A Message To "White Liberals"

[nucky9]

Very Very Good... This captions very well what I've been saying in great detail within my many posting.
In simplified terms: This is what it was always going to go through in the down fall of White Nationalism of Wealthy White Male Dominance; it was a system doom from its inception, because it bastardized the very Declaration that Established Independence, and it violates the very principles and values of The Preamble, and it spent decades contorting and abusing The Constitution and every system, organization, department, division and agency that our representative form of governance established. It used racism, to promote and sustain divisiveness, they used economic to stifle educations and they contorted by dogmatic bastardizations of religion, even to the point of promoting a 'white based imagery of historical figures the bible speaks of, down to the image of an angel as a little white baby with wings.
All such things as these 'young people reject" - they research, they investigate and their questions bring them into interactive discussion. The technology gives them the tools to research without having to pay a university to give them a minimized and distorted programmed version of history. They can and they do find it for themselves and they can trace it back to gain real truth.

Even the DNA things such as Ancestry.com has given people deeper insight to the make up of their lineage.

Yes, although I do think there is risk in the availability of information. *Distorted* information is as readily available, and many don't recognize that the application of the available information isn't always straightforward or something a lay person can do. I don't think I am so quick to cast down a formal education as you are. But, this is because I don't think the purpose of an education should be to learn facts, but rather, it should be to apply critical thought to the information available, with the recognition that there is always a new piece to the puzzle, just around the corner.

Unfortunately, my view of education isn't the current reality, by and large. Instead, much of the education system seems geared towards generating 'employables' rather than critical thought. I do see some backlash to this forming though.

Ultimately, I do think these challenges will be overcome. Information truly is power, and our world has unprecedented access to it.

 

[nucky9]

We've seen Gross Abuse of the Monetary Based System of Capitalism, which was designed as: A simple format of a system of exchange, based on Monetary valuation via the use of denominational currency".

• It made the exchange, for labor, goods, products and services, simplified. Man's greed abused it with the gluttony of hoarding. Their love of money made them embrace every evil in the quest for money.

The compulsion for 'more' makes sense, from an evolutionary standpoint. There is no such thing as too much success, when survival (and the transmission of ones genes) is at stake. As scarcity has given way to plenty, this has become distorted though, agreed. But, as the selective pressures that drove us become less relevant, I think we will see increased recognition that money's for money's sake is not the ideal to build our societies around.

 

[WokeBlackMan]

Hubris, that's what happened. It amazes me that all these pundits and experts can't understand that no one, in any part of the earth, likes to be taken for granted, and that's exactly what the new, secular, liberal order did. Had they inspired any kind of hope, instead of outright smugness, you wouldn't be dealing with any of these things.

Your side failed in many places, but this is really where you failed the hardest.

This is such a a false narrative, I don't know where to begin. I'm sorry, but you simply can't pass the buck on this one. The predilection of the modern white conservative is down to its own stupidity and whiteness. You're telling me that they hate the neo lib globalists, yet vote for a party(the republicans) that are 1000x what you claim the democrats is? That's some white victimology right there-you all should write a book about it.


Nah, it has nothing to do with democrats, but white, Christian, cis gendered identity politics. Your boy Bernie giving them free welfare ain't why they are bigots and allergic to basic facts. Obama couldn't even sneeze and they were on him-all those values just seemingly went out the window when the orange man exhibits them x100, huh? Cuz democrats bad? I don't think so bud.


The white working class is the nucleus of the problems of the white working class. The WWC have been the ones to push unlimited greed and globalism(imagine saying you hate globalism and all the walmarts are on your side of town, and you willingly frequent them); the WWC have been the most staunchly in opposition of progressive policies; the WWC put minorities under the jail for opioid use. The WWC made its bed and it has to sleep in it.

 

[RealityNow]

Yes, although I do think there is risk in the availability of information. *Distorted* information is as readily available, and many don't recognize that the application of the available information isn't always straightforward or something a lay person can do. I don't think I am so quick to cast down a formal education as you are. But, this is because I don't think the purpose of an education should be to learn facts, but rather, it should be to apply critical thought to the information available, with the recognition that there is always a new piece to the puzzle, just around the corner.

Unfortunately, my view of education isn't the current reality, by and large. Instead, much of the education system seems geared towards generating 'employables' rather than critical thought. I do see some backlash to this forming though.

Ultimately, I do think these challenges will be overcome. Information truly is power, and our world has unprecedented access to it.

I'm all for formal and informal education, I learned very young that, classroom training, must be followed up with independent research study, because classroom programming has a lesson plan structure it must move through. It takes the extra work to get the best out of what is being taught. Yes, Critical Thinking is a great element that motivates additional research and investigation of information that is presented.

 

[RealityNow]

Hubris, that's what happened. It amazes me that all these pundits and experts can't understand that no one, in any part of the earth, likes to be taken for granted, and that's exactly what the new, secular, liberal order did. Had they inspired any kind of hope, instead of outright smugness, you wouldn't be dealing with any of these things.

Your side failed in many places, but this is really where you failed the hardest.

