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A new constitution

Phil_Osophy

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I think its time a few amendments be clarified. And some new ones be added.

1) the right of the people to speak freely, whenever and wherever they want shall not be infringed. This amendment is to be construed in no way to mean that government can ever limit any speech ever. The only speech not covered by this amendment are personal threats.

2) the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall never be infringed. This amendment is to be construed in no way to mean that the government can limit certain types of firearms, the access thereof, or force citizens to ask permission to carry firearms or other weapons in any manner. The only weapons this amendment doesn't apply to are nuclear weapons, chemical weapons or vehicular weapons.

3) the right of the people to be free from unlawful searches and seizures of property. No citizen shall ever be searched or have his property seized without being witnessed by a law enforcement official committing a crime, or having evidence of a crime commited in plain sight, or without a warrant signed by a judge. No judge shall be permitted to sign a warrant without seeing evidence of a crime with his own eyes.

4) the human body is the property of the human. The government shall not force any human to do anything with his body that he does not want to do, nor shall the government prevent the human from doing as he wants with his own body.

5) the government shall never pass any law forcing or compelling the people to buy a product or service from a third party business, corporation, enterprise, or other private entity.

6) the government shall never use taxpayer dollars to aid any city, state, or country that is not part of the united states. The government shall never use taxpayer money to send military support to another government.

7) the government may only take military action to fight against a true eminent threat to the united states. This means an invasion or public threat of invasion. If the united states is not under attack, the government may not take military action against any country or other foreign entity.

8) no government officials salary shall ever exceed $100,000 a year (may adjust accurately for inflation). No government official can serve more than 1 term or 5 years, whichever is shorter.

9) only treasury may print money and all us money must be backed by a resource that the us possesses.

10) this constitution must be posted large enough for the average person to read from a distance of 10 feet at the entrance of every government building and in every courtroom.


Great ideas, right?
 
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Only question is what is considered a "personal threat"? Is "screaming fire in a crowded room" considered a "personal threat"? Or how about a "all x, y, or z should leaver our country?" or how about "all x, y and z are parasites and should leave or die?"

Disagree especially in an advanced, civilized, industrialized country. I believe people should have the right to bear arms, but then again leaves a wide opening to interpret this meaning like in our current bill of rights.

"With his own eyes?". Meaning what? He has to go to the crime scene a visibly see the crime/crime scene?


4) the human body is the property of the human. The government shall not force any human to do anything with his body that he does not want to do, nor shall the government prevent the human from doing as he wants with his own body.
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I agree.


5) the government shall never pass any law forcing or compelling the people to buy a product or service from a third party business, corporation, enterprise, or other private entity.
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I disagree, mainly cuz i agree with 100% gov funded healthcare.


6) the government shall never use taxpayer dollars to aid any city, state, or country that is not part of the united states. The government shall never use taxpayer money to send military support to another government.
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Disagree 100% on both parts.
i believe they should use taxpayper funded $$ to use military to support only one country South Korea....

7) the government may only take military action to fight against a true eminent threat to the united states. This means an invasion or public threat of invasion. If the united states is not under attack, the government may not take military action against any country or other foreign entity.


8) no government officials salary shall ever exceed $100,000 a year (may adjust accurately for inflation). No government official can serve more than 1 term or 5 years, whichever is shorter.
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Disagree on the term limits. If a constituent believes that they best represent them then why should they be denied that right?


9) only treasury may print money and all us money must be backed by a resource that the us possesses.
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Disagree.


10) this constitution must be posted large enough for the average person to read from a distance of 10 feet at the entrance of every government building and in every courtroom.
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Well seeing that i disagree with many parts....


Great ideas, right?
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In my opinion. no.
 
"This amendment should be in no way construed to mean that the government can infringe on this right forever and ever and always...unless it's where I personally arbitrarily draw the line on where government can infringe it."
 
The second worst idea of Thomas Jefferson's, behind his want for more revolution just to shake things up a bit.
 
Two sentences in and you refute yourself. Congrats.

"1) the right of the people to speak freely, whenever and wherever they want shall not be infringed. This amendment is to be construed in no way to mean that government can ever limit any speech ever. The only speech not covered by this amendment are personal threats."

It can't be limited, except for what's limited. I swear, you cannot make this crap up.
 

none of those are threats.

