'A Year Ago I Was a Hero. Now I'm Treated Like Scum.'

[Ouroboros]

"Unspecified". So nothing then. Good to know. Oh, and by the way, do you consider TV ads clearly telling folk that their drug is the one they should take, also illegal? Encouraging people to get vaccinated is likewise not illegal, it isn't coercion because you have the right to refuse. No rights, freedoms or anything else have been violated, abused or transgressed.

A company that fires you for unvaccinated status is no better than one that fires you for your religion. Not surprised you can’t get that.

 

[Quag]

A company that fires you for unvaccinated status is no better than one that fires you for your religion. Not surprised you can’t get that.

Religious beliefs do not increase the chances of causing harm or death to others, unlike refusing to get vaccinated.

 

[Ouroboros]

Religious beliefs do not increase the chances of causing harm or death to others, unlike refusing to get vaccinated.

You ought to check out some atheist sites to see some rhetoric about the harm caused by religion.

If vaccination prevented all transmissibility, I might concede your overall point. But reduced transmissibility is not a good enough reason to abrogate American rights.

 

[code1211]

I firmly believe that some people are so far gone like a Scientologist convinced that Thetans exist, that they DO believe the BS they are spouting every night. The REAL idiots like Stelter, Joy Reid, Mika, and scores of others are so effing dumb they believe their own stupidity. People like Cuomo, Cillizza, and quite a few others KNOW what they are spouting is not true and do i=t to play to the crowd. THOSE are the more dangerous and evil ones in society.

I watched a commentator delivering an expose on propaganda in the media. This was some time back, maybe 10 or 15 years, but it was interesting.

He offered that he thought as a young man that the folks on air in countries with state controlled media were forced to say what they said. He included a picture of a "newscaster" reading copy, sweating, with a gun to his head.

Then he pivoted to our own media and talked about people "newscasting" who were obviously just possessed of the wrong headed ideas they espoused.

Joy Reid, from the few snippets I've seen seems like a hate filled, agenda driven ideologue. Mika? Seems entirely hate filled and brain dead. They seem completely devoted to their party's line.

It is not difficult at all to understand how the state controlled medias around the world find folks to deliver their message.

It's difficult to understand how they avoid asking questions in the face of all of their ideas showing such disastrous results.

 

[BlueTex]

You ought to check out some atheist sites to see some rhetoric about the harm caused by religion.

If vaccination prevented all transmissibility, I might concede your overall point. But reduced transmissibility is not a good enough reason to abrogate American rights.

There is NO right to ignore the job requirements of an employer... That would be ENTITLEMENT...

 

[Quag]

You ought to check out some atheist sites to see some rhetoric about the harm caused by religion.

Yeah not really even close

If vaccination prevented all transmissibility, I might concede your overall point. But reduced transmissibility is not a good enough reason to abrogate American rights.

Increasing the risk to others (in a hospital the most vulnerable) is affecting their rights. Same reason you cant smoke in a hospital.

 

[code1211]

And why do you imagine that is?

I mean, aside from the fact that the polio vaccine was actually used by almost the entire population.

Because it actually works. Not even on "break through infection".

Why do YOU suppose that is?

 

[snakestretcher]

A company that fires you for unvaccinated status is no better than one that fires you for your religion. Not surprised you can’t get that.

Breach company policy which your contract advises you of when you're employed, and you can whine while waiting for your unemployment check. Follow their rules or lose your job. Simple enough even for a conservative to understand.

 

[Luce]

Because it actually works. Not even on "break through infection".

Why do YOU suppose that is?

It works because enough people were vaccinated.

If you walk a man with measles, for example, through a room with 100 vaccinate people, 3 of them will get sick, as the MMR vaccine is 97% effective. The polio vaccine is 99% effective, which means in the same scenario you will also be at risk for breakthrough cases.

How does the concept of herd immunity not register by now? I don't mean that Boris Johnson bullshit about just letting people get sick, I mean the actual meaning of the word. This is the 21st century. What possible excuse do you have?

 

[snakestretcher]

You ought to check out some atheist sites to see some rhetoric about the harm caused by religion.

If vaccination prevented all transmissibility, I might concede your overall point. But reduced transmissibility is not a good enough reason to abrogate American rights.

Oh, you mean like the thousands of boys and girls serially abused by Catholic clergy over decades, while the Pope ignored the abuse as the priests were quietly shifted to another parish? Just "some rhetoric", and no harm done, right?
Please explain what these imaginary rights are that you believe are being abrogated by being encouraged, not ordered, to wear a mask.

 

[code1211]

This is just more of the same effort to demonize COVID vaccines. The most at risk who are unvaccinated are 11 times more likely to die. If that was any drug, it would be a blockbuster, revolutionary, incredible, on the cover of Time Magazine, and you don't think it does enough.....

And I really don't know why you have a problem with using the correct term - "vaccines." Even if it's not a "vaccine" but __________??? why could it possibly matter? Over decades that I've been alive, no one ever objected, that I've seen, to calling the annual flu shot a "vaccine" and it's often FAR less effective than the COVID vaccine, so why now? Why did the term suddenly start to matter? Can you define "vaccine" in a way that the Moderna etc. shots do not qualify but flu shots and other vaccines with varying effectiveness do qualify?


