A tale of 2 city's in decline .

[Simpletruther]

Show me. Show me how a teacher or a carpenter or a fireman or a nurse makes more real income

I did (for most incomes) in the link. I question whether you understand median income.

It represents a "middle" point. and thus represents a very large spectrum of occupations that pay in the middle range of american incomes.

So, by very definition, most of those occupations will pay more real income than the same ones in NY.

a nurse or a teacher could be an exception, I dont know. but the fact remains.

 

[vegas giants]

I did, in the link. I question whether you understand median income.

It represents a "middle" point. and thus represents a very large spectrum of occupations that pay in the middle range of american incomes.

So, by very definition, most of those occupations will pay more real income than the same ones in NY.

I question the data

 

[noonereal]

statistically, they could have done even better doing it from alabama

Blatantly false.

Peace

 

[Michael Cole]

do you understand that the typical alabamian makes more real income than the typical new yorker?

"Typical" is the wrong word.

Median values are halfway points. A median of $40,000 means half the population makes less and the other half makes more. It doesn't mean $40,000 is typical.

Consider 5 incomes.

$10,000 $15,000 $20,000 $25,000 $30,000

The median income is $20,000

Consider these 5.

$10,000 $15,000 $20,000 $1,000,000 $1,000,000

The median income is still $20,000, yet the earnings in the second set is much greater. There is no typical earner in the first set. The typical earner in the second set is $1,000,000. That's assuming "typical" means "common."

You can have large gaps between low and high earners which doesn't affect the median. Indeed, that's why it's used instead of mean. This would seem to fit with NY and Alabama. It tells us nothing about the opportunities in each state.

Look at it this way. Moving to Alabama is safe. You won't get rich, but you won't be poor, either. Or move to New York, where you might strike it rich, but you also might end up a little worse off than Alabamians.

 

[Nickyjo]

The Mother Lode towns are wonderful. The entire Sierra range is stunning. Outside of taxes, I agree, not much to dislike.

Gets me thinking about Angels Camp. Haven't been to the frog jumps in two decades.

Love that area: nice festivals for whatever reason, great bars, trout fishing a short drive away. Only problem with that part of the world is the presence of California’s state plant, poison oak.

 

[Simpletruther]

I question the data

Ok. I don't know for sure if the web site is accurate.

But here is another one form senses bureau

U.S. Trustee Program/Dept. of Justice

Alabama 52k income
New York 63k

These are unadjusted.

If you adjusted for 23% higher costs in New York, then Bama comes out on top.

 

[Michael Cole]

Love that area: nice festivals for whatever reason, great bars, trout fishing a short drive away. Only problem with that part of the world is the presence of California’s state plant, poison oak.

You had to remind me of that. Lol. I caught it once. Just over the hill from you in Orinda. I got it from the dog who had been rolling in it. I never pet that dog ever again.

 

[Simpletruther]

"Typical" is the wrong word.

Median values are halfway points. A median of $40,000 means half the population makes less and the other half makes more. It doesn't mean $40,000 is typical.

Consider 5 incomes.

$10,000 $15,000 $20,000 $25,000 $30,000

The median income is $20,000

Consider these 5.

$10,000 $15,000 $20,000 $1,000,000 $1,000,000

The median income is still $20,000, yet the earnings in the second set is much greater. There is no typical earner in the first set. The typical earner in the second set is $1,000,000. That's assuming "typical" means "common."

You can have large gaps between low and high earners which doesn't affect the median. Indeed, that's why it's used instead of mean. This would seem to fit with NY and Alabama. It tells us nothing about the opportunities in each state.

Look at it this way. Moving to Alabama is safe. You won't get rich, but you won't be poor, either. Or move to New York, where you might strike it rich, but you also might end up a little worse off than Alabamians.

. Yes I am well aware of of the meaning of median. It is indeed the best representation of the "typical" or average person.

It's not perfect, but it's considered the best number. Given that professions and incomes are on a pretty even continuim from low to high, without huge gaps, it comes close to representing the "typical".

as your last statement, it's not just that you "might" its that you likely will end up a little worse off than alabamians. It's built into the Stats.

 

[Simpletruther]

Blatantly false.

Peace

No, it's baked Into the numbers, of higher real median incomes of alabamians. They make 4k more per year to save for retirement.

 

[noonereal]

No, it's baked Into the numbers, of higher real median incomes of alabamians. They make 4k more per year to save for retirement.

Believe whatever nonsense you like.
No one wants to waste a life in Alabama.

 

[Simpletruther]

Believe whatever nonsense you like.
No one wants to waste a life in Alabama.

Call mathematical facts nonsense all you like. Noone wants to live poor in NY.

 

[Michael Cole]

. Yes I am well aware of of the meaning of median. It is indeed the best representation of the "typical" or average person.