Disagree especially in an advanced, civilized, industrialized country. I believe people should have the right to bear arms, but then again leaves a wide opening to interpret this meaning like in our current bill of rights.
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How so? Where's the wide opening for interpretation?

"With his own eyes?". Meaning what? He has to go to the crime scene a visibly see the crime/crime scene?
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That's what he gets paid for. This ensures that people won't be searched for "smelling like pot".



I disagree, mainly cuz i agree with 100% gov funded healthcare.
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then it wouldn't be a private party, would it?



Disagree 100% on both parts.
i believe they should use taxpayper funded $$ to use military to support only one country South Korea....
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All they have to do is join the US.
 
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How do I multi quote one post and do breakdowns like that?
 
Phil_Osophy said:
How do I multi quote one post and do breakdowns like that?
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Eliminate the "/" in the first
 

Child pornography and yelling fire in a crowded theatre would be protected by the wording of this amendment. Also that you couldn't require a public school teacher to teach the school's curriculum. Or that you couldn't keep kids from shouting profanity in class. No national secrets, either. There are actually a lot of restrictions on speech in this country. Most of them are surprisingly good ideas, especially those based on a time, place, and manner restriction. Like keeping telling a political protest to keep the volume down after 9 PM on a Tuesday night so people can get some sleep. Also, you forgot religion, the press, assembly, and petitioning for redress if this is supposed to completely replace the 1st amendment.


So, military grade assault rifles with armor piercing bullets for paroled murderers? It's a bit wide. I mean, I personally don't want anyone carrying guns, but I know that's a minority view. Plus, what do you do when someone invents a new kind of weapon? Can it be added to the list of too dangerous weapons that can be regulated, or is anything we haven't invented yet automatically protected?


Again, missing details, but I kinda like this one. The 4th needs some serious love. Don't limit it to citizens. Guests of this country on a visa or green card should be entitled to the same rights. Visual confirmation of evidence might be a bit problematic. That excludes testimony from a witness, for example. But I like the general gist.

4) the human body is the property of the human. The government shall not force any human to do anything with his body that he does not want to do, nor shall the government prevent the human from doing as he wants with his own body.
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Protection for abortion and drugs? Cool. However, what about laws against medical scams? What about requiring FDA approval before someone can take an experimental drug? A side effect of this could be that pharmaceutical companies cannot be stopped from selling whatever they want to people without having to test their products and prove that they are safe and that they work. All they'd need is a TV add.

5) the government shall never pass any law forcing or compelling the people to buy a product or service from a third party business, corporation, enterprise, or other private entity.
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Our entire national budget is congress telling the president what products and services to buy from private entities. I know you don't like Obamacare (and I'd certainly prefer UHC), but mandating car insurance has helped a lot. This could also be construed to defeat regulations requiring some things in order to do other things. If there was an ordinance requiring safety equipment when swimming in a lake in Nebraska, that could be seen as compelling people to buy that equipment. This one is pretty problematic.

6) the government shall never use taxpayer dollars to aid any city, state, or country that is not part of the united states. The government shall never use taxpayer money to send military support to another government.
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That's silly. Foreign aid is a tiny part of our budget and a huge part of our international influence. Isolationism is death in the modern world.


Good gist, but it precludes too much. That would mean we couldn't have killed Bin Laden when we did. It would mean we couldn't be attacking Al Qaeda except in response to specific, public threats by them. Or maybe not at all, since they're threatening bombings and not invasions. And while some people might not like it, it is good that we step in sometimes to stop genocides and massacres of innocent people. That's part of being a superpower. Isolationism is, as I said, death.

8) no government officials salary shall ever exceed $100,000 a year (may adjust accurately for inflation). No government official can serve more than 1 term or 5 years, whichever is shorter.
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Here's the problem with low salaries. It's an expensive thing to be. And the less the job pays, the more an official has to rely on their private money. Which makes it harder for candidates who aren't rich to get into it in the first place. But that's more of an issue with elections, rather than compensation in office. But draconian term limits? You want to kick out someone who's good at the job that quickly? Yeah, it would be great if we could shake things up more, but this isn't the way to do it. Some leaders should keep their jobs because they're good at governing, and are doing the right thing for the people they represent. I like that we limit presidents (though maybe a single 5-8 year term might be a better idea), but in other areas, you really do want professionals who know how to do the job.

