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A Tough Question For Atheists

There are non-Biblical sources that mention Jesus. It’s fairly clear he was an historical character. As to creation, I was taught that religion tell us who created the world, science tells us how he did it. And as to your list of horrors in the world, Woody Allen put it best in his film Love and Death (I think): “If there is a God, he’s not a bad person, just an underachiever.”
God the Almighty an underachiever? Is that like the commercial wanting money for children to help them become what God intended them to be? Is god really that inept? And I should worship this?
 
'Fear' being front and center.

amen Logic

Especially in the more fire and brimstone type religions.

if the guy has any Power in his preaching

in Edwards sermon, 'Sinners in the hands of an Angry God'. the people in the congregation were Quaking in fear, they were white nuckle hanging onto the pew hoping not to fall into hell before the end of the Sermon.

wow, wish we had that preaching today. i don't care for panty waist, vanilla expositors when we need some Brimstone preaching among us.




1725397241450.webp...not often imitated and never equaled: Jonathan Edwards. read it and weep.

blessings. ❤️

.
 
Organized religion never, 'felt' right to me and after all the things I was taught about the god that loves me and on and on about this wonderful entity that died for our sins and his almighty powers to raise the dead and perform other assorted 'miracles' was a bit tough to swallow once I reached the age of reasoning for myself. Maybe one of the reasons was I never saw god do anything for all the talk of his powers, I found it all to be just too fantastic to be true and as an adult I'm sure it's bullshit. Gods are for fantasy stories, not real life.


many feel this way, but of course they are wrong, very wrong.




0001_14.gif...i wonder who's wining the ball game? but yeah, he was even in church that night. he just couldn't figure out that his sins needed forgiving and that he was heading for the Toaster soon.

and then it dawned on him

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many feel this way, but of course they are wrong, very wrong.




View attachment 67530346...i wonder who's wining the ball game? but yeah, he was even in church that night. he just couldn't figure out that his sins needed forgiving and that he was heading for the Toaster soon.

and then it dawned on him

.
Of course we are wrong, y'all know 'the truth'.
 
Of course we are wrong, y'all know 'the truth'.

thanks. but the rest of you should know it all by now.

let's get crackin.

blessings.
 
Theoretically speaking, science is open to any evidence. If there is evidence of some intelligent design, why would science deny it?

(And I am saying this as someone who has a big problem with current intelligent design people- mainly because they currently claim things WITHOUT proper evidence).
The teleological argument goes back to the Greeks and Romans, but in modern times, Paley's Watchmaker fails in its very hypothesis. In asserting a watch needs a designer, and using humans as evidence of this, the argument leaves open an infinite number of designers necessary to satisfy it logically.

It's as poor an argument as Pascal's Wager.
 
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Organized religion never, 'felt' right to me and after all the things I was taught about the god that loves me and on and on about this wonderful entity that died for our sins and his almighty powers to raise the dead and perform other assorted 'miracles' was a bit tough to swallow once I reached the age of reasoning for myself. Maybe one of the reasons was I never saw god do anything for all the talk of his powers, I found it all to be just too fantastic to be true and as an adult I'm sure it's bullshit. Gods are for fantasy stories, not real life.
Not just that but their premises are illogical and unreasonable and unprovable. I happen to believe in Pantheism. Whether someone else does or not is not important to me and doesn't give me or lose me any influence of power. Many people who post on religion have not studied the bible and since you went to Catholic school also you are far more knowledgeable about Christianity than most all people here.

I come from a mother and father and family of believers who were all indoctrinated with some being unshakable in their beliefs which to me are just as fantastical as Lord of the Rings and Scientology. The ploy they always use is a play on a question that is a diversion, and it has varying versions but amounts to, "If there is no God how did we all get here?" and if you can't answer the question, they think they got you. They hate an answer of "I don't know" because they imagine the DO know and they "know" only because this is what they were told. Not because it is reasonable or logical, but because their parents, grandparents, friends and society passed that on to them and said it was "true".

It's like a society who for centuries believed in a weather God who insisted you love him without question and when too many didn't, he inflicted drought or floods on them. 2,000 years and everyone still believes the story and because of that it must be "true."
 
