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Abortion and Drugs

blogger31

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For those of you who hold the view that it is not your place to tell a woman what to do with her own body, I have a question.

Are you also in favor of legalizing any and all drugs for the simple fact that it should not be our place to tell a junkie what they can or cannot do with their body? Do you hold that same view that if you don't like drugs don't do them, but it is not our place what to tell others they can ingest into their body?
 

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blogger31 said:
For those of you who hold the view that it is not your place to tell a woman what to do with her own body, I have a question.

Are you also in favor of legalizing any and all drugs for the simple fact that it should not be our place to tell a junkie what they can or cannot do with their body? Do you hold that same view that if you don't like drugs don't do them, but it is not our place what to tell others they can ingest into their body?

If we start telling people what they can and can't do with their own bodies, how do we know when to draw the line? Motorcycles, rock climbing, swimming without a buddy? Life is dangerous, none of us are getting out of it alive. Society must draw the line at the point where the individual may do as much damage to themselves as they wish, so long as society does not have to bear any additional burden (. paying your disability when your stupid ass falls off the mountain). This carries over to drugs and abortion. Society has through our government chosen to make drugs illegal, not because they do damage to the individual, but because of the copious side effects. As an individual, I have no objection to legalizing marijuana. I do not believe it is substantially more damaging to society than cigarettes or alcohol. Those other drugs you mentioned cause much more disruption and I agree that they need to be banned, or legalized with sufficient restrictions to minimize social disruption.

The argument is whether a foetus (I looked it up Naughty Nurse :smile: ) really is a person, and by definition has rights. Some argue yes, others no. I'm still on the fence on that one. Being a male and at an age the further fatherhood is looking pretty dim, I abstain this decision.
 

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blogger31 said:
For those of you who hold the view that it is not your place to tell a woman what to do with her own body, I have a question.

Are you also in favor of legalizing any and all drugs for the simple fact that it should not be our place to tell a junkie what they can or cannot do with their body? Do you hold that same view that if you don't like drugs don't do them, but it is not our place what to tell others they can ingest into their body?
I am in favor of legalizing any drug. The government does not have any right to tell any person what to do with their own body. Liberty is what makes this country great.
 

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alex said:
I am in favor of legalizing any drug. The government does not have any right to tell any person what to do with their own body. Liberty is what makes this country great.
Well that tells me alot about you then, you have no sight for what it can bring. You don't care about side effects on society by the harm one can do to their body. Do you think that it will get better when legalized? No it can only get worse, the effects of drugs on people will remain the same, and the greed from the dealers will get even stronger. People will still have to cheat, lie, steal, and hurt others to get money to get their fix. It is now of no amazment to me that you could support the killing of an innocent child, you don't even care about those that are living.
 

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blogger31 said:
Well that tells me alot about you then, you have no sight for what it can bring. You don't care about side effects on society by the harm one can do to their body. Do you think that it will get better when legalized? No it can only get worse, the effects of drugs on people will remain the same, and the greed from the dealers will get even stronger. People will still have to cheat, lie, steal, and hurt others to get money to get their fix. It is now of no amazment to me that you could support the killing of an innocent child, you don't even care about those that are living.

Yes the dealers can be very greedy, like Glaxo, Bear and Pfizer. My previous note states I don't agree with broad legalization, so don't castigate me.
 

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puck said:
Yes the dealers can be very greedy, like Glaxo, Bear and Pfizer. My previous note states I don't agree with broad legalization, so don't castigate me.
No that was not directed at you, and you are right those major Rx companies are greedy as well.
 

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blogger31 said:
Well that tells me alot about you then, you have no sight for what it can bring. You don't care about side effects on society by the harm one can do to their body. Do you think that it will get better when legalized? No it can only get worse, the effects of drugs on people will remain the same, and the greed from the dealers will get even stronger. People will still have to cheat, lie, steal, and hurt others to get money to get their fix. It is now of no amazment to me that you could support the killing of an innocent child, you don't even care about those that are living.
You obviously have not done the research. You base your posts on nothing but what you think to be the truth instead of knowing the facts. Once again, I will disprove you.