9) only treasury may print money and all us money must be backed by a resource that the us possesses.
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Kill the Federal Reserve. I'm with you 100%. But I'm pretty sure that our money is backed up by the collective labor of the American people.

10) this constitution must be posted large enough for the average person to read from a distance of 10 feet at the entrance of every government building and in every courtroom.
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Well this is just silly. And we shouldn't act like the constitution is sacrosanct. It's not. It's a work in progress and it will forever be in progress and we should never revere it to the point where we refuse to take a red marker to it when it needs fixing.

Great ideas, right?
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I was surprised. I expected to eviscerate this list, but I liked more on it than I expected to. There's actually some good ideas here. There's some bad ones, too, and some that are overly simplistic. But there's good. However, your "construed" clauses are clumsy and contain too many double negatives.
 

Inciting panic, e.g. yelling fire in a crowded theater, is not a personal threat, however calling for curtailment of one's food stamps or public employee union benefits may be considered to be such.



One can certainly assert that nearly any firearm can disable a vehicle including a standard pellet gun. The 2A now says keep and bear yet nearly all states have "legal" restrictions on the right to carry a handgun.


This is too restrictive. What about responding to 911 calls? Must citizens first convince a judge that a crime has been committed in order to get and officer to respond and perform a search?

4) the human body is the property of the human. The government shall not force any human to do anything with his body that he does not want to do, nor shall the government prevent the human from doing as he wants with his own body.
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People with contagious diseases should not be free to attend public schools or refuse treatment/quarantine. Would this make perverts flashing little kids at the mall legal?

5) the government shall never pass any law forcing or compelling the people to buy a product or service from a third party business, corporation, enterprise, or other private entity.
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No more mandatory auto liability insurance? This may simply allow the gov't to expand to offer a gov't version of these products and services, saying that they are "public options" priced based upon your income (a tax?).

6) the government shall never use taxpayer dollars to aid any city, state, or country that is not part of the united states. The government shall never use taxpayer money to send military support to another government.
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No more US allies? No more foreign military bases?


Again, this means no NATO/UN deals. A foreign power could thus freely invade Mexico and Canada so long as they do not attack the US directly in the process?


8) no government officials salary shall ever exceed $100,000 a year (may adjust accurately for inflation). No government official can serve more than 1 term or 5 years, whichever is shorter.
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LOL. No more US Senate (6 year term). Is a general, admiral or a SCOTUS justice a gov't official?

9) only treasury may print money and all us money must be backed by a resource that the us possesses.
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How about a fuzzy stuffed critter (teddy bear) kept locked up in Fort Knox, that the congress critters declare to be worth ten times the national GDP.

10) this constitution must be posted large enough for the average person to read from a distance of 10 feet at the entrance of every government building and in every courtroom.
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Restrooms in national parks?

Great ideas, right?
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Yep. Let the constitutional convention begin!
 
Phil_Osophy said:
6) the government shall never use taxpayer dollars to aid any city, state, or country that is not part of the united states. The government shall never use taxpayer money to send military support to another government. Great ideas, right?
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I'm sure the Nazis and the Soviets would think that is a fantastic idea.
 

Under Constitutional law, others may sign arrest warrants except Judges, in fact specific cases.

However, I don't agree with any elements here you suggest about the 4th.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
This is too restrictive. What about responding to 911 calls? Must citizens first convince a judge that a crime has been committed in order to get and officer to respond and perform a search?
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What about fire calls also, one can't wait for a warrant for a fireman to enter in, that is where EXIGENCY/EMERGENCY comes into play, see Michigan V. Tyler.
 
If "We The People" (as a whole) aren't making sure that the employees are doing their job and honoring their oath of office as to the Constitution, a constitutional convention isn't going to change direction for the better, in my opinion. The core problem has to be addressed first.
 

A Constitutional Convention would clarify those parts that have been interpreted too widely expanding the role of the Federal Government.and putting a more strict limit on what it can do. The "core problem" will be with us always, since there will always be people who want to expand the power of government for their purposes.
 

You need to modify the second. Naturally, there will be weapon advancement. Make a clause for energy weapons, light sabers, millennium falcons, you know....the future man.
 

I would mention that the exceptions would be threats of actions causing harm to specific persons or to the general populace or subset there of where the harm arises in the matter bodily injury, theft or vandalism to property of said people. In no way should this amendment be taken to nullify the ability of a person to seek remuneration of acts of slander or liable against said person.