You can't blame Liberal people for Conservatives choosing to feel diminished in the face of the inspiration, motivation and confidence of the Liberal people for their progress focused thoughts, their ideas, and their willingness to reach, to build the future.
Liberal people are not trying to recreate they past, they are not trying to stifle innovation, and they certainly are not trying to control and dictator over women, or chase the embrace of whites nationalist groups and mix and mingle with white groups of hate. Those groups are not part of the Liberal Population Socially or Politically.

Here is Imagery of:

Republican Convention


Democratic Convention

​

It was not liberal people who Attack and Fought against Unions and it certainly was not liberal people that promoted "Right To Work States. Conservatives cried about $30 something a month in Union dues, and ended up paying higher medical co-pay, higher deductibles, pensions plans no longer have company paid contributions, stagnated wages and absolutely no voice in the workplace. Companies profit became $Billions, Executive Pay became double and in some areas Triple digit Millions and class and craft pay did not progress and some no longer even get cost of living or longevity increase. Now, many should see that $30 they cried about, has resulted to very high level of losses.

 

[ambinonapronon]

You can't blame Liberal people for Conservatives choosing to feel diminished in the face of the inspiration, motivation and confidence of the Liberal people for their progress focused thoughts, their ideas, and their willingness to reach, to build the future.
Liberal people are not trying to recreate they past, they are not trying to stifle innovation, and they certainly are not trying to control and dictator over women, or chase the embrace of whites nationalist groups and mix and mingle with white groups of hate. Those groups are not part of the Liberal Population Socially or Politically.

Here is Imagery of:

Republican Convention
View attachment 67351899

Democratic Convention
View attachment 67351898​

Lol, Derek Bell still hated you. Hated you. Build a cross. Climb upon it.

 

[HangLow]

You can't blame Liberal people for Conservatives choosing to feel diminished in the face of the inspiration, motivation and confidence of the Liberal people for their progress focused thoughts, their ideas, and their willingness to reach, to build the future.
Liberal people are not trying to recreate they past, they are not trying to stifle innovation, and they certainly are not trying to control and dictator over women, or chase the embrace of whites nationalist groups and mix and mingle with white groups of hate. Those groups are not part of the Liberal Population Socially or Politically.

Here is Imagery of:

Republican Convention
View attachment 67351899

Democratic Convention
View attachment 67351898
​

It was not liberal people who Attack and Fought against Unions and it certainly was not liberal people that promoted "Right To Work States. Conservatives cried about $30 something a month in Union dues, and ended up paying higher medical co-pay, higher deductibles, pensions plans no longer have company paid contributions, stagnated wages and absolutely no voice in the workplace. Companies profit became $Billions, Executive Pay became double and in some areas Triple digit Millions and class and craft pay did not progress and some no longer even get cost of living or longevity increase. Now, many should see that $30 they cried about, has resulted to very high level of losses.

​

 

[DarkWizard12]

You can't blame Liberal people for Conservatives choosing to feel diminished in the face of the inspiration, motivation and confidence of the Liberal people for their progress focused thoughts, their ideas, and their willingness to reach, to build the future.
Liberal people are not trying to recreate they past, they are not trying to stifle innovation, and they certainly are not trying to control and dictator over women, or chase the embrace of whites nationalist groups and mix and mingle with white groups of hate. Those groups are not part of the Liberal Population Socially or Politically.

Here is Imagery of:

Republican Convention
View attachment 67351899

Democratic Convention
View attachment 67351898
​

It was not liberal people who Attack and Fought against Unions and it certainly was not liberal people that promoted "Right To Work States. Conservatives cried about $30 something a month in Union dues, and ended up paying higher medical co-pay, higher deductibles, pensions plans no longer have company paid contributions, stagnated wages and absolutely no voice in the workplace. Companies profit became $Billions, Executive Pay became double and in some areas Triple digit Millions and class and craft pay did not progress and some no longer even get cost of living or longevity increase. Now, many should see that $30 they cried about, has resulted to very high level of losses.

LOL

I've been to liberal events. It's nothing but smugness and sanctimony. That's hardly inspirational, I think people are kinda done with that.

 

[RealityNow]

LOL

I've been to liberal events. It's nothing but smugness and sanctimony. That's hardly inspirational, I think people are kinda done with that.

Your interpretation is yours, what you call smugness may well be your own lack of being pleased with yourself, because you resent their acceptance of themselves and they are comfortable with their sense of equality and enjoy the liberty to feel good about their individualism.
Your interpretation's seem to convey your resentment of that. Be assured, your interpretation does not define any event that is of Liberal Ideals for the support of America's Liberal Principles as laid out in The Preamble, and the Liberal Designs of The Constitution and its Amendments.

No, you will not find them in constant attack on the government, you won't find them trying to suppress the votes of other Americans, and you won't find them promoting bigotry's race bias, and you won't find them in attack mode at the provisions that their tax money invest in society or the assistance of members of society.

They are not chanting some dumb ass phrase of "Pull yourself up by your boot straps", because they know the only result from that is falling back on your ass. Liberals understand we all help each other rise up, and that America nor life is not a one man or one ethnicity or one race dominated world.