Check this out:
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/crime/#table1

The table that it references shows very low percentages of people who use drugs committing crimes. 1.6% of drug users committed larceny or theft, that is a low percentage. There are 98.4% of drugs users who do not commit larceny or theft. Should they be threatened with penalties? That holds true for all the crimes listed on the table.

Legalizing drugs will not incease crime. The issue here is that people like you have been conditioned to believe drugs are bad. You were told they were and you do not have the mental capacity to think for your self. A majority of people who use drugs are responsible users. That is the plain simple fact.
 

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alex said:
You obviously have not done the research. You base your posts on nothing but what you think to be the truth instead of knowing the facts. Once again, I will disprove you.

Check this out:
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/crime/#table1

The table that it references shows very low percentages of people who use drugs committing crimes. 1.6% of drug users committed larceny or theft, that is a low percentage. There are 98.4% of drugs users who do not commit larceny or theft. Should they be threatened with penalties? That holds true for all the crimes listed on the table.

Legalizing drugs will not incease crime. The issue here is that people like you have been conditioned to believe drugs are bad. You were told they were and you do not have the mental capacity to think for your self. A majority of people who use drugs are responsible users. That is the plain simple fact.
Are you going to just narrow this down to larceny and theft? I mean I know you have a narrow mind but I thought it might be a little more open then this. What about children of drug users? How many of them get hurt? How many of them are neglected, abused emotionally, physically, and mentally because of drug abuse?

I don't need to be conditioned for anything, I have seen this stuff first hand, I have seen what drugs do to people first hand. I have seen the children, and others who suffer first hand. It is about experience dear, not conditioning. The problem is people like you who don't have a mental capacity to comprehend another person's plight. The problem is people like you who lack empathy for others situations, because in your greed you want for yourself alone. You look at a number of 1.6% and say to yourself "That's not bad." You justify legal drugs by seeing this number, and in your feeble mental capacity don't understand that while this number could, not likely, but could stay the same, the increase in actual numbers would rise. The increase in real people being hurt for real would increase all the while you are happy and content because of your 1.6%.

You find your little polls with percentage numbers and feel content that it is low enough for you to feel that you and others should be allowed to use drugs whenever, you spout some bullcrap about most drug users being responsible, yet rehab clinics are spread all across this country. You haven't disproved anything, maybe in your mental capacity you have disproved something, but in reality you have only proven one thing, and that is your inability to think in a broad spectrum, your inability to comprehend a broader picture then your own selfish thinking. Disprove that!!
 

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I suffered as the child of a chronic alcoholic. Why the hell is alcohol and its many problems any better than an addiction to meth or the like?

Blogger31, I suggest you actually take a good look at the world before you decide your sheltered opinions are of any value. What's more, I find it absoloutely disgusting that you should whinge about children no one wants, yet be a warhawk with no care for the soldiers or civilians hurt and killed in Iraq. Does the word hypocrite mean anything to you?
 

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vergiss said:
I suffered as the child of a chronic alcoholic. Why the hell is alcohol and its many problems any better than an addiction to meth or the like?

Blogger31, I suggest you actually take a good look at the world before you decide your sheltered opinions are of any value. What's more, I find it absoloutely disgusting that you should whinge about children no one wants, yet be a warhawk with no care for the soldiers or civilians hurt and killed in Iraq. Does the word hypocrite mean anything to you?
What are you talking about? Does the word assumption mean anything to you genius? Where did I say I was a warhawk? Where did I say I had no care for soldiers or civilians being killed in Iraq? How can you even assume I am for the war, for all you know I could be against it. Is it my signature tag? Sorry, but no matter how much I am ever against a war I will never be against the soldiers who are out there risking their lives for others freedom. As a soldier who wore a uniform and served his country, I know more about war and what happens to those who fight and are fought amongst then you obviously know about me.

