• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

A Ventilator Stockpile, With One Hitch: Thousands Do Not Work

Metric Mouse said:
So they were hoarding. Gotcha. I'm sure no one else needs ventilators today, so might as well sit in a New Jersey warehouse in case New York needs them sometime in the future.
Click to expand...

No, preparing for a worst case scenario is not hoarding. So no "gotcha". Try again.
 
Metric Mouse said:
To be fair, several administrations have ignored calls for more ventilators, specifically. Obama was just the last one to use up supplies and not bother buying more.
Click to expand...

You can't buy up supplies of time-sensitive materials like respirators because, in time, they will become useless as their chemical filtration degrades. Thus stockpiling is pointless and wasteful. Respirators typically have a 2-5 year shelf life.
 
Drawdown said:
LOL All you have done is proven that they actually were working on this issue in January despite repeated claims the administration wasn't doing anything.
Click to expand...

There is no indication that the work just didn't resume when the contract was worked out as opposed to the administration responding to the outbreak. They might have, but it would he completely outside the whole pattern of the response.

I don't see any rush to deal with the ventilator shortage at the same time we had only 15 cases and in no time they'll be down to zero
 
marke said:
Where are the state governments when it comes to stockpiling critical supplies in advance? Are all governors totally dependent on Trump to immediately miraculously supply all their emergency needs in every situation as soon as it occurs?
Click to expand...

What would be the role of an agency literally called the Federal Emergency Management Agency then?
 
Barnacle said:
Try telling that to Cuomo; he's hoarding them like mad - in NJ, I believe -, wants everything the federal government has so that the other 49 states get nothing when they put in their requests.
Click to expand...

What a charming way to say new York is on fire and how dare he want as many trucks as possible while it is.

He has also said that they'll ship everything they don't need to the next hotspot when their situation passes the peak and starts to subside.

Hopefully in time to save some folks in the states that didn't fall for the "hoax".
 
snakestretcher said:
No, preparing for a worst case scenario is not hoarding. So no "gotcha". Try again.
Click to expand...

Stockpiling supplies that are not needed in a crisis where those supplies are short is indeed hoarding...
 
What if...? said:
What a charming way to say new York is on fire and how dare he want as many trucks as possible while it is.

He has also said that they'll ship everything they don't need to the next hotspot when their situation passes the peak and starts to subside.

Hopefully in time to save some folks in the states that didn't fall for the "hoax".
Click to expand...

Hopefully in time. But until New York decides it doesn't want the ventilators, they may as well sit in a stockpile not being used by anyone.
 
Metric Mouse said:
Hopefully in time. But until New York decides it doesn't want the ventilators, they may as well sit in a stockpile not being used by anyone.
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt there's a bunch of ventilators sitting around unused. And if any are idle I doubt they will be soon. It's really bad in NY. And its not going to get better any time soon.

At least it looks like Californians have complied with the stay at home order well enough that we are predicted to peak April 18th without exceeding our capacities.

You can thank us for handling our **** by not running here when your red state explodes for refusing to implement social distancing. At least our responsibility should leave more resources for you in your time of need.
 
What if...? said:
There is no indication that the work just didn't resume when the contract was worked out as opposed to the administration responding to the outbreak. They might have, but it would he completely outside the whole pattern of the response.

I don't see any rush to deal with the ventilator shortage at the same time we had only 15 cases and in no time they'll be down to zero
Click to expand...

New York should have prepared better for such an emergency considering how much money they got after 9/11 and how many first responders have had lung issues since.
 
What if...? said:
I seriously doubt there's a bunch of ventilators sitting around unused. And if any are idle I doubt they will be soon. It's really bad in NY. And its not going to get better any time soon.

At least it looks like Californians have complied with the stay at home order well enough that we are predicted to peak April 18th without exceeding our capacities.

You can thank us for handling our **** by not running here when your red state explodes for refusing to implement social distancing. At least our responsibility should leave more resources for you in your time of need.
Click to expand...

Do you know anything about what you're talking about? California has 200+ deaths and 10,000 cases... how is that a win?