You won't find them trying to defeat Medicare, Medicaid, and you won't find them fighting against lowering the cost of higher education.
You will find them supporting improvements in senior care and in child care. You will find them in support of Union Labor, and you will find them in support of and for "all ethnicity and their appreciations for the greatness of diversity of individuals as persons, among all races and ethnicity of people.
You don't find them trying to deny something to others, or resenting seeing other benefit and gain help through programming established by Congress.

You will find them standing against the Conservative Repressions of Women, and you will find them supporting Religious Freedom and you will find them not submitting to right wing white evangelicals dogma of trying to dictate over other religions.

Your disdain for individuals who find and celebrate confidence the compassions, considerations and hope and faith for better conditions for all, and appreciate the vision of betterment for everyone, your distaste for people do not wallow in trying to find ways to deny something to others.... is your own choice of mindset.

Maybe you bring the mindset of how dare these white people mix with all these diverse ethnicities and races and multicultural mixtures and everyone feels good about the equality of each other and themselves. That might well sum up your definition of what you call smugness. Maybe what you call sanctimony, is people who understand The Preambles Values and Principles are for everyone and they celebrate that fact and give themselves respect for honoring those principles and values. Maybe your resent them feeling proud of supporting those principles and values, while being aware that others spend their time fighting against those principles and values because they don't want whom they don't like to share in the principles and values put forth in The Preamble. .

 

[DarkWizard12]

Your interpretation is yours, what you call smugness may well be your own lack of being pleased with yourself, because you resent their acceptance of themselves and they are comfortable with their sense of equality and enjoy the liberty to feel good about their individualism.
Your interpretation's seem to convey your resentment of that. Be assured, your interpretation does not define any event that is of Liberal Ideals for the support of America's Liberal Principles as laid out in The Preamble, and the Liberal Designs of The Constitution and its Amendments.

No, you will not find them in constant attack on the government, you won't find them trying to suppress the votes of other Americans, and you won't find them promoting bigotry's race bias, and you won't find them in attack mode at the provisions that their tax money invest in society or the assistance of members of society.

They are not chanting some dumb ass phrase of "Pull yourself up by your boot straps", because they know the only result from that is falling back on your ass. Liberals understand we all help each other rise up, and that America nor life is not a one man or one ethnicity or one race dominated world.

You won't find them trying to defeat Medicare, Medicaid, and you won't find them fighting against lowering the cost of higher education.
You will find them supporting improvements in senior care and in child care. You will find them in support of Union Labor, and you will find them in support of and for "all ethnicity and their appreciations for the greatness of diversity of individuals as persons, among all races and ethnicity of people.
You don't find them trying to deny something to others, or resenting seeing other benefit and gain help through programming established by Congress.

You will find them standing against the Conservative Repressions of Women, and you will find them supporting Religious Freedom and you will find them not submitting to right wing white evangelicals dogma of trying to dictate over other religions.

Your disdain for individuals who find and celebrate confidence the compassions, considerations and hope and faith for better conditions for all, and appreciate the vision of betterment for everyone, your distaste for people do not wallow in trying to find ways to deny something to others.... is your own choice of mindset.

Maybe you bring the mindset of how dare these white people mix with all these diverse ethnicities and races and multicultural mixtures and everyone feels good about the equality of each other and themselves. That might well sum up your definition of what you call smugness. Maybe what you call sanctimony, is people who understand The Preambles Values and Principles are for everyone and they celebrate that fact and give themselves respect for honoring those principles and values. Maybe your resent them feeling proud of supporting those principles and values, while being aware that others spend their time fighting against those principles and values because they don't want whom they don't like to share in the principles and values put forth in The Preamble. .

nah, it's definitly smugness and an innate inability of many(not all) liberals to listen to people they don't agree with.

 

[RealityNow]

nah, it's definitly smugness and an innate inability of many(not all) liberals to listen to people they don't agree with.

Why would anyone want to listen to people such as those that attacked the U.S. Capitol Building? That's as if someone is asking for people who oppose to segregation, listening to people who promote segregation. That's the historical period where white people who supported racial segregation , did not want to listen to people who opposed racial segregation and that went on for over 100 yrs and some still are trying to push their various forms of racial segregation and then wonder why no one wants to hear it.

There are people pushing their Anti Government ideology, and there are people pushing their Anti-Progress ideology, who want to stagnate growth and recreate the past, and they wonder why no one wants to hear it.

There are people pushing to destroy Health Care Coverages Advances, the same as people attacked Medicare since LBJ created it, and some people today who benefit from Medicare who support people who want to dismantle it, and they expect someone to listen to them.
There was the same scenario with FDR created Social Security, and people attacked Social Security, and many did not want it to be inclusive of Black People, and today, there are people who still want to deny Social Security Provisions to some, and they expect people to listen to them and they can't figure out why no one wants to hear their aims of "denying something to others".