I think it is disgusting that you would prefer to kill children rather then seek an actual solution. I think it is disgusting that you would tell someone it is too bad their mother didn't believe in abortion. It shows you are nothing more then an angry person, who can only post based on assumptions of others. You call me sheltered yet you know nothing about me.

Show me where I said alcohol was fine? Show me where I said alcohol was a good thing? OH, what's that.....you say I didn't say it...imagine that. You suffered then you should be agreeing that legalizing drugs will only increase this issue that you suffered from.

I suggest you stop assuming things about people. I have seen what illegal drugs do to people, what it does to children, what it does to families, and innocent others first hand. Get your head out of your rump and figure out who your talking to first.

Prove to me by my own words that I think alcohol is fine, also prove that I am a warhawk who does not care about soldiers and civilians, otherwise go find another thread and shut your hole.
 

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And likewise, I never said that legalising drugs was a good idea, did I? But by implication, you act as if alcohol and cigarettes are somehow lees bad, just because they're legal. How can you decide which addiction is better than the other?

You cannot care about the lives of soldiers if you want them to go to war in Iraq. You cannot care about the Iraqi civilians if you think the US should be bombing them to smithereens.

What solution is there to abortion? Increased access to birth control? Yeah, like the Bible belt conservatives will be happy about that. Besides, accidents happen, condoms break, the Pill doesn't work, etc. If you want a solution, get science to figure out a way of raising an embryo outside of the womb (and guarentee them loving adoptive parents - we don't want a situation that existed prior to abortion, with thousands of abandoned children without families to raise them) or something, so women can live their lives free of children forced upon them by the State.

I haven't just seen what drugs (legal or not) do to people. I've lived it.
 

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vergiss said:
And likewise, I never said that legalising drugs was a good idea, did I? But by implication, you act as if alcohol and cigarettes are somehow lees bad, just because they're legal. How can you decide which addiction is better than the other?

You cannot care about the lives of soldiers if you want them to go to war in Iraq. You cannot care about the Iraqi civilians if you think the US should be bombing them to smithereens.

What solution is there to abortion? Increased access to birth control? Yeah, like the Bible belt conservatives will be happy about that. Besides, accidents happen, condoms break, the Pill doesn't work, etc. If you want a solution, get science to figure out a way of raising an embryo outside of the womb (and guarentee them loving adoptive parents - we don't want a situation that existed prior to abortion, with thousands of abandoned children without families to raise them) or something, so women can live their lives free of children forced upon them by the State.

I haven't just seen what drugs (legal or not) do to people. I've lived it.
Where is the implication? Where did I imply that alcohol or anything else was better? Why can't you just admit you jumped the gun and made an assumption. I never implied such a thing. My discussion was about legalization of drugs, alcohol is currently legal whether I agree or not, I cannot discuss the legalization of something that is legal. So just because it didn't come up is not an implication.

So show me where I said I want them to go to war? Show me where I brought up war in the first place? Just because you have some ultra-hippy view that any person who is for a war does not care about soldiers, doesn't mean that applies to everyone. But you have still failed to even show that I am for the war, for all you know I am against it, and have been from the start. Again nothing but assumptions from you, now that you have been caught in a bind, you try to BS your way out. Well it is not going to work, either admit you made a wrong assumption or else put up where I said such a thing.

I can tell you killing them is not a solution, matter of fact abortion hasn't solved all the social issues PC claimed it would in the first place. But instead of working to a solution the lazy ass PC would rather just kill the children and be done with it.

Again more of a reason you should be agreeing with me, instead of making false assumptions because you have foot in mouth syndrome:naughty
 

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Read your own posts, then. By having a hissy fit about the problems caused by illicit drugs, you trivialise the seriousness of problems caused by alcohol and cigarettes. Why should some be legal and others not, then?

