A thread for Democrats: let's face it, there's no common ground with modern Republicans

[Craig234]

There's no sitting down with the dictator of North Korea, the leader of Saudi Arabia, the dictators of Philippines, Turkey, or other countries, and finding much common ground for, say, moving toward justice and western democracy.

All that CAN be done is a sort of corruption based on the corruption of where they are - some deals on some issues that are in their interest, whether based on threats of military force, bribes, etc.

And there are people around us like that. Imagine if one of your neighbors is a member of a street gang that regularly commits crimes. There's not a lot of chance of your talking to them and getting big changes - more just basic agreements, possibly, on minor issues.

We'd like to think Republicans, like Democrats, are fellow Americans who just have some different opinions, where there is mutual respect, mutual goals of things good for the country, room for debate, etc. The thins we see that's basically a lie.

For whatever reason, the Republican part of the country is basically radicalized. We've said it's like a cult, but that's literally the case. There is programming just like with any cult. And it's left them in a condition that is alien to the idea of our democracy pretty much.

About the only thing left in common it seems is some respect for election outcomes, IF Democrats can win by overcoming all the cheating Republicans do, and even that seems less and less accepted by them, with many supporting things like 'trump president for life'.

We need to accept this. To stop expecting that pointing out lie #14,322 by trump will get them to oppose him, that pointing out the harm of policy #521 will get them to see the harm, and just understand how they are in another world, unreachable.

We can recognize why to a point, the 24/7 media bubble they are kept in, distorting many things every day to fit a false narrative. A little like the views the North Koreans might have of the US, when they are fed a narrative constantly.

There's an old saying, usually wrong but right in this case, that 'the only thing they understand is force', referring to trying to say an adversary can't be reasoned with, only defeated. That describes Republicans also. The only 'win' that counts is not in talking, with all due respect to the purpose of this forum, not winning arguments, but in defeating them in elections (while we still have elections).

It reminds me a little of Nancy Pelosi's statement - which was, of course, lied about and distorted by them - about the ACA, when Republicans were lying about what it would do, so loudly that she recognized there was just no way to correct the lies, and she said, 'the only way many people will actually understand what's in the bill is after it's passed, and they see what it really does'.

There was no ability to talk to Republican American and informed them of the truth, and correct the lies they were being told. Of course, the liars distorted her statement to imply the bill had sinister things being hid from the public that they'd only find out about when it was passed, the opposite of what she was saying.

All we can do is hope enough Americans do not fall into the right-wing bubble, so that elections can be won, as the House was won in 2018 (and the Senate would have been, if not almost all the Republican seats were not in the election).

Luckily, so much of the Republican views are based on harming others, on favoring some at the expense of others, that there is a likely cap on their support.

It is still important that we speak out for the truth against the lies, but not so much for the benefit of the Republicans, who are blind, but for those who are less informed, who are vulnerable to being pulled into the bubble if they only hear the lies.

We need to recognize there is a problem: a threat to our theory of democracy, when millions of people can be so brainwashed, it defeats the premise of democracy - if you have the money, you can fool those millions almost no matter how outrageous the lie. We don't have any answer for it that's practical, unfortunately, but we should recognize the problem, instead of pretending just 'talking to them' will fix things.

And it reinforces what's most important practically, getting out the largest group of voters, those who don't vote. All that can likely be done now is to win elections.

 

[Brochacholomigo]

Honestly, our big concern at this point should be getting enough people in the house & senate to take gerrymandering away from the Republicans. Or even better, end the electoral college. Preferably both.

 

[Redress]

There's no sitting down with the dictator of North Korea, the leader of Saudi Arabia, the dictators of Philippines, Turkey, or other countries, and finding much common ground for, say, moving toward justice and western democracy.

All that CAN be done is a sort of corruption based on the corruption of where they are - some deals on some issues that are in their interest, whether based on threats of military force, bribes, etc.

And there are people around us like that. Imagine if one of your neighbors is a member of a street gang that regularly commits crimes. There's not a lot of chance of your talking to them and getting big changes - more just basic agreements, possibly, on minor issues.