Not just that but their premises are illogical and unreasonable and unprovable. I happen to believe in Pantheism. Whether someone else does or not is not important to me and doesn't give me or lose me any influence of power. Many people who post on religion have not studied the bible and since you went to Catholic school also you are far more knowledgeable about Christianity than most all people here.

I come from a mother and father and family of believers who were all indoctrinated with some being unshakable in their beliefs which to me are just as fantastical as Lord of the Rings and Scientology. The ploy they always use is a play on a question that is a diversion, and it has varying versions but amounts to, "If there is no God how did we all get here?" and if you can't answer the question, they think they got you. They hate an answer of "I don't know" because they imagine the DO know and they "know" only because this is what they were told. Not because it is reasonable or logical, but because their parents, grandparents, friends and society passed that on to them and said it was "true".

It's like a society who for centuries believed in a weather God who insisted you love him without question and when too many didn't, he inflicted drought or floods on them. 2,000 years and everyone still believes the story and because of that it must be "true."
My parents were divorced, a big no no back in the day and yet later on due to a 'special' dispensation from Rome, she was able to become a nun. Amazing how sins can be forgiven in different ways. My brother was an altar boy, he too believes none of what we were 'taught' about god.
 
My parents were divorced, a big no no back in the day and yet later on due to a 'special' dispensation from Rome, she was able to become a nun. Amazing how sins can be forgiven in different ways. My brother was an altar boy, he too believes none of what we were 'taught' about god.
I also was an altar boy and carried inside up and down the aisle. It seemed like the smell of death and one of things with Christianity is they think this life is a dress rehearsal. Like we are all puppets on a stage trying to curry favor with some maniacal creature we can't see but the game is to believe the story because if we don't, we are tortured for eternity by that "loving" God. Why? Well, because that's how some people interpreted some writing 330 years after Jesus was hung for sedition. We are not to question that dogma and are to believe regular humans knew precisely what books were to go in and what were not. The New Testament nowhere says that that it was inspired by any God. Most all of it was fabricated by Paul anyway. He was an angry ugly individual who saw a way to gain fame and acclaim by saying ME TOO! except that his teachings are just the opposite of what Jesus actually said.
 
except that his teachings are just the opposite of what Jesus actually said.
Except Jesus expounded on the sinner seeking forgiveness while Paul expounded on the Christian congregation itself...
 
Except Jesus expounded on the sinner seeking forgiveness while Paul expounded on the Christian congregation itself...
My post was about the faker Paul. He invented what is known as Christianity. Jesus never said the LAW died on the cross. He was a Jewish Rabbi and said the OLD TESTAMENT laws were still in place. You know this. You are a bible expert.
 
My post was about the faker Paul. He invented what is known as Christianity. Jesus never said the LAW died on the cross. He was a Jewish Rabbi and said the OLD TESTAMENT laws were still in place. You know this. You are a bible expert.
“Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.+" Matthew 5:17


True, Jesus did say: “Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.” (Matthew 5:17) But what does the expression “to fulfill” mean? To illustrate: A builder fulfills a contract to complete a building, not by ripping up the contract, but by finishing the structure. However, once the work has been completed to the client’s satisfaction, the contract is fulfilled and the builder is no longer under obligation to it. Likewise, Jesus did not break, or rip up, the Law; rather, he fulfilled it by keeping it perfectly. Once fulfilled, that Law “contract” was no longer binding on God’s people.https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010084
 
“Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.+" Matthew 5:17


True, Jesus did say: “Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.” (Matthew 5:17) But what does the expression “to fulfill” mean? To illustrate: A builder fulfills a contract to complete a building, not by ripping up the contract, but by finishing the structure. However, once the work has been completed to the client’s satisfaction, the contract is fulfilled and the builder is no longer under obligation to it. Likewise, Jesus did not break, or rip up, the Law; rather, he fulfilled it by keeping it perfectly.

Once fulfilled, that Law “contract” was no longer binding on God’s people.https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010084

almost correct. the Moral law of the Old Testament is still valid for christians today. murder, adultry, idols are all outside our christian life style.

the Ceremonial Law was fulfilled, we no longer need animal sacrifice; Jesus is the sacrificial lamb of God.