Even today, there are those who want to deny EBT (Food Stamps) to people, and they expect someone to listen to them, and can't understand why no one wants to hear it.
There are people fighting against restoring Community Colleges to the NO Cost Education is was prior to Ronald Reagans distaste for minorities, women and poor whites to gain this education, once it was available to them, because he detested that it was no longer just something for average moderate to lower middle class white society to educate their kids in the community. Why would anyone who is incessantly trying to find ways to deny something to others in society, think that people who respect the whole multicultural society to want to hear people railing about denying something to others based on some bias criteria and bigoted agenda.

Why would anyone want to listen to a mass of people who don't want corporations to pay their fair share of taxes, and then complain about taxes being used to help society and help rebuild and build this nation to meet the 21st Century to support the innovations that continue to be developed every day. Just so some can cut programs to give more tax breaks to the wealthy who already don't pay their fair share of taxes. The same wealthy that resent tax money helping the general society, but they themselves want every benefit that tax money can provide them, when that tax money has been paid by the average citizens

It's as absurd as people who are anti-vaccine and anti mask, want someone to listen to them, when there is a virus that has killed over 600,000+ people, and infected and hospitalized many many many more people, and now is hospitalizing and killing young kids. Why in the heck would such types of people expect anyone to listen to them and risk their lives, because these people think they are superior to a virus that kills people and maim some for life.

There are no positive programs presented by Conservatives, they simply attack what exist and try to deny the advancements and upgrades to what is needed, while attacking the system of Government that makes this nation the great nation in governance that it has become, even while under the constant attacks from Conservatism.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Why would anyone want to listen to people such as those that attacked the U.S. Capitol Building?

so people want want to listen to the 73.995 million trump voters who didn't? Ok. Fine by me. If you're willing to listen to those millions of americans who went to work as normal to provide for their families and communities, by all means, i think it would be good.

That's as if someone is asking for people who oppose to segregation, listening to people who promote segregation. That's the historical period where white people who supported racial segregation , did not want to listen to people who opposed racial segregation and that went on for over 100 yrs and some still are trying to push their various forms of racial segregation and then wonder why no one wants to hear it.

There are people pushing their Anti Government ideology, and there are people pushing their Anti-Progress ideology, who want to stagnate growth and recreate the past, and they wonder why no one wants to hear it.

There are people pushing to destroy Health Care Coverages Advances, the same as people attacked Medicare since LBJ created it, and some people today who benefit from Medicare who support people who want to dismantle it, and they expect someone to listen to them.
There was the same scenario with FDR created Social Security, and people attacked Social Security, and many did not want it to be inclusive of Black People, and today, there are people who still want to deny Social Security Provisions to some, and they expect people to listen to them and they can't figure out why no one wants to hear their aims of "denying something to others".

Even today, there are those who want to deny EBT (Food Stamps) to people, and they expect someone to listen to them, and can't understand why no one wants to hear it.
There are people fighting against restoring Community Colleges to the NO Cost Education is was prior to Ronald Reagans distaste for minorities, women and poor whites to gain this education, once it was available to them, because he detested that it was no longer just something for average moderate to lower middle class white society to educate their kids in the community. Why would anyone who is incessantly trying to find ways to deny something to others in society, think that people who respect the whole multicultural society to want to hear people railing about denying something to others based on some bias criteria and bigoted agenda.

Why would anyone want to listen to a mass of people who don't want corporations to pay their fair share of taxes, and then complain about taxes being used to help society and help rebuild and build this nation to meet the 21st Century to support the innovations that continue to be developed every day. Just so some can cut programs to give more tax breaks to the wealthy who already don't pay their fair share of taxes. The same wealthy that resent tax money helping the general society, but they themselves want every benefit that tax money can provide them, when that tax money has been paid by the average citizens

It's as absurd as people who are anti-vaccine and anti mask, want someone to listen to them, when there is a virus that has killed over 600,000+ people, and infected and hospitalized many many many more people, and now is hospitalizing and killing young kids. Why in the heck would such types of people expect anyone to listen to them and risk their lives, because these people think they are superior to a virus that kills people and maim some for life.

There are no positive programs presented by Conservatives, they simply attack what exist and try to deny the advancements and upgrades to what is needed, while attacking the system of Government that makes this nation the great nation in governance that it has become, even while under the constant attacks from Conservatism.

i think it depends on their intent and the argument, doesn't it? And a conservative today only bears partial resemblance to a conservative 20 years ago, and many conservatives 40-50 years ago have joined the democrat party now(although, whether it's most or less....idk).

 

[RealityNow]

so people want want to listen to the 73.995 million trump voters who didn't? Ok. Fine by me. If you're willing to listen to those millions of americans who went to work as normal to provide for their families and communities, by all means, i think it would be good.


i think it depends on their intent and the argument, doesn't it? And a conservative today only bears partial resemblance to a conservative 20 years ago, and many conservatives 40-50 years ago have joined the democrat party now(although, whether it's most or less....idk).