It's not perfect, but it's considered the best number. Given that professions and incomes are on a pretty even continuim from low to high, without huge gaps, it comes close to representing the "typical".

as your last statement, it's not just that you "might" its that you likely will end up a little worse off than alabamians. It's built into the Stats.

Median is a great metric. It doesn't mean "typical." It means "halfway." Not at all the same thing. Words count, especially in statistical arguments.

It's likely that you'll lose playing the lottery. It's virtually impossible to earn $500,000,000 working a 9 to 5. Risk is involved. People take risks. That's why they move to Manhattan. You're going to find a much wider gap in income in Manhattan than you will in Birmingham. People are more than willing to risk coming up a little shorter than if they had chosen Birmingham.

You're relying far too much on a simplistic mathematical argument. Statistics measure behavior. You're using them to predict/advise behavior. It doesn't work that way.

All your argument proves is that out of 100 people, at a certain income, slightly more NY'ers fall in the lower half than those from Alabama. It tells us nothing about opportunity.

As has already been mentioned, there are no 1%er brokers in Birmingham. Many in Manhattan.

 

[Nickyjo]

You had to remind me of that. Lol. I caught it once. Just over the hill from you in Orinda. I got it from the dog who had been rolling in it. I never pet that dog ever again.

“Getting it from a dog” is one of two items in California lore that I wonder about. I assume it happens, as it makes perfect sense, but my mind goes to what seems to be folklore/myths/legends about two mountainous California phenomena, poison oak and rattlesnakes. Should you change your clothes after being near poison oak? Are young snakes more deadly cause they don’t have enough experience to know how much venom to inject us with? I think that we look at these scary creatures of actual nature like Romanians looked at mythical vampires, taking precautions in all sorts of ways that actual vampires, if they existed, would roll their eyes at. Funny, it made me think of a spoof of vampire films, maybe by Polanski, where a vampire is undeterred by a crucifix — because he is Jewish.

 

[Michael Cole]

“Getting it from a dog” is one of two items in California lore that I wonder about. I assume it happens, as it makes perfect sense, but my mind goes to what seems to be folklore/myths/legends about two mountainous California phenomena, poison oak and rattlesnakes. Should you change your clothes after being near poison oak? Are young snakes more deadly cause they don’t have enough experience to know how much venom to inject us with? I think that we look at these scary creatures of actual nature like Romanians looked at mythical vampires, taking precautions in all sorts of ways that actual vampires, if they existed, would roll their eyes at. Funny, it made me think of a spoof of vampire films, maybe by Polanski, where a vampire is undeterred by a crucifix — because he is Jewish.

I never went in it. The dog did. I had to get it from somewhere.

Of course you may be right. There was poison oak all around that house. I like blaming the dog, though.

It appears they can transfer it to humans.

Can Dogs Get Poison Oak? How to Keep Your Pet Safe

Can Dogs Get Poison Oak? How to Keep Your Pet Safe - Ollie Blog

blog.myollie.com

Poison ivy too.

Pets' fur can spread poison ivy to people, and so can the things pet fur touches | Arkansas Democrat Gazette

Neither cats nor dogs suffer from poison ivy rash, but their coats easily transfer the oil in poison ivy, poison oak and poison sumac to humans.

www.arkansasonline.com

 

[Nickyjo]

I never went in it. The dog did. I had to get it from somewhere.

Of course you may be right. There was poison oak all around that house. I like blaming the dog, though.

It seems they can transfer it to humans.

Can Dogs Get Poison Oak? How to Keep Your Pet Safe

Can Dogs Get Poison Oak? How to Keep Your Pet Safe - Ollie Blog

blog.myollie.com

Just reading the link gave me the willies.

I wonder how it came to be that poison oak never crossed the continental divide. I remember from my backpacking days that one of the advantages of braving higher elevations was the absence of rattlers and poison oak. It is the perfect trail side companion: in my observation, it it doesnt survive in complete shade or full sun, making partially shaded trails ideal for it.

But one wonders if it couldn’t have migrated through places where the divide is at lower elevations.

 

[Michael Cole]

Just reading the link gave me the willies.

I wonder how it came to be that poison oak never crossed the continental divide. I remember from my backpacking days that one of the advantages of braving higher elevations was the absence of rattlers and poison oak. It is the perfect trail side companion: in my observation, it it doesnt survive in complete shade or full sun, making partially shaded trails ideal for it.

But one wonders if it couldn’t have migrated through places where the divide is at lower elevations.

I used to backpack as well. I don't know if there's an altitude limit for mosquitoes, but if there is, it's very high. I've gone over 9,000 ft. ridges into lakes and the mosquitos were thick. I mean, so thick DEET was ineffective. Living here is too high for fleas, which is nice. They sell flea collars, though. Don't know why, but people buy them. Probably for dogs leaving or entering town.