We'd like to think Republicans, like Democrats, are fellow Americans who just have some different opinions, where there is mutual respect, mutual goals of things good for the country, room for debate, etc. The thins we see that's basically a lie.

For whatever reason, the Republican part of the country is basically radicalized. We've said it's like a cult, but that's literally the case. There is programming just like with any cult. And it's left them in a condition that is alien to the idea of our democracy pretty much.

About the only thing left in common it seems is some respect for election outcomes, IF Democrats can win by overcoming all the cheating Republicans do, and even that seems less and less accepted by them, with many supporting things like 'trump president for life'.

We need to accept this. To stop expecting that pointing out lie #14,322 by trump will get them to oppose him, that pointing out the harm of policy #521 will get them to see the harm, and just understand how they are in another world, unreachable.

We can recognize why to a point, the 24/7 media bubble they are kept in, distorting many things every day to fit a false narrative. A little like the views the North Koreans might have of the US, when they are fed a narrative constantly.

There's an old saying, usually wrong but right in this case, that 'the only thing they understand is force', referring to trying to say an adversary can't be reasoned with, only defeated. That describes Republicans also. The only 'win' that counts is not in talking, with all due respect to the purpose of this forum, not winning arguments, but in defeating them in elections (while we still have elections).

It reminds me a little of Nancy Pelosi's statement - which was, of course, lied about and distorted by them - about the ACA, when Republicans were lying about what it would do, so loudly that she recognized there was just no way to correct the lies, and she said, 'the only way many people will actually understand what's in the bill is after it's passed, and they see what it really does'.

There was no ability to talk to Republican American and informed them of the truth, and correct the lies they were being told. Of course, the liars distorted her statement to imply the bill had sinister things being hid from the public that they'd only find out about when it was passed, the opposite of what she was saying.

All we can do is hope enough Americans do not fall into the right-wing bubble, so that elections can be won, as the House was won in 2018 (and the Senate would have been, if not almost all the Republican seats were not in the election).

Luckily, so much of the Republican views are based on harming others, on favoring some at the expense of others, that there is a likely cap on their support.

It is still important that we speak out for the truth against the lies, but not so much for the benefit of the Republicans, who are blind, but for those who are less informed, who are vulnerable to being pulled into the bubble if they only hear the lies.

We need to recognize there is a problem: a threat to our theory of democracy, when millions of people can be so brainwashed, it defeats the premise of democracy - if you have the money, you can fool those millions almost no matter how outrageous the lie. We don't have any answer for it that's practical, unfortunately, but we should recognize the problem, instead of pretending just 'talking to them' will fix things.

And it reinforces what's most important practically, getting out the largest group of voters, those who don't vote. All that can likely be done now is to win elections.

If you cannot find common ground with fellow Americans, the problem is with you, not them.

 

[Surrealistik]

Completely and totally agreed.

There is simply no negotiating with someone like Mitch 'Turtleneck' McConnell; he's a stalwart self-admitted stonewaller to the bitter end and every attempt has either been in vain or cost us far more than we ever gained.

Better to focus on evicting the Republicans from the halls of power and building majorities than to attempt some futile compromise with those who have and will continue to stifle any substantive Democratic legislation no matter the cost. For all this talk about healthcare reform, we're probably not even going to get a public option so long as Turtleboy holds power in the Senate.

 

[Brochacholomigo]

If you cannot find common ground with fellow Americans, the problem is with you, not them.

No, it's definitely with them. There is no common ground to be had with someone who refuses to acknowledge reality when it contradicts their worldview by calling it fake news, who consistently supports their own tribe's representatives no matter how much said representatives violate their supposed principles, and who actively scheme and plot to disenfranchise voters who dare to disagree in a red state. All while projecting everything wrong with themselves onto us.

There's no reconciliation with the right, because the right does not care for reconciliation. They're just going to keep dragging the nation further to the right, taking a mile for every inch the centrists and corporate democrats will give them in the name of a fictional middle ground.