I've heard some of the people who are Republican and vote the Conservative Agenda. I talk to them daily in my work environment, what I have found, (I don't know what others have found) but what I have found, especially in the older men among that group is, they often did not know the details of what they support. I've heard often the phrase, "I did not know what", "I'd never looked at it like that".. when I point out details in things they support, then when I point out historical facts they often look stunned. Now, whether they change their stance, I don't know because I don't know how they cast their votes in the end result of their actions.

I've heard more of them complain about many things, what we do agree on, is "I don't care for anyone abusing the system", but I also make them aware, that abuse is not select to any singular race of people.

Some of them ask me questions of "what do I think about this or that policy", I often go to my office and print out some of the details and bring that to them. I've had many say, the phrase, "I did not know this or that, because I had not read the bill or policy". (it's far easier to give them the actual information than to deal with trying to go back and forth about points, that way they can read it for themselves from the actual bill or policy.)

I realize many of these men are older than I and grew up with a different time in a different environment, but they do continue to feel open to come and talk to me and I go them and talk to them.

I also know people at work who have fallen out with family members over their political differences of who they vote for.

We talk about finances, one man told me he was back working because his pension was insufficient and his social security was low, because of years of working at a lower wage, and some are very frustrated. But, no one can reverse that condition for them, but they are appreciative of learning of programs and services that are available to them of which they qualify for.

I've worked public programs so I know what they are and what they can do to help people, and I have a friend who often tells me, that I should go to various places and inform people of existing programs, because there are a lot of people who simply don't know they exist, and some think they are not for them. I tell them there is no shame in utilizing what the government has designed to help people with their very same situations.
I'll tell anyone, don't use fraudulent agenda, because it will come back and bite you!!! Just put the facts of your situations on the table, the people who process these type of things don't make decisions based on personal drama, they have to follow the principles and guidelines of the programs.

I

 

[DarkWizard12]

I've heard some of the people who are Republican and vote the Conservative Agenda. I talk to them daily in my work environment, what I have found, (I don't know what others have found) but what I have found, especially in the older men among that group is, they often did not know the details of what they support. I've heard often the phrase, "I did not know what", "I'd never looked at it like that".. when I point out details in things they support, then when I point out historical facts they often look stunned. Now, whether they change their stance, I don't know because I don't know how they cast their votes in the end result of their actions.

I've heard more of them complain about many things, what we do agree on, is "I don't care for anyone abusing the system", but I also make them aware, that abuse is not select to any singular race of people.

Some of them ask me questions of "what do I think about this or that policy", I often go to my office and print out some of the details and bring that to them. I've had many say, the phrase, "I did not know this or that, because I had not read the bill or policy". (it's far easier to give them the actual information than to deal with trying to go back and forth about points, that way they can read it for themselves from the actual bill or policy.)

I realize many of these men are older than I and grew up with a different time in a different environment, but they do continue to feel open to come and talk to me and I go them and talk to them.

I also know people at work who have fallen out with family members over their political differences of who they vote for.

We talk about finances, one man told me he was back working because his pension was insufficient and his social security was low, because of years of working at a lower wage, and some are very frustrated. But, no one can reverse that condition for them, but they are appreciative of learning of programs and services that are available to them of which they qualify for.

I've worked public programs so I know what they are and what they can do to help people, and I have a friend who often tells me, that I should go to various places and inform people of existing programs, because there are a lot of people who simply don't know they exist, and some think they are not for them. I tell them there is no shame in utilizing what the government has designed to help people with their very same situations.
I'll tell anyone, don't use fraudulent agenda, because it will come back and bite you!!! Just put the facts of your situations on the table, the people who process these type of things don't make decisions based on personal drama, they have to follow the principles and guidelines of the programs.

I

and how do you feel about them being republican?

 

[RealityNow]

and how do you feel about them being republican?

I can't change them from being Republicans.... they don't come across as the right wing who attack everything, They are often mis-informed and simply don't have enough information. I know some who are considerate people who hold political office, they often side with things that help people, and oppose things that don't help people. Some people vote republican because there is much inferences that its the party of "white people". That stems from the Goldwater Era of promoting and interjecting not only racism but attack anything Liberal ideology as a basis of Republicanism.

I never said all Republican are the same, I speak against the Right Wing types who are always attacking something or the Right Wing types that embrace race bias, and race bigoted commentary. I think some republican are mis-informed about Conservatism and what it is, and what is origins connect to.
I know some people who are Democrat who tell me they were democrats since the early 60's of their family was democrats, I know that was the era where Democrats were led by Dixiecrats of Confederate Segregationist Ideology. The same as I think some of the Older Republican who are not Right Wing, still think they Republican Party is the part that voted for Civil Rights.

Many people did not keep up with Political Details, they just clung to "Party Line' never realizing the changes in Party Ideology. Democrats today are not the Democrats of the early Pre-1964 who were influenced by Dixiecrats Ideology. Republican today are not the Republican of Pre-1964 who voted for Civil Rights Passage in 1964. The bigger issue today, is "Right Wing Ideology" and Extreme Concepts of what they think Conservatism is. And many with an Anti Government, Anti Regulatory Governances mentality.
These types don't even know they set themselves back, because they are the ones who fought against Union Labor, and a fight against Union Labor took away collective voice in the workplace, took away progressive pay, took away company pension contribution and took away the way medical had been covered during Unionized shop programming.