.
 
“Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.+" Matthew 5:17


True, Jesus did say: “Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.” (Matthew 5:17) But what does the expression “to fulfill” mean? To illustrate: A builder fulfills a contract to complete a building, not by ripping up the contract, but by finishing the structure. However, once the work has been completed to the client’s satisfaction, the contract is fulfilled and the builder is no longer under obligation to it. Likewise, Jesus did not break, or rip up, the Law; rather, he fulfilled it by keeping it perfectly. Once fulfilled, that Law “contract” was no longer binding on God’s people.https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010084
Let’s be fair to the other view of Jesus: despite his “fulfilling,” he did contradict some Old Testament laws and customs.
 
Let’s be fair to the other view of Jesus: despite his “fulfilling,” he did contradict some Old Testament laws and customs.

kind of like the New Sheriff in town.

Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and was there to save and create a new kingdom. they didn't get it and many rejected him.

very few really follow Jesus today too.

.
 
“Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.+" Matthew 5:17


True, Jesus did say: “Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.” (Matthew 5:17) But what does the expression “to fulfill” mean? To illustrate: A builder fulfills a contract to complete a building, not by ripping up the contract, but by finishing the structure. However, once the work has been completed to the client’s satisfaction, the contract is fulfilled and the builder is no longer under obligation to it. Likewise, Jesus did not break, or rip up, the Law; rather, he fulfilled it by keeping it perfectly. Once fulfilled, that Law “contract” was no longer binding on God’s people.https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010084
And fulfill simply means to follow them or DO them, obey them. Now, then....for all those who dispute what I say, tell me if he said In Matthew 5:18, “For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.”

I don't give a hoot over what YOUR spin is. No one can get around it. ALL is accomplished doesn't mean he accomplished all 613 laws. How does anyone do that anyway?
 
Jesus was engaging in hyperbole now? When you don't like the truth, you just engage in tortured apologetics.
Jesus used them quite often in his teaching...

“Why...do you look at the straw in your brother’s eye but do not notice the rafter in your own eye?” Matthew 5:3

"do not blow a trumpet ahead of you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets," Matthew 6:2

If, then, your hand or your foot makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you." Matthew 18:9

"it is easier for a camel to get through a needle’s eye than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.”+ Matthew 19:24

"Blind guides,+ who strain out the gnat+ but gulp down the camel!+" Matthew 23:24

“Not even a hair of your heads will perish.” Luke 21:18

"I suppose the world itself could not contain the scrolls written.+" John 21:25
 
Jesus used them quite often in his teaching...

“Why...do you look at the straw in your brother’s eye but do not notice the rafter in your own eye?” Matthew 5:3

"do not blow a trumpet ahead of you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets," Matthew 6:2

If, then, your hand or your foot makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you." Matthew 18:9

"it is easier for a camel to get through a needle’s eye than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.”+ Matthew 19:24

"Blind guides,+ who strain out the gnat+ but gulp down the camel!+" Matthew 23:24

“Not even a hair of your heads will perish.” Luke 21:18

"I suppose the world itself could not contain the scrolls written.+" John 21:25
So, he was just kidding. Got it. Thanks.
 
Hyperbole is a figure of speech and literary device that creates heightened effect through deliberate exaggeration. Hyperbole is often a boldly overstated or exaggerated claim or statement that adds emphasis without the intention of being literally true.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Hyper...aken+literally.&pc=GD01&form=GDAVST&ptag=6311
Tell me something I don't know. You already did when you said Jesus joked around and was just using "hyperbole when he talked about heaven and earth passing away", etc. This is rich fodder for how the minds of believers rationalize the irrational
 
Tell me something I don't know. You already did when you said Jesus joked around and was just using "hyperbole when he talked about heaven and earth passing away", etc. This is rich fodder for how the minds of believers rationalize the irrational
Hyperbole is not a joke, it is used for emphasis...
 
If the supernatural ever becomes observable, it will cease to be supernatural. I don't expect any surprises.

We could in fact observe supernatural occurrences all the time.

We simply don't.
 
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