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A lesson on the difference between power and morality

Craig234

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Historically in the US, white people have been a large majority, and black people a minority ranging from very small to large in different regions.

This has led to power determining that policies and politics were pretty good for white people. Even when morality was respected more and policies more moral, it was because of power recognizing many white people supported that.

If the situation were reversed - black people with power and white people without power - we'd presumably see something similar in reverse.

Now, we're seeing demographics shifting and power and politics shifting.

Who is more likely to get black votes - the candidate who says, "OK, now let's have fairness and justice", or the candidate who does what politicians have long done for white people - who panders to black voters, and tells them they're victims (rightly or wrongly) and demonizes their opponents and is more radically backing them?

The same thing that has long worked for many white politicians pandering to white voters, should be expected to work for politicians pandering to black voters.

And just as too many white voters didn't care about 'justice' but instead liked pandering, we should expect many black voters will similarly prefer pandering to justice, given the choice.

I see an example of this expected result, IMO, with the protests over the officer who shot a black man accidentally and negligently instead of tasing him.

She has been charged for that crime of negligence; that is justice. But the protesters are demanding it's not enough, she should be charged with murder.

They're wrong. That's a demand based not on justice but on power - if we CAN demand it, why not?

Now, how should it be decided? Leaders could 'do the right thing', base their decision on justice, morality, the law. But is that our system? If these politicians are responding to the protesters based on their having power, the votes to vote them in or out, then they have ever incentive politically to do what the protesters want, and charge the officer with murder.

This is the difference between power and morality. Whether politicians try to look for what is justice, or look for what gets them the votes best. And our system is designed to reward the vote chasers and punish the justice seekers, when there is a conflict.

I don't have an easy answer to this. Any alternative seems worse. It seems like it's basically a competition between demagogues willing to try to use pandering to appeal to voters, and politicians who try to convince voters to support justice, and it's up to voters which they choose.

Which side do you expect to win over the protesters between the side saying, "you are wronged, demand a murder charge", and the side saying, "be fair, manslaughter is the correct charge for the negligent but unintentional accident"?

How do you try to help justice in this system? One way we've tried is by providing some insulation between the decision maker in the criminal justice system, and the politicians/voters - but that cuts both ways, sometimes providing insulation for wrong policies, and the political pressure still often finds its way into the process.

I don't know that we have a good answer for this. What we have are some better leaders who try to persuade society to choose morality over selfish pandering, which is not easy.

This will come up many, many more times.
 
I know it's not what you addressed but I have a very hard time believing that most federal level American politicians care about morality when they support US militarism.

It's hard to believe that she mistook her gun for a taser; they're different colors, feel different, and are supposedly holstered on the non-dominant hand side. OTOH, I heard that she warned "Taser, taser, taser!"

I have purposely not watched the videos of the recent killings.
 
I know it's not what you addressed but I have a very hard time believing that most federal level American politicians care about morality when they support US militarism.

This is an issue where 'national interests' drive policy - but people don't like to be told they're monsters, so they're given arguments why policies are moral. It's in our 'national interest' to use our power to take the riches of other countries, if 'national interest' is the only issue - so it shouldn't be. But on the other hand, that 'interest' is a top priority if not the only one.

It's hard to believe that she mistook her gun for a taser; they're different colors, feel different, and are supposedly holstered on the non-dominant hand side. OTOH, I heard that she warned "Taser, taser, taser!"

I think it's very clear she mistook it. And even more clear that the evidence would not support proof beyond a reasonable doubt that it was intentional to shoot him. It's not the first time, which is why I'd like improvements to prevent it, which I see no discussion of.
 
This is an issue where 'national interests' drive policy - but people don't like to be told they're monsters, so they're given arguments why policies are moral. It's in our 'national interest' to use our power to take the riches of other countries, if 'national interest' is the only issue - so it shouldn't be. But on the other hand, that 'interest' is a top priority if not the only one.
* It looks like the quote function is one of the changes.

Yeah, "It's in our national interest" is purposely vague. That excuse for US militarism pissed me off.
 
Yeah, "It's in our national interest" is purposely vague. That excuse for US militarism pissed me off.
It's really not an excuse, but a real reason - it's one of the more honest things you'll get told.
 
It's really not an excuse, but a real reason - it's one of the more honest things you'll get told.
Okay, how about we call "national interest" a hidden agenda that will remain hidden, most people will accept as being a good reason, and the press conference will end if too many nosey reporters ask what the term really means?
 
Okay, how about we call "national interest" a hidden agenda that will remain hidden, most people will accept as being a good reason, and the press conference will end if too many nosey reporters ask what the term really means?

I think that's not really hiding it, but rather pretty honestly describing it, even if it doesn't show how bad it often is. For example, saying we installed a dictator for 'our national interest' is more honest than saying we did it to help the people there.
 
I think that's not really hiding it, but rather pretty honestly describing it, even if it doesn't show how bad it often is. For example, saying we installed a dictator for 'our national interest' is more honest than saying we did it to help the people there.
From what I recall "national interest" is tacked on to other reasons that "sound" more just. The top things I think are "national interests" are:
1. There's a resource interest that a wealthy capitalist corporation wants increased access to (pipeline through a country; cheaper lithium from Bolivia for Elon's batteries [I haven't verified]), or that the US wants the more industrialized world to have access to (oil reserves).
2. Aerospace profits.
3. Financial profits.

In other words, militarism is good for bu$ine$$, we don't care who nor what we have to harm.
 
what some whites fear most is blacks having tons and tons of new children until one day the whites will be the blacks regarding racism and murder and massive poverty.
 
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