There has NEVER been any such thing as Small Government and there NEVER will be, and there has NEVER been any such thing as "Fiscal Conservatives". There was only those who disliked the fact of Regulatory Policy and Regulatory Statues, and there were those who Only wanted Tax Money to go to what they want, and fought against Tax money being used to benefit "All" American People.
(Dwight Eisenhower was last Republican President to preside over a balanced budget. He had a balanced budget in 1956 and 1957. and he did it while getting the massive project of Freeways on track across The Nation.

No 20th Century Republican's Administration has created anything as beneficial to society as LBJ's Great Society Programs.
Roosevelt created great programs that gave the nation Social Security and Banking Reforms and Invested Across The Nation to uplift the Nation.

 

[Hypothetical]

Serfs were people who were owned by a local noble landowner, who used them to work his fields and produce food, textiles, medicines, and whatever else his lands could produce. They were not free to migrate to another lord without permission, nor to do anything other than work the fields. How in the world are liberal policies going to lead to that?

I mean my god , does no one understand using a descriptive term? if you have a better term for plebes or 3rd class citizenry, not quite slaves but not free people either, you tell me ok?

how is it going to lead to that? I am not sure what is hard to understand about attempting to take away constitutional rights, such as subverting the 1st amendment, tamping down on it, trying to abolish the 2nd amendment, allowing an influx of barely or unvetted illegal aliens with what amounts to open borders for cheap labor, adopting a general air of authoritarianism, and using propaganda against your own citizens.

footage of the president many progressives chose just released SHOWS that use of propaganda.. and that is not the first time, its only the first time they have been caught red handed where they can't pass the buck.

most of you do not believe in a deep state... you would not have it with Trump, yet who leaked that (Biden's) phone call?



you should watch that. it is not necessarily anti Biden and regardless of what you might believe , it is interesting.

 

[ashurbanipal]

I mean my god , does no one understand using a descriptive term? if you have a better term for plebes or 3rd class citizenry, not quite slaves but not free people either, you tell me ok?

Uh...I'm not sure what your point is. How are liberal policies going to lead to people who are "not quite" slaves? Your use of the term "serf" is way over the top--people in authoritarian countries like China or Syria today have more freedom than did medieval serfs.

how is it going to lead that? I am not sure what is hard to understand about attempting to take away constitutional rights, such as subverting the 1st amendment

Well, let's start with that. I'm a liberal, and I would alter two things about the first amendment. I'd keep freedom of speech for private individuals, but news organizations that knowingly spread false information would be guilty of a felony, and the principles involved would go to jail. Of course, the prosecutor would have to prove the case to a jury, and the standard of proof would have to be fairly high--in particular, the prosecutor would have to prove that the organization knew the truth, but intentionally reported otherwise. Individuals would continue to enjoy the same protections for expression, including lies--though I certainly wouldn't shield them from social opprobrium. Also, I would not allow incorporated businesses or partnerships to refuse service to anyone based on their membership in a group they do not choose, or that is of a protected class. Thus, no refusal of service based on sex, race, gender, religion, political party or affiliation, company affiliation, etc. Refusal of service has to be based on customer misconduct, and could, again, be decided by a jury if necessary.

Seems to me that even under those alterations, the vast majority would be just as free as they are now, and the few who would be affected would still be nearly as free as they are now. I have a hard time seeing how those changes would make anyone "not quite" a slave. You may disagree with those proposed changes (as I imagine you do)--and I may well ultimately be wrong to propose them. But I do know they won't significantly impact peoples' liberties--most folks wouldn't even notice the changes in their daily lives as far as their own actions are concerned.

 

[Hypothetical]

Uh...I'm not sure what your point is. How are liberal policies going to lead to people who are "not quite" slaves? Your use of the term "serf" is way over the top--people in authoritarian countries like China or Syria today have more freedom than did medieval serfs.

Well, let's start with that. I'm a liberal, and I would alter two things about the first amendment. I'd keep freedom of speech for private individuals, but news organizations that knowingly spread false information would be guilty of a felony, and the principles involved would go to jail. Of course, the prosecutor would have to prove the case to a jury, and the standard of proof would have to be fairly high--in particular, the prosecutor would have to prove that the organization knew the truth, but intentionally reported otherwise. Individuals would continue to enjoy the same protections for expression, including lies--though I certainly wouldn't shield them from social opprobrium. Also, I would not allow incorporated businesses or partnerships to refuse service to anyone based on their membership in a group they do not choose, or that is of a protected class. Thus, no refusal of service based on sex, race, gender, religion, political party or affiliation, company affiliation, etc. Refusal of service has to be based on customer misconduct, and could, again, be decided by a jury if necessary.