The right of personal firearms cannot be infringed and no exclusions for any types of personal firearms can allowed whether by rate of fire, auto or manual, specific model, or by ammo capacity. The possession of artillery shall be determined by the State of a group of people in residence though a total ban on such cannot be allowed.



The government of the United States shall not commit a search and seizure of property or persons without a warrant issued by a Judge where evidence is provided given given reasonable cause for such to be executed. And such a search must have a specific time and place for the search and must list what items or persons that are to be the subject of said search. Also said warrant shall be given to the owners of said property and also to those people to be searched.
4) the human body is the property of the human. The government shall not force any human to do anything with his body that he does not want to do, nor shall the government prevent the human from doing as he wants with his own body.
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The government of the United States shall not make a willful imbidement of substances that are not inherently harmful to third persons a crime. The government of the United States must not require a imbidement of beneficial substances except where the benefit is considerably greater to the whole of the People where it prevents the spread of disease.

5) the government shall never pass any law forcing or compelling the people to buy a product or service from a third party business, corporation, enterprise, or other private entity.
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The government of the United States shall not compel the purchase of any product or service from any entity for any person for their own private use.
6) the government shall never use taxpayer dollars to aid any city, state, or country that is not part of the united states. The government shall never use taxpayer money to send military support to another government.
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I like this idea but bribing corrupt regimes are better than sending soldiers.


I would prefer: The government of the United States shall take military action outside of the United States only when the Senate has declared War as listed in the Constitution. This amendment will nullify the War Power Act.

8) no government officials salary shall ever exceed $100,000 a year (may adjust accurately for inflation). No government official can serve more than 1 term or 5 years, whichever is shorter.
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I believe in term limits but should be based on what office they hold. And there may be some way to limit remuneration for office holders. I would ban any thing like pensions and their health care when they no longer hold office.

9) only treasury may print money and all us money must be backed by a resource that the us possesses.
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The States should retain the issue of specie and we could forbid an establishment of a National Bank at the Federal Level.

10) this constitution must be posted large enough for the average person to read from a distance of 10 feet at the entrance of every government building and in every courtroom.
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How about something that is to remind the office holders of their responsibility to the Constitution than passing a mural that will be ignored?


Great ideas, right?
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It is a starting point at least.
 

I like your wording.
 
Phil_Osophy said:
think its time a few amendments be clarified. And some new ones be added.
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I totally agree.



I totally agree.


I totally agree.

4) the human body is the property of the human. The government shall not force any human to do anything with his body that he does not want to do, nor shall the government prevent the human from doing as he wants with his own body.
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I totally agree.

5) the government shall never pass any law forcing or compelling the people to buy a product or service from a third party business, corporation, enterprise, or other private entity.
Click to expand...

I totally agree.

6) the government shall never use taxpayer dollars to aid any city, state, or country that is not part of the united states. The government shall never use taxpayer money to send military support to another government.
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Disagree. Country can and must have allies whom can, if necessary, to help financially, Resource and military force.


Country should be able to punish enemies. Engage in "democratization" of savages should not. Victory must bring our country real tangible results.

8) no government officials salary shall ever exceed $100,000 a year (may adjust accurately for inflation). No government official can serve more than 1 term or 5 years, whichever is shorter.
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restriction in terms of not more than 2 cadences.

9) only treasury may print money and all us money must be backed by a resource that the us possesses.
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I totally agree.

10) this constitution must be posted large enough for the average person to read from a distance of 10 feet at the entrance of every government building and in every courtroom.
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Permanent tattoo with all the articles of the constitution, at birth.
Without the right to remove.
Great ideas, right?
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Yes, now it is great.
 
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Not Logical Jim ..... not logical at all .....

its dim
Jed .....
 
Open up that Constitution and the Liberals are going to swarm in there like sharks on a feeding frenzy. We won't even be left with something resembling the Boy Scout Oath.
 

I think you're onto something, but at the same time, I think your ideas need a bit more refinement. I have been interested in a Constitutional Convention for about a year and a half.

I do not believe the United States Constitution is adequate to the task of being our operative basic law. We should really be on our third, if not fourth, Constitution instead of our second. I don't believe amending the Constitution of 1787 is adequate or even advisable at this point. So much has changed from the time of the late Nineteenth Century, that in order to address all of the problems under the Constitution, you'd have to scratch out large swaths of the Seven Articles. I believe that does a disservice to the document, and doesn't do Jefferson's beliefs that it's up to those on the Earth at the time to determine their laws for themselves.