 

[joko104]

There's no sitting down with the dictator of North Korea, the leader of Saudi Arabia, the dictators of Philippines, Turkey, or other countries, and finding much common ground for, say, moving toward justice and western democracy.

All that CAN be done is a sort of corruption based on the corruption of where they are - some deals on some issues that are in their interest, whether based on threats of military force, bribes, etc.

And there are people around us like that. Imagine if one of your neighbors is a member of a street gang that regularly commits crimes. There's not a lot of chance of your talking to them and getting big changes - more just basic agreements, possibly, on minor issues.

We'd like to think Republicans, like Democrats, are fellow Americans who just have some different opinions, where there is mutual respect, mutual goals of things good for the country, room for debate, etc. The thins we see that's basically a lie.

For whatever reason, the Republican part of the country is basically radicalized. We've said it's like a cult, but that's literally the case. There is programming just like with any cult. And it's left them in a condition that is alien to the idea of our democracy pretty much.

About the only thing left in common it seems is some respect for election outcomes, IF Democrats can win by overcoming all the cheating Republicans do, and even that seems less and less accepted by them, with many supporting things like 'trump president for life'.

We need to accept this. To stop expecting that pointing out lie #14,322 by trump will get them to oppose him, that pointing out the harm of policy #521 will get them to see the harm, and just understand how they are in another world, unreachable.

We can recognize why to a point, the 24/7 media bubble they are kept in, distorting many things every day to fit a false narrative. A little like the views the North Koreans might have of the US, when they are fed a narrative constantly.

There's an old saying, usually wrong but right in this case, that 'the only thing they understand is force', referring to trying to say an adversary can't be reasoned with, only defeated. That describes Republicans also. The only 'win' that counts is not in talking, with all due respect to the purpose of this forum, not winning arguments, but in defeating them in elections (while we still have elections).

It reminds me a little of Nancy Pelosi's statement - which was, of course, lied about and distorted by them - about the ACA, when Republicans were lying about what it would do, so loudly that she recognized there was just no way to correct the lies, and she said, 'the only way many people will actually understand what's in the bill is after it's passed, and they see what it really does'.

There was no ability to talk to Republican American and informed them of the truth, and correct the lies they were being told. Of course, the liars distorted her statement to imply the bill had sinister things being hid from the public that they'd only find out about when it was passed, the opposite of what she was saying.

All we can do is hope enough Americans do not fall into the right-wing bubble, so that elections can be won, as the House was won in 2018 (and the Senate would have been, if not almost all the Republican seats were not in the election).

Luckily, so much of the Republican views are based on harming others, on favoring some at the expense of others, that there is a likely cap on their support.

It is still important that we speak out for the truth against the lies, but not so much for the benefit of the Republicans, who are blind, but for those who are less informed, who are vulnerable to being pulled into the bubble if they only hear the lies.

We need to recognize there is a problem: a threat to our theory of democracy, when millions of people can be so brainwashed, it defeats the premise of democracy - if you have the money, you can fool those millions almost no matter how outrageous the lie. We don't have any answer for it that's practical, unfortunately, but we should recognize the problem, instead of pretending just 'talking to them' will fix things.

And it reinforces what's most important practically, getting out the largest group of voters, those who don't vote. All that can likely be done now is to win elections.

Summary of your message: You don't like Republicans. Got it. You can do that.

 

[JustHanging]

There's no sitting down with the dictator of North Korea, the leader of Saudi Arabia, the dictators of Philippines, Turkey, or other countries, and finding much common ground for, say, moving toward justice and western democracy.

All that CAN be done is a sort of corruption based on the corruption of where they are - some deals on some issues that are in their interest, whether based on threats of military force, bribes, etc.

And there are people around us like that. Imagine if one of your neighbors is a member of a street gang that regularly commits crimes. There's not a lot of chance of your talking to them and getting big changes - more just basic agreements, possibly, on minor issues.

We'd like to think Republicans, like Democrats, are fellow Americans who just have some different opinions, where there is mutual respect, mutual goals of things good for the country, room for debate, etc. The thins we see that's basically a lie.