Seems to me that even under those alterations, the vast majority would be just as free as they are now, and the few who would be affected would still be nearly as free as they are now. I have a hard time seeing how those changes would make anyone "not quite" a slave. You may disagree with those proposed changes (as I imagine you do)--and I may well ultimately be wrong to propose them. But I do know they won't significantly impact peoples' liberties--most folks wouldn't even notice the changes in their daily lives as far as their own actions are concerned.

So what you are saying is, you would like to subvert the 1st amendment. Well if you want to do that , you need a constitutional amendment.

that is the problem with many progressives , is that they do not understand that if the government can curb the constitution other than the proper way for news outlets, then they can do it for anyone else as well.

the whole POINT of our constitution is so they CANNOT do that.

so they curb the news outlets, they abolish the 2nd, then they abolish the 1st altogether.. wtf are you going to do then?

Hitler did not take power by insurrection, he took power semi legally because he was ALLOWED to during a supposed crisis of the people.

 

[SoCal]

It's not a dodge. It's the way it is. I have multiple family members who work in hospitals, i hear all the stories that make me HAPPY that I never chose the medical field. They're getting far more in salary than me, and they're having to earn it pulling 30 hour shifts. If I worked that time at mcdonalds, with overtime, i'd probably get a similar amount...

The doge is not addressing the reasons why hospital workers are so overwhelmed (Dealing with Covid patients who refused to wear masks). And I agree, they are overworked, pulling 30 hour shifts in a 24 hour day is rough.

...It's not a yes or no question...or rather, it's a "both" question. Many countries had generous grain doles that was responsible for making famines worse. But I'm not against the idea of welfare in principle...

The question was, does welfare ensure Americans are not starving? Or to put it in simpler terms, are poor Americans starving? I'm not sure what your answer is.

...My position is that I accept the data. The data says our politicians are suck, and my conclusion is that I don't trust these people with my healthcare.

You need to listen to yourself, "these people"? Do you really believe universal healthcare systems in every other normal country in the world are created, organized and run by members of only one political party?

...You want to me agree with you on universal healthcare so badly, then find me better politicians...

...Well, I'm not a fan of our current system either, but I'm not going to trust its reformation/resolution/whatever with a party that, in almost every respect, hates my gut.

I.e. the leftists in this country are ****ing awful, and I am 100% going to promote delaying any sort of free healthcare until they grow the **** up.

So if I understand you correctly, you agree with the data that universal healthcare systems similar to the ones used in western Europe, provide more access, improved health (longer lifespans) at a lower cast, yet refuse to support such a system because the opposing party's politicians are inferior, don't like you and are too young/immature? Sounds like a classic example, 'cut your nose off to spite your face'...

 

[DarkWizard12]

The doge is not addressing the reasons why hospital workers are so overwhelmed (Dealing with Covid patients who refused to wear masks). And I agree, they are overworked, pulling 30 hour shifts in a 24 hour day is rough.

you think this just started with covid? really?

The problems i'm talking about with you are problems that have been around for at least the past 10 years.

please, don't patronize. I wasn't talking about covid. Covid only made already long-standing problems worse. they existed long before, and they will exist after all this.

The question was, does welfare ensure Americans are not starving? Or to put it in simpler terms, are poor Americans starving? I'm not sure what your answer is.

It can, but it doesn't do that all the time. Ask north korea.

You need to listen to yourself, "these people"? Do you really believe universal healthcare systems in every other normal country in the world are created, organized and run by members of only one political party?

I'm no TALKING about other countries. I'm talking about THIS country, and I do not trust our own politicians with MY healthcare, and you have yet to tell me why you do. If trump said he wanted universal healthcare, would you trust him to do it?

So if I understand you correctly, you agree with the data that universal healthcare systems similar to the ones used in western Europe, provide more access, improved health (longer lifespans) at a lower cast,

I think there are intrinsic differences between us and other developed countries, one being that their culture encourages healthy lifestyles, while ours does not. Differences that would keep us from achieving the same thing as europe even under the same system, and would HAVE to be addressed.

There are also issues with certain systems, such as the UK's NHS, but something like denmark, sure, i think is good.

overall though, yes, i do think universal healthcare is a great tool of countries to use.

yet refuse to support such a system

I support the idea of the system. I don't refuse to support it. I just don't support it in practicality.

because the opposing party's politicians are inferior,

I think both parties have proven to be rather untrustworthy, don't you?

don't like you and are too young/immature?

actually I think I'm too mature. It's great to think that, when you're young, that some great political leader is going to sweep in and save the day, but that's not how it works.

Sounds like a classic example, 'cut your nose off to spite your face'...

I just know how it is. I'm probably one of the few people here that's actually worked for politicians, and they didn't become politicians in the richest country in the world by being men of outstanding moral character.

you'll excuse me if I think the government would sooner poison me than cure me any time I became sick.

 

[TurtleDude]

LOL

I've been to liberal events. It's nothing but smugness and sanctimony. That's hardly inspirational, I think people are kinda done with that.

lefties think that diversity means a Chinese socialist, an Indian socialist, a lesbian socialist, a Latina socialist and an African American socialist. People who look different but think exactly the same

 

[RealityNow]

you think this just started with covid? really?