I believe a Constitutional Convention should start from a blank slate. We should maintain the principles of democracy that were enshrined in the amended Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. To make a better system, the new Constitution should adopt features from other nations Constitutions. This section can be divided into four parts, basic human rights that anyone in the United States is granted, the rights of citizens of the United States, the rights of accused or detained persons, and the last section should be rights of non-person legal entities such as businesses.

As a start, I believe we should seek to adapt the South African Bill of Rights of 1996 to American needs. This should be at the forefront of the Constitution, the original Bill of Rights was an addendum that was dismissed as unnecessary by the delegates in Philadelphia.

The second part should be devoted to the Federal Government. Everything in this section should be constructed in a way that should strive to keep the citizenry in control of the government. First off, there should be limits on Congress to ensure term limits, proportional representation, and controls on lobbying. I would even support adding a whole third House to Congress to give the States a say in the Federal government, but making sure that the People have supremacy. Secondly, the Executive Branch should be better defined. Thirdly, the Judicial Branch should become what I call a "professional judiciary". The judicial branch should be designed to let the judges themselves have a say in who among them should percolate toward the higher levels of the United States judiciary to serve as the first line of defense for liberty. A fourth branch, independent of the political branches would oversee elections and government budgeting and administration.

The third part of the Constitution should deal with the states and how they interact with the Federal Government. States should have their own enumerated powers that the Legislature and Executive cannot infringe upon.

The fourth part of the Constitution should deal with the Armed and Uniformed Services of the United States and their use. This would provide some much-needed clarification for the modern day. It would make it much more difficult for a President to unilaterally get the United States involved in a war.

Fifth, provisions for national emergencies.

Sixth and lastly, provisions for amending the new Constitution, how the new Constitution relates to the old Constitution, and an unambiguous supremacy clause. I believe that this Constitution should have provisions that call for a national popular referendum for Constitutional Amendments.

I am actually in the process of drafting a proposal on this very subject for publication in a book.
 

So yelling fire in a crowded theater is ok?

So we all get to keep anthrax?

So the prison system goes out the window?

The Nazis would have loved that.

Including public restrooms?
 

I am looking forward to yelling "fire" in a crowded building and watching people stampede and kill one another trying to get out since that would be protected as "free speech" under your suggestion.


Yay! I can release my vial of smallpox! All in the name of self defense.


Well that should certainly slow things down enough that I can go on my serial killing rampage for a good long while before the judge sees enough evidence to search me.

4) the human body is the property of the human. The government shall not force any human to do anything with his body that he does not want to do, nor shall the government prevent the human from doing as he wants with his own body.
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Cool! I can't wait to call up my buddy and allow him to carve me up and eat me. Cannibalism has always been a huge sexual fetish for me.

5) the government shall never pass any law forcing or compelling the people to buy a product or service from a third party business, corporation, enterprise, or other private entity.
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Yeah, because liability car insurance is a travesty. If I hurt somebody with my vehicle then they do not deserve a dime.

6) the government shall never use taxpayer dollars to aid any city, state, or country that is not part of the united states. The government shall never use taxpayer money to send military support to another government.
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That would have worked out wonderfully in WWII. I think we all would sound better speaking German.


Go ahead and park your nuclear weapons on our borders. As soon as you fire them and they hit us, then we got ya!

8) no government officials salary shall ever exceed $100,000 a year (may adjust accurately for inflation). No government official can serve more than 1 term or 5 years, whichever is shorter.
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I'm sure the best way to get qualified people for a job is capping their salary at below market value. That is what all the big corporations do. They tell the CEOs that they can only make $100,000 a year.

9) only treasury may print money and all us money must be backed by a resource that the us possesses.
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Because there are just so many single resources out there that could account for the $16 trillion dollars in US GDP.

10) this constitution must be posted large enough for the average person to read from a distance of 10 feet at the entrance of every government building and in every courtroom.
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Yeah...because our current Constitution is so hard to read. Its not like people can go to a magic box and type in "Constitution" and it will spit out many sources with a full copy.

Great ideas, right?
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They are something.
 
Who exactly would attend a Constitutional Convention today? Name one politician that we could trust to not **** it all up.

The end result wouldnt be better than what is already in place by a long shot.
 
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