It's not ultra-hippy, it's quite logical. God forbid you use logic. If you want men and women to fight in an unjustified war such at the conflict in Iraq, then you don't care for the 1800 who have been killed so far, the untold thousands who've been severely wounded, and the many more who are in harm's way. How can you say you care if you're so willing for their lives to be risked?

Also, you might want to be wary about who's "in a bind". The first person to try and claim that they've won an argument is invariably the one who feels threatened.

What solution do you have, then?
 

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vergiss said:
Read your own posts, then. By having a hissy fit about the problems caused by illicit drugs, you trivialise the seriousness of problems caused by alcohol and cigarettes. Why should some be legal and others not, then?

It's not ultra-hippy, it's quite logical. God forbid you use logic. If you want men and women to fight in an unjustified war such at the conflict in Iraq, then you don't care for the 1800 who have been killed so far, the untold thousands who've been severely wounded, and the many more who are in harm's way. How can you say you care if you're so willing for their lives to be risked?

Also, you might want to be wary about who's "in a bind". The first person to try and claim that they've won an argument is invariably the one who feels threatened.

What solution do you have, then?
Just because you are really slow, I will give this to you one more time. This topic is about illegal drugs being legalized using the same argument that is used for abortion. Alcohol and cigs are already legal, we cannot discuss something becoming legal by the same argument as abortion when it is already legal. If you want to discuss alcohol and cigs start your own thread.

Again, you have failed to prove that I am for the war. I have asked you to prove that twice now, and each time you have ignored that request. That is quite telling of ones character in a debate. So I ask you again to prove that I support the war. I have only shown that I support the troops, by your standard that means I am against the war. So once again, your proof please?

Also I have not tried to claim anything, we are not on a school yard playground here, I am simply saying "put up or shut up." So are you ready to put up your evidence that I support the war?
 

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*sigh*

And because you're slow, or refuse to read what I've written, I shall repeat: "Read your own posts, then. By having a hissy fit about the problems caused by illicit drugs, you trivialise the seriousness of problems caused by alcohol and cigarettes."

How about you prove that you're not? Good luck.
 

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vergiss said:
*sigh*

And because you're slow, or refuse to read what I've written, I shall repeat: "Read your own posts, then. By having a hissy fit about the problems caused by illicit drugs, you trivialise the seriousness of problems caused by alcohol and cigarettes."

How about you prove that you're not? Good luck.
:rofl :rofl
You almost had a good format to your answer, but plain and simple you did it wrong again. If you want to challenge me on not answering a question or proving something to you. You should always answer the challenge presented to you. I will show you how:

You want me to prove to you that I am not trivializing alcohol, and cigarettes. First of all I will tell you I will trivialize cigs on this forum because I have never heard of a child being beaten after their father was out all night smoking cigarettes, or someone died in a car crash because the smoked too much tobacco, and I never heard of an OD of tobacco. Can't recall the last time someone pissed away their life savings because they had to have that tobacco fix. Cigarettes are addictive, but let's be real it does not compare to alcohol or illegal drugs. As far as alcohol goes let's read what I posted to start this thread:

Are you also in favor of legalizing any and all drugs for the simple fact that it should not be our place to tell a junkie what they can or cannot do with their body? Do you hold that same view that if you don't like drugs don't do them, but it is not our place what to tell others they can ingest into their body?
Please take notice of the "any and all drugs" reference. Alcohol is considered a drug, so you could say it is included. Now look at the word in front of that which is "legalizing". At the very start of this post I wanted to discuss the legalization of harmful drugs. Alcohol is currently legal, like it or not, so as I said before we cannot discuss the legalization of something that is legal.

So now that I have taken care of that let's move on to your inability to answer challenges posed to you. You are claiming I am a warhawk, who loves the war and has no disregard for soldiers or civilians. I now challenge you to put up your evidence for this. Show me where I made such statements that you claim. Let's see if you can do what you demand of others.
 
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Erm. No. The "prove that you're not" was regarding the war, not the cigarettes and alcohol.