For whatever reason, the Republican part of the country is basically radicalized. We've said it's like a cult, but that's literally the case. There is programming just like with any cult. And it's left them in a condition that is alien to the idea of our democracy pretty much.

About the only thing left in common it seems is some respect for election outcomes, IF Democrats can win by overcoming all the cheating Republicans do, and even that seems less and less accepted by them, with many supporting things like 'trump president for life'.

We need to accept this. To stop expecting that pointing out lie #14,322 by trump will get them to oppose him, that pointing out the harm of policy #521 will get them to see the harm, and just understand how they are in another world, unreachable.

We can recognize why to a point, the 24/7 media bubble they are kept in, distorting many things every day to fit a false narrative. A little like the views the North Koreans might have of the US, when they are fed a narrative constantly.

There's an old saying, usually wrong but right in this case, that 'the only thing they understand is force', referring to trying to say an adversary can't be reasoned with, only defeated. That describes Republicans also. The only 'win' that counts is not in talking, with all due respect to the purpose of this forum, not winning arguments, but in defeating them in elections (while we still have elections).

It reminds me a little of Nancy Pelosi's statement - which was, of course, lied about and distorted by them - about the ACA, when Republicans were lying about what it would do, so loudly that she recognized there was just no way to correct the lies, and she said, 'the only way many people will actually understand what's in the bill is after it's passed, and they see what it really does'.

There was no ability to talk to Republican American and informed them of the truth, and correct the lies they were being told. Of course, the liars distorted her statement to imply the bill had sinister things being hid from the public that they'd only find out about when it was passed, the opposite of what she was saying.

All we can do is hope enough Americans do not fall into the right-wing bubble, so that elections can be won, as the House was won in 2018 (and the Senate would have been, if not almost all the Republican seats were not in the election).

Luckily, so much of the Republican views are based on harming others, on favoring some at the expense of others, that there is a likely cap on their support.

It is still important that we speak out for the truth against the lies, but not so much for the benefit of the Republicans, who are blind, but for those who are less informed, who are vulnerable to being pulled into the bubble if they only hear the lies.

We need to recognize there is a problem: a threat to our theory of democracy, when millions of people can be so brainwashed, it defeats the premise of democracy - if you have the money, you can fool those millions almost no matter how outrageous the lie. We don't have any answer for it that's practical, unfortunately, but we should recognize the problem, instead of pretending just 'talking to them' will fix things.

And it reinforces what's most important practically, getting out the largest group of voters, those who don't vote. All that can likely be done now is to win elections.

When Trump stood on stage in Helsinki, told the world to put their trust in Russia, not America, and Republicans defended him tooth and nail, it really exposed how wide the gap is between right and left in the USA.

 

[joko104]

It is curious to hear the Democratic candidates vowing their total opposition to bi-partisanship. To them, it's everything - they have absolute total power and don't care what anyone else thinks - or nothing.

 

[3leftsdoo]

Hey - as long as illegals get free heath care, what's the problem?

:donkeyfla

 

[Brochacholomigo]

It is curious to hear the Democratic candidates vowing their total opposition to bi-partisanship. To them, it's everything - they have absolute total power and don't care what anyone else thinks - or nothing.

One could have said the same of the Republicans for the last decade or so. In fact, the Republicans themselves said so.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

This is the type of rhetoric used by people who want a civil war.

I’m not entirely convinced the democrats don’t want the country to suffer a violent internal conflict.
The legitimate president has delivered peace abroad and tremendous economic growth and they daydream of round two of the Spanish civil war, it’s astounding

 

[Brochacholomigo]

This is the type of rhetoric used by people who want a civil war.

I’m not entirely convinced the democrats don’t want the country to suffer a violent internal conflict.
The legitimate president has delivered peace abroad and tremendous economic growth and they daydream of round two of the Spanish civil war, it’s astounding

The far right has been accusing the entirety of the American left of wanting to destroy the nation for my entire lifespan. Don't try to sell us some ridiculous victimhood narrative about how the liberals are the real aggressors; we're not buying.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The far right has been accusing the entirety of the American left of wanting to destroy the nation for my entire lifespan. Don't try to sell us some ridiculous victimhood narrative about how the liberals are the real aggressors; we're not buying.

