Abortion is a good thing

[Gordy327]

and whose fault is it that they have no rights? = ours

Why is it ours? That's like saying its our fault rocks don't have rights. The unborn were never considered to have rights as they are not legal persons.

 

[Gordy327]

It is human by all known science

Immaterial. It's no more "human" than the skin cells I scratch off my @ss are. It's not a legal person by law, which is where the purview of rights is.

 

[Lursa]

???? You can't name one thing wrong with a "change" made. You cannot stand the fact that you were busted in a debate......

Cry moar. I called it BS and falsehoods. And it is. It's religiously-based self-righteous opinion.

It's sad that you are clinging desperate to an imagined 'win' on the Internet. Again, it just proves that you realize all your arguments have failed, lol.

.your judgment/credibility is in question now.

Yours has been from the start and is no different now. I post facts and legal arguments. You post your feelings.

Everyone knows the unborn is human. But science is not an authority on ethics or law and recognizes no right to life for any species. Including humans. It doesnt "value" humans above other species, doesnt consider humans 'more important.' Science is obective.

RIghts, laws, value, etc are all man-made concepts and subjective.

 

[tshade]

Immaterial. It's no more "human" than the skin cells I scratch off my @ss are. It's not a legal person by law, which is where the purview of rights is.

human at an early stage of growth------------------1 month, 9 months, 10 years old, 99 years old, whatever.....

 

[tshade]

Cry moar. I called it BS and falsehoods. And it is.

It's sad that you are clinging desperate to an imagined 'win' on the Internet. Again, it just proves that you realize all your arguments have failed, lol.



Yours has been from the start and is no different now. I post facts and legal arguments. You post your feelings.

Everyone knows the unborn is human. But science is not an authority on ethics or law and recognizes no right to life for any species. Including humans. It doesnt "value" humans above other species, doesnt consider humans 'more important.' Science is obective.

RIghts, laws, value, etc are all man-made concepts and subjective.

lol----ok

 

[Lursa]

lol----ok

 

[Bodi]

You offered opinions, I've offered facts. You say abortion is bad, then make an objective argument as to why.

Good and Bad are subjective.

 

[Gordy327]

human at an early stage of growth------------------1 month, 9 months, 10 years old, 99 years old, whatever.....

Conception to birth, not a person & no rights.

 

[Gordy327]

Good and Bad are subjective.

Yes, but that doesn't really address the points made.

 

[Bodi]

Everyone knows no abortions are murder. The people who say it is are liars with nasty agendas.

Murder is just a term... it also means more than the legal part.

 

[Gordy327]

Murder is just a term... it also means more than the legal part.

The legal part is what matters and is applied.

 

[weaver2]

agree that is an affront to women's rights----------------------but what about the human inside her??........and it IS a human

There are so many terrible "affronts" to children, already born and growing up: children in poverty, children in foster care, homeless children, children with poor schools, children with no health care, children with addicted parents, children with no parents, children with nutrition so bad their mental development is reduced and diminished, abused children, sexually exploited children, hungry children.

The anti-abortion movement doesn't acknowledge that these children also need protection from harm. Nor do they acknowledge their need for homes, food, doctors, good teachers and schools, safe communities, stable parents, clinics for their parents in crisis, counseling and access to women's effective birth control to prevent the birth of a child the parents cannot care for and which will actually reduce their ability to care for the already born children.

How is it possible to focus entirely on an unfeeling, unthinking, unaware, 1 to 2 inch long embryo and ignore the little child already in the family and needing protection from hunger, homelessness, abusive relatives, illness, exploitation, cold weather, priests and pastors ...... and they ARE humans.

 

[tshade]

There are so many terrible "affronts" to children, already born and growing up: children in poverty, children in foster care, homeless children, children with poor schools, children with no health care, children with addicted parents, children with no parents, children with nutrition so bad their mental development is reduced and diminished, abused children, sexually exploited children, hungry children.

The anti-abortion movement doesn't acknowledge that these children also need protection from harm. Nor do they acknowledge their need for homes, food, doctors, good teachers and schools, safe communities, stable parents, clinics for their parents in crisis, counseling and access to women's effective birth control to prevent the birth of a child the parents cannot care for and which will actually reduce their ability to care for the already born children.

How is it possible to focus entirely on an unfeeling, unthinking, unaware, 1 to 2 inch long embryo and ignore the little child already in the family and needing protection from hunger, homelessness, abusive relatives, illness, exploitation, cold weather, priests and pastors ...... and they ARE humans.

Agree------those most frantic about protecting the unborn seem to care less once birth takes place. I understand. But we can work on both.

 

[DrewPaul]

There are so many terrible "affronts" to children, already born and growing up: children in poverty, children in foster care, homeless children, children with poor schools, children with no health care, children with addicted parents, children with no parents, children with nutrition so bad their mental development is reduced and diminished, abused children, sexually exploited children, hungry children.

The solution to these affronts is to kill the unborn child? How many such children (children in poverty, children in foster care ect) if given a choice would prefer to die by a painless shot?

The anti-abortion movement doesn't acknowledge that these children also need protection from harm.

That's simply not true. Do a search on help for pregnant woman, there are literally hundreds of such centers for woman and children.