Besides, wouldn't you consider a slow and agonising death from lung cancer as being a tobacco overdose, of sorts? Although I'll agree, they're probably not as serious in the short-term as alcohol and illicit drugs.
 

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vergiss said:
Erm. No. The "prove that you're not" was regarding the war, not the cigarettes and alcohol.

Besides, wouldn't you consider a slow and agonising death from lung cancer as being a tobacco overdose, of sorts? Although I'll agree, they're probably not as serious in the short-term as alcohol and illicit drugs.
That is your answer? You want me to prove I am against the war? Why should I have to, you have claimed me to be in favor of it, so I want to see where you get that notion. Something tells me you just aren't big enough to admit you jumped to conclusions about my beliefs. That is why you keep trying to come up with anything to not answer. If you admit you were wrong about me and jumped to conclusions I will be more then happy to tell you what I think of the war, but first I want to see you put up, and show me your justification for your posts about me being for the war. So stop stalling and give an answer.
 

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I didn't jump to any conclusions, until it's proved one way or the other. If I refuse to prove it, you'll have to do so, before you can say I jumped to conclusions.

And if I have, I'll admit it. At least I haven't done a CattyCarissa in deciding someone has no maternal instinct.
 

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vergiss said:
I didn't jump to any conclusions, until it's proved one way or the other. If I refuse to prove it, you'll have to do so, before you can say I jumped to conclusions.

And if I have, I'll admit it. At least I haven't done a CattyCarissa in deciding someone has no maternal instinct.
OK, you asked for it:
Blogger31, I suggest you actually take a good look at the world before you decide your sheltered opinions are of any value. What's more, I find it absoloutely disgusting that you should whinge about children no one wants, yet be a warhawk with no care for the soldiers or civilians hurt and killed in Iraq. Does the word hypocrite mean anything to you?
Clearly you are addressing me, then you state that you find it "disgusting" that I "whinge" about abortion but then be a "warhawk with no care for the soldiers or civilians hurt"

Now I tell you to show where you get such a claim that I am a warhawk that does not care about soldiers or civilians. You clearly claimed that accusation about me, now back it up.
 

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Okay. You seem to be missing the fact that I don't care if you are or are not, and to be honest I can't be stuffed arguing such a silly point. However, I am ready to apologise for my haste if proven wrong. If it's such a big deal to you, you prove me right or wrong.
 

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vergiss said:
I didn't jump to any conclusions, until it's proved one way or the other. If I refuse to prove it, you'll have to do so, before you can say I jumped to conclusions.

And if I have, I'll admit it. At least I haven't done a CattyCarissa in deciding someone has no maternal instinct.

:3oops: Aw! I think Vergiss loves me thats why she is continously mentioning me; she just cant get me off her mind.
 

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Well I am not the only one that disagrees with Vergiss' comments (Blogger, Busta, Indiconservative,..). But she works my name into alot of conversations all over the message boards. And I think it is absolutely hilarious.
 

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vergiss said:
Okay. You seem to be missing the fact that I don't care if you are or are not, and to be honest I can't be stuffed arguing such a silly point. However, I am ready to apologise for my haste if proven wrong. If it's such a big deal to you, you prove me right or wrong.
Like I said you asked for it. Nice how you come out of the gate swinging with all you got and now you are reduced to calling it a silly point. If it is so silly you would have never brought it up. Word to the wise if you are going to call someone a hypocrite make sure you have all the facts about their beliefs first.
 

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galenrox said:
In short, yes. I think that we first need to have an honest discussion about the effects of these drugs, with children and adults, since I've found that most of the adults who oppose the legalization of drugs don't know **** about drugs, and then legalize them all. Why is it my business what some dude does in his house?
So in the legalization of drugs are you saying we won't have any issues with children being hurt by drug abusing parents. It happens now, so with legalization is that going to magically disappear. It didn't with alcohol, it got worse when it was legalized again. Many of those drugs are highly addictive and lead only to a road of self-destruction. Is the government and society not responsible at all to in some cases protect people from themselves?
 
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