The left is openly contemptuous of everything America stands for. They deny the Christian founding of the country, they Deny the influence of thinkers like Adams or Edmund Burke as being positive, they admire socialist dictatorships and want to eliminate the free market, they believe in individual rights only as applied to preferred political constituencies, and they deny federalism ideologically.
they deny key elements of the constitution. It is undeniable they want an America unrecognizable to the founders.

You can claim that’s fear mongering, but their own intellectuals openly say these things.

This philosophy is not conducive to pluralism in a country as diverse as ours and eventually there will be a reaction bigger then you bargained for.

The Spanish republicans refused to control their own extremist element and finally look where it get them, the French republicans led straight to Napoleon, etc

 

[Fruityfact]

If you cannot find common ground with fellow Americans, the problem is with you, not them.

K Hillary.

 

[Mustachio]

And it reinforces what's most important practically, getting out the largest group of voters, those who don't vote. All that can likely be done now is to win elections.

We have common ground, we just want to address it differently. Both sides want infrastructure, domestic security, immigration reform and economic growth. Radically different approaches on both sides.

Obama was actually a pretty conservative president. History will show that. It's bizarre that people claim he was a marxist, or communist, or any variation. He had Republicans in his cabinet.

I'd start with some form of "let's drain the real swamp - lobbyists, big business and bureaucrats owning legislators and controlling elections." Convince the American people that you will change policies with the least government intrusion, the most government efficiency, and the best intentions. That is your winning formula. I don't know who can deliver that message, however. So it's probably back to my suggestion of the Oprah/Tom Hanks ticket.

 

[Fruityfact]

This is the type of rhetoric used by people who want a civil war.

Ahh yes, thanks for the reminder that conservatives have always been on the wrong side of history and progressives have always had to go great lengths to move the country forward.

 

[Condor060]

The far right has been accusing the entirety of the American left of wanting to destroy the nation for my entire lifespan. Don't try to sell us some ridiculous victimhood narrative about how the liberals are the real aggressors; we're not buying.

I think its the exaggerations and hypocrisy the right gets tired of. You call them accusations if the right makes a statement of a Liberal claim.

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong but these are the positions of the left.


Decriminalizing Illegal Aliens
No more deportations
Elimination of ICE
No more building of barriers to protect our borders
Gun Control
Elimination of Fossil fuels
Tax payer funded unlimited term abortions
Tax Payer funded free College
Tax Payer funded free medical for all
Tax Payer funded free medical for Illegal Aliens
Elimination of the Electoral college
Politically correct social engineering
Elimination of student debt
Reparations for the descendants of former slaves
Four-year phase-out of private health insurance
More Government control

True conservatism isn’t my belief versus your belief, it’s understanding that our rights pre-exist government and smaller government is better.
Democrats want reshape an grow our government to a have more control while adopting Socialism as a key ingredient while welcoming a more global controlled government.

Once Trump was elected and given the outcome of such election in the form of the record setting economy, record setting stock market, record setting unemployment, 6 million new jobs, America has clearly stated its position. With the failure of the Mueller report to provide any criminal recommendations, we have now experienced the following:

CNN and other Liberal media tanking in viewer ratings as their extreme political views on display were exposed as fake news
DNC 6 million in debt with large financial donors leaving
RNC with over 33 million in cash
The lead Democratic candidate (Biden) raising around 25 million for his campaign while Trump is more than double at 54 million
The adoption of the #WalkAway platform recruiting Democrat voters
Minority support highest in the history of Republicans

I see it as the Democratic party brought all this upon themselves. Publicly accusing Kavanaugh as a alcoholic Rape Train conductor while withholding the information until the confirmation vote was ready, beating on the doors of the SCOTUS to stop his swearing in, the Vagina costume marches, Antifa, Screaming at the sky rallies, I mean, where does it end.

Americans don't want your ideas, they don't want to support this far left crazy politics. This isn't a case of Republicans fighting Democrats, this is a case of Democrats doing it to themselves.

