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(ABC News) Trump says ceasefire negotiations between just Russia and Ukraine to start 'immediately'

Putin is grinding down Ukr . Dont believe all these reports of only civilian targets being hit by Russian missiles and drones.
They are hitting Ukr industry and electricity as well
Ukr can hit Moscow with drones, but not ballistic missiles. Ukr can hit Russian munitions dumps/installations
Russia has an advantage in the air war, and on the ground and in the grotesque "war of attrition"

Vance said that it, “takes two to tango. I know the president’s willing to do that, but if Russia is not willing to do that, then we’re eventually just going to say, this is not our war.
“We’re going to try to end it, but if we can’t end it, we’re eventually going to say: ‘You know what? That was worth a try, but we’re not doing any more.’”
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www.theguardian.com

Trump and Putin hold phone call but Kremlin refuses Ukraine ceasefire

Trump describes call as ‘excellent,’ despite Putin’s lack of support for ceasefire that US said was primary objective
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
In an apparent show of confidence and nonchalance, Putin took the call with Trump on Monday while touring a music school in Sochi.

His bravado is fueled by Russia’s slow but steady battlefield gains, Europe’s disjointed response, and a domestic economy increasingly adapted for a prolonged war.
 
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anatta said:
Putin is grinding down Ukr . Dont believe all these reports of only civilian targets being hit by Russian missiles and drones.
They are hitting Ukr industry and electricity as well
Ukr can hit Moscow with drones, but not ballistic missiles. Ukr can hit Russian munitions dumps/installations
Russia has an advantage in the air war, and on the ground and in the grotesque "war of attrition"
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Why shouldn't we believe them?
 
The good news for the USA is we are only minimally invested in the war now. No more Ukr money pit. No more paying for their future needs.
Europe is going to handle Europes war..goodbye and good luck
 
lynnwinslow said:
Why shouldn't we believe them?
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obviously Russia can target. what do you think they find more valuable targets? apt buildings or Ukr industry?
virtually every report out of Ukr is always "civilian deaths" with absolutely no mention of strategic targets
 
anatta said:
obviously Russia can target. what do you think they find more valuable targets? apt buildings of Ukr industry?
virtually every report out of Ukr is always "civilian deaths" with absolutely no mention of strategic targets
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So, you're just speculating. Got it.
 
stealthycat said:
one more reason to hate Trump - right everyone ?

how dare he try to broker a peace ... we'd be better off with war and funding the war, giving hundreds of billions to Ukraine and kill, kill, and more killing ............ right ?
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I don't think anyone takes his efforts seriously. They're so impotent.
 
Chomsky said:
Putin may have told Trump to butt-out. This may not have been Trump's decision. In fact, knowing Trump, I'm sure it was Putin's decision.
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Diplomacy dont work like that. Putin shines Trump on for sure, always holding out a promise for advances.
If Putin told Trump to "but out"- Trump WOULD hit him with more sanctions
 
anatta said:
Putin is grinding down Ukr . Dont believe all these reports of only civilian targets being hit by Russian missiles and drones.
They are hitting Ukr industry and electricity as well
Ukr can hit Moscow with drones, but not ballistic missiles. Ukr can hit Russian munitions dumps/installations
Russia has an advantage in the air war, and on the ground and in the grotesque "war of attrition"



www.theguardian.com

Trump and Putin hold phone call but Kremlin refuses Ukraine ceasefire

Trump describes call as ‘excellent,’ despite Putin’s lack of support for ceasefire that US said was primary objective
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
In an apparent show of confidence and nonchalance, Putin took the call with Trump on Monday while touring a music school in Sochi.

His bravado is fueled by Russia’s slow but steady battlefield gains, Europe’s disjointed response, and a domestic economy increasingly adapted for a prolonged war.
Click to expand...

One of the reasons people don't take Trump's impotent cries for peace seriously.
 
anatta said:
Diplomacy dont work like that. Putin shines Trump on for sure, always holding out a promise for advances.
If Putin told Trump to "but out"- Trump WOULD hit him with more sanctions
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Why would he tell Trump to butt out? Trump's involvement is so ineffective.
 
j brown's body said:
One of the reasons people don't take Trump's impotent cries for peace seriously.
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Like I said Z doesn't want to give up any territiory despite the fact he can't hold all of pre-war Ukraine and Crimea is gone
Putin is content to grind it out. Ukraine loses a war of attrition..You can't blame Trump for events on the ground. It was worth a chance
 
stealthycat said:
one more reason to hate Trump - right everyone ?

how dare he try to broker a peace ... we'd be better off with war and funding the war, giving hundreds of billions to Ukraine and kill, kill, and more killing ............ right ?
Click to expand...
I don't hate Trump for wanting the war to end.

I hate him because he's Putin's bitch.
 
anatta said:
Like I said Z doesn't want to give up any territiory despite the fact he can't hold all of pre-war Ukraine and Crimea is gone
Putin is content to grind it out. Ukraine loses a war of attrition..You can't blame Trump for events on the ground. It was worth a chance
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Ukraine is not losing the war of attrition, because the attrition is landing on the Russians disproportionally, for 3 solid reasons.
 
anatta said:
Like I said Z doesn't want to give up any territiory despite the fact he can't hold all of pre-war Ukraine and Crimea is gone
Putin is content to grind it out. Ukraine loses a war of attrition..You can't blame Trump for events on the ground. It was worth a chance
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You might think Ukraine giving up land will lead to peace, but its the opposite. Putin has made it clear he wants all of Ukraine and appeasing the aggrssor will only encourage them.
 
j brown's body said:
You might like the idea of Ukraine giving up land because it would seem to be a path to peace, but its the opposite Putin has made it clear he wants all of Ukraine and appeasing the aggrssor will encourage them.
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Putin wants it all. Z doesn't want to give up ANY..as long as that is the mindset the war goes on
 
anatta said:
oh right! excuse me! Putin CONSTANTLY attacks apt buildings, but not military targets? Somehow it's magically scrubbed by Kyiv press
get real
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You are making specific statements about the war without backing them up.

For example, do you care to deny that Russia targeted a marked evacuation bus heading West from Sumy just two days ago?

Would that Lancet drone have been better used hitting Ukrainian armor?
 
anatta said:
Putin wants it all. Z doesn't want to give up ANY..as long as that is the mindset the war goes on
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Yeah, that's how it worked in World War II, the last mechanized land war of any real scope.

You want Zelensky to give in to Putin. Neither Zelensky nor his people seem inclined to hand over their country to Russian murderers and bandits.
 
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