The problems i'm talking about with you are problems that have been around for at least the past 10 years.

please, don't patronize. I wasn't talking about covid. Covid only made already long-standing problems worse. they existed long before, and they will exist after all this.

It can, but it doesn't do that all the time. Ask north korea.

I'm no TALKING about other countries. I'm talking about THIS country, and I do not trust our own politicians with MY healthcare, and you have yet to tell me why you do. If trump said he wanted universal healthcare, would you trust him to do it?

I think there are intrinsic differences between us and other developed countries, one being that their culture encourages healthy lifestyles, while ours does not. Differences that would keep us from achieving the same thing as europe even under the same system, and would HAVE to be addressed.

There are also issues with certain systems, such as the UK's NHS, but something like denmark, sure, i think is good.

overall though, yes, i do think universal healthcare is a great tool of countries to use.

I support the idea of the system. I don't refuse to support it. I just don't support it in practicality.

I think both parties have proven to be rather untrustworthy, don't you?

actually I think I'm too mature. It's great to think that, when you're young, that some great political leader is going to sweep in and save the day, but that's not how it works.

I just know how it is. I'm probably one of the few people here that's actually worked for politicians, and they didn't become politicians in the richest country in the world by being men of outstanding moral character.

you'll excuse me if I think the government would sooner poison me than cure me any time I became sick.

Are you serious.... You should look at the nut jobs Republicans Elect... that's squarely on the Republican voters for choosing these nut cases. If you don't trust the government, then its the people who vote that you don't trust because they put these nuts in office.

Republican don't even understand or Respect the Principles and Values of The Preamble, and most people in Republican led states don't even know their own State's Preamble and it values and principles and what its duty is to uphold and promote those values and principle. Some states need to go back and re-write their Preamble and Define It in relation to what it represents in clear and detail values. Some are nothing but "two line spins" that offer up very little guidance for the crafting's within their Constitution.



Another point is "The Government Authorize Bills and Policy Measures", they don't directly administer medical care, that is for the Medical Professionals... you convolute simple things, just for the sake of oppositional promotions to anything and everything.

• People elect these Republican "Attack Artist" and they call that "Conservatism".

Conservatism started long ago, with the wealthy land owners, business owners and industrialist, who declared themselves as white men as the only ones with the right to vote and the only ones considered as person. So they could direct all resources to themselves and function like a faux version of Monarchy, while claiming Democracy as being for themselves only.

People would know these things if they read the truths of history.

The poor white man was only allowed to vote, because his vote could be controlled and directed to these wealthy men or whom ever these wealthy men put on a ballot. If they did not vote as they were told, they could loose their job, or even have the bank foreclose on their property of what ever else was controlled by these wealthy men could be taken from them.

People fell for the crap line of Fiscal Conservatism, which has never meant anything more than 'wealthy men controlling and directing resources to only what they want".

Republican's Lust for Power and Money Madness is an Evil, and that is exactly what we see in the Republican Party and its Agenda. They have shown they respect nothing of America, and will destroy anything they can't dictate and dominate over.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Are you serious.... You should look at the nut jobs Republicans Elect... that's squarely on the Republican voters for choosing these nut cases. If you don't trust the government, then its the people who vote that you don't trust because they put these nuts in office.

I already know republicans are lame. Don't blame them for how shitty your own democrat politicians are.

Republican don't even understand or Respect the Principles and Values of The Preamble, and most people in Republican led states don't even know their own State's Preamble and it values and principles and what its duty is to uphold and promote those values and principle. Some states need to go back and re-write their Preamble and Define It in relation to what it represents in clear and detail values. Some are nothing but "two line spins" that offer up very little guidance for the crafting's within their Constitution.

now do democrats. Stop pretending only one party is responsible for this madness.

Another point is "The Government Authorize Bills and Policy Measures, they don't directly administer medical care, that is for the Medical Professionals... you convolute simple things, just for the sake of oppositional promotions to anything and everything.

I hold both parties responsible for the stupid shit they do. Let me know when you're done shirking responsibility onto republicans, and I might find something worth responding to.

I'm not playing that "that one side is evil" to suit your ego. I think it's rare politicians are evil, and more just immature and inept.

 

[DarkWizard12]

lefties think that diversity means a Chinese socialist, an Indian socialist, a lesbian socialist, a Latina socialist and an African American socialist. People who look different but think exactly the same

exactly this. The first side to celebrity diversity are the first side to condemn you if you have an original opinion.

 

[RealityNow]

I already know republicans are lame. Don't blame them for how shitty your own democrat politicians are.


now do democrats. Stop pretending only one party is responsible for this madness.

I hold both parties responsible for the stupid shit they do. Let me know when you're done shirking responsibility onto republicans, and I might find something worth responding to.

I'm not playing that "that one side is evil" to suit your ego. I think it's rare politicians are evil, and more just immature and inept.

There is no comparison of Republican's and Democrats when it comes to what benefits this nation and people. I never said anyone was perfect, but I certainly call out the evil.
Republican have done everything to rig elections, gerrymandering and drawing crooked lines to try to corral the vote.