 

[Athanasius68]

No, it's definitely with them. There is no common ground to be had with someone who refuses to acknowledge reality when it contradicts their worldview by calling it fake news, who consistently supports their own tribe's representatives no matter how much said representatives violate their supposed principles, and who actively scheme and plot to disenfranchise voters who dare to disagree in a red state. All while projecting everything wrong with themselves onto us.

There's no reconciliation with the right, because the right does not care for reconciliation. They're just going to keep dragging the nation further to the right, taking a mile for every inch the centrists and corporate democrats will give them in the name of a fictional middle ground.

It's true that the objective of conservatives should be to move the center to the right.
But the objective of the progressives is to move the center to the left.

However, it should be pointed, that when the progressives do not get their way, they are ones demanding that system be overhauled

 

[rickc]

Before we can do anything about the huge polarization of the electorate we have to do something about all the disinformation in our media.

I know free speach is a very important constitutional right in America but defining propaganda devised to brainwash the electorate and calling it news needs to stop.

Then we need to get.all the big.money out.of politics. Corporations are not people. Unlimited donations to the Pacts needs to stop.

Don't think it will ever happen though. Big money runs the show. As long as the.electorate is too stupid to see through the BS we are stuck with what we have now.

 

[ataraxia]

Honestly, our big concern at this point should be getting enough people in the house & senate to take gerrymandering away from the Republicans. Or even better, end the electoral college. Preferably both.

The courts have been stacked in a way to make sure that doesn’t happen for a long time either. Ditto for stopping big corporate money. That’s how a minority of uneducated rural people and those few plutocrats who brainwash them are dictating to the rest of the country.

 

[Luther]

If you cannot find common ground with fellow Americans, the problem is with you, not them.

What happens when we had undermined our own selves to get these "Fellow Americans" you speak of?

 

[trouble13]

No, it's definitely with them. There is no common ground to be had with someone who refuses to acknowledge reality when it contradicts their worldview by calling it fake news, who consistently supports their own tribe's representatives no matter how much said representatives violate their supposed principles, and who actively scheme and plot to disenfranchise voters who dare to disagree in a red state. All while projecting everything wrong with themselves onto us.

There's no reconciliation with the right, because the right does not care for reconciliation. They're just going to keep dragging the nation further to the right, taking a mile for every inch the centrists and corporate democrats will give them in the name of a fictional middle ground.

When you use words like reconciliation and compromise you really mean capitulation. That ship sailed with the Democrats cheering "bon voyage" under obama and now that you no longer have the control you once enjoyed your experiencing whats commonly known as "buyers remorse".

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[code1211]

Honestly, our big concern at this point should be getting enough people in the house & senate to take gerrymandering away from the Republicans. Or even better, end the electoral college. Preferably both.

Are you living under the impression that Gerrymandering ends if the Democrats are doing it?

 

[code1211]

Completely and totally agreed.

There is simply no negotiating with someone like Mitch 'Turtleneck' McConnell; he's a stalwart self-admitted stonewaller to the bitter end and every attempt has either been in vain or cost us far more than we ever gained.

Better to focus on evicting the Republicans from the halls of power and building majorities than to attempt some futile compromise with those who have and will continue to stifle any substantive Democratic legislation no matter the cost. For all this talk about healthcare reform, we're probably not even going to get a public option so long as Turtleboy holds power in the Senate.

What is the name of the healthcare reform bill passed by the house and sent to the Senate this year?

 

[code1211]

No, it's definitely with them. There is no common ground to be had with someone who refuses to acknowledge reality when it contradicts their worldview by calling it fake news, who consistently supports their own tribe's representatives no matter how much said representatives violate their supposed principles, and who actively scheme and plot to disenfranchise voters who dare to disagree in a red state. All while projecting everything wrong with themselves onto us.

There's no reconciliation with the right, because the right does not care for reconciliation. They're just going to keep dragging the nation further to the right, taking a mile for every inch the centrists and corporate democrats will give them in the name of a fictional middle ground.

Further right? Interesting departure from sanity in your view of the world.