I don't care. Vaccines lower the risk of her getting infected, and therefore of spreading it to vulnerable patients. PPE doesn't work all the time, but you'd be foolish to be OK with her "choosing" not to wear masks because she believes they increase her health risks. Vaccines work, 24/7, and the way to minimize the risk of a provider to patients is 1) PPE, PLUS 2) vaccines. It's that simple. If it's your clinic, do you want to minimize risk that one of your employees will kill one of your patients? Of course - that's obvious. So why would an employer permit employees this "choice?"

OK, she's a free person. If she doesn't want to take the vaccine, that's fine, but I do not understand why you guys on the right wing now assert some 'right' for her to choose whatever the hell she wants to do, AND that decision carry no consequences? Where in the hell is that in conservative ideology? If she does not want to get vaccinated, good luck, god speed, but maybe a career caring for the most vulnerable, the sick, the very old, isn't in the cards. This is really very simple.

One of my arguments in support of her being reluctant to take the jab(s) is that she fears unintended and unknowable bad consequences for her unborn child. Do you dismiss any danger whatever for the unborn in vaccinated mothers? Link?

The other is that, as a 21 year old, presumably not obese and not suffering underlying conditions, she is essentially immune to the worst outcomes. Again, do you dismiss this? Link?

I observe that the vaccines are not really vaccines since they enhance resistance like inoculations. They do not immunize like vaccines. Plentiful infections and death among the "vaccinated". Do you dismiss this? Link?

"My body, my choice" used to be embraced by the leftists in America. When that idea was declared, in almost exactly 100% of the declarations where real world action reflected the sentiment, it resulted in at least one death.

As an old guy, I am a proponent of the "vaccines" since it does enhance my statistical chances. However, my resistance will NEVER match the young and healthy who are far more immune that I will ever be with or without the vaccines.

Regarding her caring for the elderly, who are very likely "vaccinated", blessings on her. It is selfless work and she has been doing it for several months AND APPARENTLY WAS NEVER INFECTED.

Here in Indiana, a population of just under 7 million, the chances of dying from Covid at age 21 is about 0.1%. Less if you are not obese, not previously ill and are female. Statistically, females are 4% less susceptible.

Your implied suggestion that roving vaccination squads drag people from their homes and forcibly vaccinate them seems to be a tad draconian to me. Will they at least get a shower bath before entering the camps?

Indiana COVID-19 Home Dashboard

www.coronavirus.in.gov

 

[screenwriter]

"Unspecified". So nothing then. Good to know. Oh, and by the way, do you consider TV ads clearly telling folk that their drug is the one they should take, also illegal? Encouraging people to get vaccinated is likewise not illegal, it isn't coercion because you have the right to refuse. No rights, freedoms or anything else have been violated, abused or transgressed.

You're down with someone telling you that you MUST take that drug advertised on TV in order to keep your job then? Mmmmmmkay.

 

[snakestretcher]

You're down with someone telling you that you MUST take that drug advertised on TV in order to keep your job then? Mmmmmmkay.

Why are you assuming something I didn't suggest or imply? Imagination running overtime? And what the hell is 'mmmmmmkay'? Is that what passes for English in America? I know you Yanks have problems with the English language, but...

 

[code1211]

I don't understand why you refuse to acknowledge that the main reason a healthcare provider, like Becca's employer, requires vaccines. It has almost NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH BECCA'S RISK OF DEATH!!!! (although see below). They require vaccines, primarily, because vaccines 1) reduce infections, and 2) therefore, reduce the risks that Becca et al. will get a COVID case, often asymptomatic, then spread it to patients/clients and KILL THOSE PATIENTS.

And the problem is for an employer, employees are shitty, terrible, awful at assessing their own risks. So you saw hospitals full this Fall with people who deliberately avoided vaccines, believed they were not at risk, and they were wrong, they were overweight, had undiagnosed or diagnosed high blood pressure - actually the biggest risk factor - or had other conditions that resulted in a serious case, and they were in ICUs running up 6 figure tabs, and way, way too often dying. About 90% of them locally were unvaccinated - 90% believed they were bullet proof with COVID. So they failed at risk evaluation, and we all paid the price.

Just on the business end, do you want to let employees do a terrible job of assessing their own risks, and then pay out $100k per case, or require a 'free' vaccine? If that financial risk was related to a $100k 18 wheeler, and they could fix the brakes for $20 or assume the small but easily quantifiable risk of a crash totaling the truck and killing the driver, and putting other drivers at higher risk of death, what do you think every employer on planet earth would do? Fix the brakes - 100% of them, at least 100% of them not total idiots, verifiable incompetents. And you'd have employers do the opposite with COVID vaccines......

The employer is open to the liabilities from legal retributions and will likely enforce reasonable measures to avoid those retributions. I have not argued against employers employing those reasonable measures.

Regarding this individual, this seemingly immune individual, a science-based approach might be to examine her to find out WHY she is immune. What is different about Nurse Becca?