How is it possible to focus entirely on an unfeeling, unthinking, unaware, 1 to 2 inch long embryo and ignore the little child already in the family and needing protection from hunger, homelessness, abusive relatives, illness, exploitation, cold weather, priests and pastors ...... and they ARE humans.

Month 3 (weeks 9 through 12)

The arms, hands, fingers, feet and toes are fully formed. At this stage, the fetus is starting to explore a bit by doing things like opening and closing its fists and mouth. Fingernails and toenails are beginning to develop and the external ears are formed. The beginnings of teeth are forming under the gums. The reproductive organs also develop, but sex is still difficult to distinguish on ultrasound.

So you agree no abortion should be performed after 12 weeks true?

 

[weaver2]

So you agree no abortion should be performed after 12 weeks true?

I didn't say that. I talked about aborting a non-sentient embryo because 88% of all abortions happen on or before the 10th week.

 

[weaver2]

Agree------those most frantic about protecting the unborn seem to care less once birth takes place. I understand. But we can work on both.

We can! We can reduce the number of abortions needed by making sure that the most effective women's contraceptives are available at cost to all women. Have you read about the success of the Colorado Family Planning Project?


If we both worked together look what we could do!!!!!!

 

[Gordy327]

The solution to these affronts is to kill the unborn child?

"Unborn children" is an oxymoron. Regardless, that is for the pregnant woman to decide and it's also no one else's business or concern.

How many such children (children in poverty, children in foster care ect) if given a choice would prefer to die by a painless shot?

Since children are not being killed and it's illegal, that question is moot.

That's simply not true. Do a search on help for pregnant woman, there are literally hundreds of such centers for woman and children

How much resources are afforded to them? For how long? Who ends up footing the bill?

So you agree no abortion should be performed after 12 weeks true?

I do not. There is no rational reason to limit abortions before viability.

 

[weaver2]

The solution to these affronts is to kill the unborn child? How many such children (children in poverty, children in foster care ect) if given a choice would prefer to die by a painless shot?

How astounding that an anti-abortion conservative should use the symbol of the duality of life, the necessity of opposites in order to create the whole of the universe. Women getting abortions are the the absolute embodiment of yin-yang.

 

[DrewPaul]

"Unborn children" is an oxymoron. Regardless, that is for the pregnant woman to decide and it's also no one else's business or concern.

I agree it's a woman's choice. I'm pro-choice and pro-life. I want abortions to be legal, safe and rare. All humans go through various stages of development. Is an infant less human than a teenager? An adult human more human than a teenager? An abortion is the termination of a human being.

How many such children (children in poverty, children in foster care ect) if given a choice would prefer to die by a painless shot? Since children are not being killed and it's illegal, that question is moot.

Its a pertinent hypothetical question since you and others are claiming there lifes are so miserable they would prefer death. The truth is you prefer death for them but you know they wouldn't.

I do not. There is no rational reason to limit abortions before viability.

They are viable outside the womb at 24 weeks. So that's the limit right?

 

[DrewPaul]

How astounding that an anti-abortion conservative should use the symbol of the duality of life, the necessity of opposites in order to create the whole of the universe. Women getting abortions are the the absolute embodiment of yin-yang.

I interpret the ying and the yang as two sides to every argument and the balance that occurs in life. Its the embodiment of one person having the legal right to terminate another human. I know the game any person who argues in favor of abortion has to rationalize its not a real life. If they conceded it was a life they'd have to be opposed to abortion.

 

[DrewPaul]

I didn't say that. I talked about aborting a non-sentient embryo because 88% of all abortions happen on or before the 10th week.

Then you should be okay with restricting abortions to 24 weeks when the fetus can survive outside of the womb.

 

[BirdinHand]

Then you should be okay with restricting abortions to 24 weeks when the fetus can survive outside of the womb.

You know why I’m not a fan of that?

Because the VAST majority of abortions past 24 weeks are done either for Mom’s health or because of a horrific fetal diagnosis.

And the government doesn’t need to be getting in the middle of those moments and making it worse.

 

[Lursa]

I agree it's a woman's choice. I'm pro-choice and pro-life. I want abortions to be legal, safe and rare. All humans go through various stages of development. Is an infant less human than a teenager? An adult human more human than a teenager? An abortion is the termination of a human being.


Its a pertinent hypothetical question since you and others are claiming there lifes are so miserable they would prefer death. The truth is you prefer death for them but you know they wouldn't.


They are viable outside the womb at 24 weeks. So that's the limit right?

What authority says that all humans have a right to life? The Constitution recognizes rights for born people (see the 14th A. Also, no federal laws or court decisions recognize rights for the unborn either).

Legal protections are "legal" considerations...so if you are concerned about imposing your views on abortion on other people...then the mechanism to do so is thru the legal system.

The scientific classification of the unborn as humans is objective science and science is not an authority regarding rights or legal status. It recognizes no right to life for any species.

My personal view is that while I value the unborn, I value all born people more.

 

[tshade]

We can! We can reduce the number of abortions needed by making sure that the most effective women's contraceptives are available at cost to all women. Have you read about the success of the Colorado Family Planning Project?


If we both worked together look what we could do!!!!!!

we can also aid mothers (teen & single moms in particular) and families so that they are more confident in having the baby in the first place, etc.......

 

[Citizen]

simply replace the word "abortion" with "murder" and see how the argument flows smoothly

Well if you think abortion is murder, then you and yours should just not have one.