibility of getting knocked up.

I'd go beyond that - bc fail rate statistics . . . **** - that's how my first son arrived = the pull out theory is full of hormonal teen ****.

I remember asking my parents "if it's wrong why do you do it?" and they said "well - it feels good . . . but you shouldn't." -- so you know what I'll say when my kids ask me that. "It feels good - because pregnancy and child-rearing is such a difficult pain in the ASS if sex didn't feel good no one would ever have kids!" . . . because that's the honest to God truth behind it all. It feels good so we will have it and then later deal with labor pains.
 
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all good stuff I like it, real talk is KEY in my opinion.
and I didnt mean to imply you had an abortion, sorry, I was asking how you would avoid your situations in general which you still kind of answered, thanks.
 
Objective-J said:
all good stuff I like it, real talk is KEY in my opinion.
and I didnt mean to imply you had an abortion, sorry, I was asking how you would avoid your situations in general which you still kind of answered, thanks.
Click to expand...

It's cool - I'm tipsy so I'm good for anything right now.

And that's also how kids are made (being drunk) - see - having been a sex addict I probably have experienced more sex than my kids ever would. . . I can caution then about wyas they'd never dream of .
 
The premise of this thread is simply rediculous. The abortion rate is not a comparison of aborted pregnancies to frequency of sexual intercourse. It is a comparison of induced abortions to live births.

However, if it did have any merit, I suppose we should not be at all concerned with making laws against murder either. After all, the murder rate is lower than the abortion rate. Right?
 

Abortions to live births? What fun is that? You need to enjoy your statistics more! I say he didn’t go far enough. We should compare the number of abortions to the number of sperm created. I mean abortion pretty much doesn’t happen if you consider how many sperm we prevent from joining with an egg in the first place.

And why stop at abortion? Look at gun deaths vs. number of bullets manufactured. Look at heart attack deaths vs. the number of times everyone’s heart beats. I mean, there is really no need to worry about anything.
 


so basically you want to make up special rules that are a reflection of reality to suit your own agenda? got it

the premise of my thread is 100% accurate has it address the nonsensical bull**** that people try to sell around here that there are all theres irresponsible people running around humping everything that moves and having abortions like cazy and that is just not true. its nothing but hyperbole.

sorry you dont get to come in here and try to make stuff up about what you would like the OP to be about LMAO

and your murder comparison is what is absolutely ridiculous because its not a parallel on any level, who said my post was an argument to keep it legal? thats right NOBODY stop making stuff up. I know you are a dishonest poster but could you at least try to stay on topic. Reread the OP and let me know if you want to participate in an on topic honest rational discussion.

also if you disagree that you example is meaningless i challenge you to show the parallel LOL
 

again none of this has anything to do with the OP just more nonsensical hyperbole

right in the OP I said what the facts represent and what they destroy, they destroy the nonsense that people are saying about the huge number of careless and irresponsible people they calim to be running running around having all this sex and getting abortions.

its simply not true

thats what the OP proves, if you would like to make stuff up feel free to continue to do so but the OP stands :shrug:
 

It does plenty to address the OP with equally flawed parallel statistics. There is a fair amount wrong with your statistic’s attempt to “destroy” the argument you want it to, but the big one is that it lumps in the “responsible” with the “irresponsible”. So even if “irresponsible” sex was the cause of 100% of all abortions and even led to abortion 100% of the time, your statistic could still show a low percentage by simply adding volume of “responsible” sex that would be included in your statistic.

At this point, I would imagine your only recourse would be to claim that in my scenario above, the number for the “irresponsible” must then not be “huge” (as you claim the original argument claims) to pale in comparison to the “responsible”. But even that is all about context. If someone says their city has a huge amount of crime, it would make no sense to say that it is actually a very small amount of crime because it pales in comparison to all the legal actions people in the city are taking all the time.
 

you are allowed to think what ever you want but youd be 100% wrong if you think the OP doesnt stand.

the argument that the OP destroys is the empty rhetoric and hyperbole that droves of people are having reckless and careless and irresponsible sex in large amounts and having abortions.

that is simply not true and the OP proves that fact. :shrug:

and your example also drastically fails because its not a parallel to mine at all.

for your example to be a parallel that statement wouldnt be about crime but CRIMINALS and then yes I could EASILY point out to someone claiming that there are tons of people everywhere recklessly committing crimes that no its actually a low percentage of people that are criminals.

Sorry but the OP stands 100% and does in fact prove what I set out to prove wrong.

bottom line what the stat proves, is that we as a society actually are NOT that reckless and careless and irresponsible when it comes to lots of sex leading to abortions :shrug:

no matter how much you try to spin it different ways abortions happen very little to our sex and that was my point.

now you could try to redefine reckless and careless and irresponsible to cover sex that just luckily didnt end up in an abortion but that would be totally subjective.

Sorry you misunderstood, if you disagree let me know when you have something that proves that there are lots of people having reckless and careless and irresponsible to sex in large amounts that leads to abortion because like I already said thats simply not true
 

First of all, I’m not out to prove “that there are lots of people having reckless and careless and irresponsible to sex in large amounts that leads to abortion”. I am simply showing that your statistic does nothing to disprove it, as you claim.

You do nothing to address the fact that your statistic can still be low even if “irresponsible” sex caused and lead to abortion 100% of the time. So I take it you concede that point. And all you do for my example of context for “huge” is shift it to a different example. It still shows that huge is all relative to understanding the context.

But perhaps the most telling thing that shows the misunderstanding is when you say I “could try to redefine reckless and careless and irresponsible to cover sex that just luckily didnt end up in an abortion”. Are you currently defining irresponsible sex as sex that ends up in an abortion? If not, what did you mean by this? If so, I don’t think there’s a single person that defines it that way. I mean you don’t even get pregnant 100% of the time even with optimal conditions for pregnancy, let alone always choose abortion. So of course there is irresponsible sex that “luckily” doesn’t end in abortion. I’m hoping I misunderstood something here. Although this would explain a lot.
 
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