California coronavirus: Crowds packed beaches despite shelter in place order - CNN

Of course ventilators are sitting not being used; that's the entire point of this thread. Cuomo even admitted it when he asked for more ventilators.

The facts, okay Zack, somebody said on one of the cable news shows the ventilators that New York needed aren’t even being deployed. They’re in a stockpile. Yes, they’re in a stockpile because that’s where the supposed to be because we don’t need them yet. We need them for the apex. The apex isn’t here, so we’re gathering them in the stockpile so when we need them they will be there. We don’t need them today because we’re not at capacity today. That’s why they’re not deployed because they’re not needed. -Andrew Cuomo
Click to expand...

I don't know if many red states will flood New York... maybe? Right now it's the places that are "handling it" as you say that are flooding low infection areas, not the other way around.

Covid-19 pits cities and states against each other as they try to stop spread from out-of-towners - CNN

And for the record, I'm pro locking down hot spots. My post history is clear on that.
 
Last edited:
Drawdown said:
New York should have prepared better for such an emergency considering how much money they got after 9/11 and how many first responders have had lung issues since.
Click to expand...

Sure. They should have known we'd have an idiot in the whitehouse in 2020.
 
Metric Mouse said:
Do you know anything about what you're talking about? California has 200+ deaths and 10,000 cases... how is that a win?

California coronavirus: Crowds packed beaches despite shelter in place order - CNN

Of course ventilators are sitting not being used; that's the entire point of this thread. Cuomo even admitted it when he asked for more ventilators.



I don't know if many red states will flood New York... maybe? Right now it's the places that are "handling it" as you say that are flooding low infection areas, not the other way around.

Covid-19 pits cities and states against each other as they try to stop spread from out-of-towners - CNN

And for the record, I'm pro locking down hot spots. My post history is clear on that.
Click to expand...

Your article is from The second day of the stay at home order. Almost two weeks ago. Beaches and parks and whatnot are all closed now.

My data is from the same groupsm that did the modeling being used by the administration now. And it predicts California peaking April 18th without exceeding our medical capacity. Ventilators will be close, only like three available over the estimated need.

I predict we're going to see who had it right going forward. That those who shut down early will have better outcomes than those who resisted.

Now we just have to figure out how to keep the stupid from fleeing the stupid they supported in their home states and making their way here. And undoing what we have accomplished.
 
MTAtech said:
A Ventilator Stockpile, With One Hitch: Thousands Do Not Work - The New York Times

WASHINGTON — President Trump has repeatedly assured Americans that the federal government is holding 10,000 ventilators in reserve to ship to the hardest-hit hospitals around the nation as they struggle to keep the most critically ill patients alive.
But what federal officials have neglected to mention is that an additional 2,109 lifesaving devices are unavailable after the contract to maintain the government’s stockpile lapsed late last summer, and a contracting dispute meant that a new firm did not begin its work until late January. By then, the coronavirus crisiswas already underway.


This is what happens when people who don’t believe in government end up running one. Chaos and mismanagement rules the day. No national response, with states bidding against each other.

As of today, there has been no ban on exporting critical supplies and needed supplies being exported abroad.
Click to expand...

Life saving priorities are useless with capitalism. Here government issued Emergency Powers Act and it means government is taking over everything what's related to solving COVID-19 crisis in Finland. Even corporations are forced to disclose information what's not normally released (as there's no laws why you should do that). Army is also helping with surveillance as capital city area is in lockdown. I know it's huge middle finger to business, but it's damn effective counter measure with centralized planning and execution.

Authorities messed up in airport and people coming from other countries didn't get enough information => virus was spread more by them. Another mess up was in university hospital in Helsinki. One doctor (COVID-19 positive) went to work and now 15 other doctors are in quarantine. Good job, f*cker.

Also, what was really stupid too, is that government didn't listen our president Sauli Niinistö when he talk about establish special group of professionals / experts to deal with crisis - response was like "nah, we're just fine with current system". Guess what happens.. those f*ck up's and now we have (a bit late) this group of people. I mean.. president's idea is accepted now when things are getting much worse. President is law expert (his background) and he knew what's needed to manifest all relevant things when Emergency Power Act is in place. But no, we are not listening president, f*ck off - we got this. That was dumb, but now.. we have it and they are trying to do what's needed.