Yeah, the geography is interesting. It would have to migrate through the Great Basin first, and it won't grow here.

 

[noonereal]

Call mathematical facts nonsense all you like. Noone wants to live poor in NY.

Update, correct. Its like being in the midwest.
NYC metro, the grandest earth has to offer.

 

[noonereal]

Just reading the link gave me the willies.

I wonder how it came to be that poison oak never crossed the continental divide. I remember from my backpacking days that one of the advantages of braving higher elevations was the absence of rattlers and poison oak. It is the perfect trail side companion: in my observation, it it doesnt survive in complete shade or full sun, making partially shaded trails ideal for it.

But one wonders if it couldn’t have migrated through places where the divide is at lower elevations.

I recall the first time I emerged from the trees above the tree line, it was magical.

 

[Simpletruther]

Median is a great metric. It doesn't mean "typical." It means "halfway." Not at all the same thing. Words count, especially in statistical arguments.

True it does not mean typical, but it's the best measure we have to approximate the typical.

thats why its widely used.

Is the mean or median better to describe "average" income? - Concept Stew

What is the mean? The mean is an average, one of several that summarise the typical value of a set of data. The mean is the grand total divided by the number of data points. What is the median? The median is the middle value in a sample sorted into ascending order. If the sample...

conceptstew.co.uk

If you know of a better one, let's hear it.

It's likely that you'll lose playing the lottery. It's virtually impossible to earn $500,000,000 working a 9 to 5. Risk is involved. People take risks. That's why they move to Manhattan.

Sure.

You're going to find a much wider gap in income in Manhattan than you will in Birmingham. People are more than willing to risk coming up a little shorter than if they had chosen Birmingham.

some people sure.

You're relying far too much on a simplistic mathematical argument. Statistics measure behavior. You're using them to predict/advise behavior. It doesn't work that way.

But it is good advise. Just like many advise that playing the lottery is a waste of money. It's highly likely you are wasting time going to NY to get rich unless you have incredible skills.

All your argument proves is that out of 100 people, at a certain income, slightly more NY'ers fall in the lower half than those from Alabama. It tells us nothing about opportunity.

Actually it tells us a lot about opportunity by definition. There is more oportunity to make higher on alabama, thats why more do so.

As has already been mentioned, there are no 1%er brokers in Birmingham. Many in Manhattan.

I would guess there are a few in Alabama, but basically I can agree on the general idea here. That's an opportunity ity in NY sure. It's just a rare opportunity.

 

[Simpletruther]

Update, correct. Its like being in the midwest.
NYC metro, the grandest earth has to offer.

Well opinions vary. I couldn't give a rats ass about much of it, and what I might enjoy, like good food, I wouldnt spend the money for. I'd rather save for retirement. Which I can do much easier on Alabama.
I enjoy cheap stuff like reading and playing chess.

If I had a billion, I might buy a 100 million penthouse in Manhatten and go there once in a while and sip some scotch and feel special.

But mostly it doesn't appeal to me. Rather be on a pretty farm with a huge lake. Tending a vegetable garden with a cute little kubota tractor, them catch and cook some bream.
If things go well I might have a version of that.

 

[Nickyjo]

Call mathematical facts nonsense all you like. Noone wants to live poor in NY.

True that no one wants to be poor there. But some years ago, walking down Fifth Ave in the crisp fall weather, air as pure as you might het it in NYC, having visited a museum or two, spending some time in Bryant Park, seeing smartly dressed women walking confidently, I thought to myself, no wonder some people consider this the center of the universe.

 

[Simpletruther]

True that no one wants to be poor there. But some years ago, walking down Fifth Ave in the crisp fall weather, air as pure as you might het it in NYC, having visited a museum or two, spending some time in Bryant Park, seeing smartly dressed women walking confidently, I thought to myself, no wonder some people consider this the center of the universe.

Yes it's a nice place I am sure.

But so is the sipsey swamp in Alabama, some Incredible scenes I have witnessed there.

A mama duck faking an injury trying to decoy us away and protect her chick's from our little boat floating down. Deer, Heron, beaver, a 50 lb alligator turtle we caught (these things are spectacular).
And there is nothing like the smell bacon cooking out in the fresh air in the morning out there.

 

[MrKnoItAll]

Sadly I see dems moving down South alot nowdays. Hopefully they move up north and stop infecting the south too.

 

[MrKnoItAll]

Like I said, if you want to be taken seriously, write correct English. It's quite suspicious that you have no idea how to spell something so simple. Obviously, English is not your first language. Or you are the personification of an actual MAGAt - dumb.

Yet you thought that was clever, didn't you?

Usually when liberals lose they tend to jump off topic quiet abit. Hahahahaha

 

[MrKnoItAll]

Florida is a far better place to live than the meth state of California