A political or a police state approach might be to attack her and force her to comply with the raw political dictates of the state.

It seems to be very possible that if this nurse, working long hours, exhausted and with depleted resistance to any disease throughout 2020 avoided infection while working with the infected, she might have a natural resistance.

Some kind of a reverse Typhoid Mary.

Would it be more helpful to determine WHY she is immune and see if that can be spread around or more helpful to simply make her comply.

Just asking...

 

[PirateMk1]

Not shocking at all really, makes sense

its awesome how hard she worked and she can get credit for that choice of sacrifice and helping
just like she can get credit for choosing not to get vaccinated not sacrificing and not helping

one doesnt magically erase the others

I understand that it makes her feel a certain way but those were all her choices and she has to accept the good with the bad of those choices, cant blame the medical industry field for following medical science

hopefully, she can move on to another career where her choices wont impact her negatively

She is the medical industry and the science is in no way settled and constantly evolving.

 

[AGENT J]

She is the medical industry and the science is in no way settled and constantly evolving.

sorry, what are you trying to discuss that is actually relavant?
what do you think you posted that changes anything i said? youll have to actually say something/make a point

 

[Ethel2]

The employer is open to the liabilities from legal retributions and will likely enforce reasonable measures to avoid those retributions. I have not argued against employers employing those reasonable measures.

Regarding this individual, this seemingly immune individual, a science-based approach might be to examine her to find out WHY she is immune. What is different about Nurse Becca?

A political or a police state approach might be to attack her and force her to comply with the raw political dictates of the state.

It seems to be very possible that if this nurse, working long hours, exhausted and with depleted resistance to any disease throughout 2020 avoided infection while working with the infected, she might have a natural resistance.

Some kind of a reverse Typhoid Mary.

Would it be more helpful to determine WHY she is immune and see if that can be spread around or more helpful to simply make her comply.

Just asking...

“Seemingly immune “ isn’t good enough.
If she can prove that she is immune by getting an antibody test for covid then she should be excused from the mandated vaccine.
Otherwise she can sell used cars.

 

[Overitall]

“Seemingly immune “ isn’t good enough.
If she can prove that she is immune by getting an antibody test for covid then she should be excused from the mandated vaccine.
Otherwise she can sell used cars.

That's a reasonable alternative.

 

[screenwriter]

Why are you assuming something I didn't suggest or imply? Imagination running overtime? And what the hell is 'mmmmmmkay'? Is that what passes for English in America? I know you Yanks have problems with the English language, but...

You're the one who equated the suggestion to take the vaccine with a television ad for a drug.

 

[screenwriter]

Nosocomial infections of Covid have not been a problem.

Incidence of Nosocomial COVID-19 in Patients Hospitalized at a Large US Academic Medical Center - PubMed

In this cohort study of patients in a large academic medical center with rigorous infection control measures, nosocomial COVID-19 was rare during the height of the pandemic in the region. These findings may inform practices in other institutions and provide reassurance to patients concerned...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[snakestretcher]

You're the one who equated the suggestion to take the vaccine with a television ad for a drug.

Oh dear. I was pointing out that carefully crafted TV ads, designed to encourage you buy stuff, are no different to your government doing the same with the vaccine. Nobody is ordering you, nobody is marching you to get vaccinated at gunpoint and the choice, however irrational and stupid not to get vaccinated, remains with you

 

[snakestretcher]

Nosocomial infections of Covid have not been a problem.

Incidence of Nosocomial COVID-19 in Patients Hospitalized at a Large US Academic Medical Center - PubMed

In this cohort study of patients in a large academic medical center with rigorous infection control measures, nosocomial COVID-19 was rare during the height of the pandemic in the region. These findings may inform practices in other institutions and provide reassurance to patients concerned...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In ONE institution. Any other reports?

Hospital-Acquired Infection: Definition and Patient Education

www.healthline.com

 

[screenwriter]

In ONE institution. Any other reports?

Hospital-Acquired Infection: Definition and Patient Education

www.healthline.com

How about you produce some that show they are rampant?

 

[Rawley]

You ought to check out some atheist sites to see some rhetoric about the harm caused by religion.

If vaccination prevented all transmissibility, I might concede your overall point. But reduced transmissibility is not a good enough reason to abrogate American rights.

CDC's own studies say vaccinated are only 13% less likely to get infected than the unvaccianted and infectious for only two days less.

 

[Overitall]

Nosocomial infections of Covid have not been a problem.

Incidence of Nosocomial COVID-19 in Patients Hospitalized at a Large US Academic Medical Center - PubMed

In this cohort study of patients in a large academic medical center with rigorous infection control measures, nosocomial COVID-19 was rare during the height of the pandemic in the region. These findings may inform practices in other institutions and provide reassurance to patients concerned...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Of these, only 1 case was deemed to be hospital acquired, most likely from a presymptomatic spouse who was visiting daily and diagnosed with COVID-19 before visitor restrictions and masking were implemented."

Am I reading this correctly? Only one case was found to be the result of being in the hospital and that was due to the spouse of the patient visiting. None from the actual staff transmitting it.