*edit: testing was also slow and it's getting some speed now - we have capacity, mistake was not to allocate enough people to do it.
 
Last edited:
Drawdown said:
New York should have prepared better for such an emergency considering how much money they got after 9/11 and how many first responders have had lung issues since.
Click to expand...

Please explain how one prepares for a completely unknown virus pandemic which nobody could predict when it might happen. If New York bought respirators after 9-11 they would be well past their 'use by' date by now; by about fifteen years in fact.
 
What if...? said:
Your article is from The second day of the stay at home order. Almost two weeks ago. Beaches and parks and whatnot are all closed now.

My data is from the same groupsm that did the modeling being used by the administration now. And it predicts California peaking April 18th without exceeding our medical capacity. Ventilators will be close, only like three available over the estimated need.

I predict we're going to see who had it right going forward. That those who shut down early will have better outcomes than those who resisted.

Now we just have to figure out how to keep the stupid from fleeing the stupid they supported in their home states and making their way here. And undoing what we have accomplished.
Click to expand...

California is only just beginning to see the surge from before they locked down. As you pointed out, it is still 2 weeks from their peak; after that will reveal much. I hope it turns out even better than they predict for states like New York, Washington and Michigan; it is bad enough there as it is.

As far as fleeing, the Federal government did suggest locking down the hotspots and keeping people from fleeing, and the people in those states called it "war" on their state. I'm not sure if other states would feel differently in the future.
 
Metric Mouse said:
California is only just beginning to see the surge from before they locked down. As you pointed out, it is still 2 weeks from their peak; after that will reveal much. I hope it turns out even better than they predict for states like New York, Washington and Michigan; it is bad enough there as it is.

As far as fleeing, the Federal government did suggest locking down the hotspots and keeping people from fleeing, and the people in those states called it "war" on their state. I'm not sure if other states would feel differently in the future.
Click to expand...

Remember. Its always that ****er that gets bit and hides it that ****s everything up.

Check out Covid19.healthdata.org. that is the site I am referring to. The same group that produced the graphs the administration is using that predict a best case of 100,000 deaths if we all do everything perfectly.

They have models for every state.
 
Last edited:
roberthughey said:
No where does the NYT mention this failure.

How Obama’s failure to resupply respirators in federal stockpile created a 2020 crisis | Just The News
Click to expand...

Trump has been the President since 2016. It is now 2020. Stop playing the victim and blaming Obama.

The White House denied a request by HHS in early February for $2 billion to restock the SNS PPE supplies. Only $500 million was allocated.....

Desperate for medical equipment, states encounter a beleaguered national stockpile
 
NY Governor Cuomo said this morning that the New York state curve should see its inflection point (downward slope) at the beginning of May and totally bottom out by August.

His brother Chris (CNN) is recovering from COVID. He's had a pretty rough go of it. Feeling somewhat better today but he still has a fever.
 
What if...? said:
Remember. Its always that ****er that gets bit and hides it that ****s everything up.

Check out Covid19.healthdata.org. that is the site I am referring to. The same group that produced the graphs the administration is using that predict a best case of 100,000 deaths if we all do everything perfectly.

They have models for every state.
Click to expand...

I hope New York and Washington and other hit states can keep their citizens from fleeing, but I don't know if that hope is well placed.
 
snakestretcher said:
Please explain how one prepares for a completely unknown virus pandemic which nobody could predict when it might happen. If New York bought respirators after 9-11 they would be well past their 'use by' date by now; by about fifteen years in fact.
Click to expand...

The one thing helpful is not to deny it's happening.

Trumps response to Corona.jpg

The next thing is mobilize the federal govt as the central contact point for getting supplies, so to avoid states bidding against each other.
Then, ban foreign sales of equipment and medical supplies that are in short supply here.
Next, dust off the playbook that was already written and follow it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom