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No, you didn't. I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about the author of the linked article.
I did nothing of the kind
We made every effort to get Japan to surrender.
Ike was the only military leader who opposed using the A-bombs before they were used, and his opposition was pretty feeble and insignificant.
Show your plenty of evidence then
OK, fine. I am wrong.
Now provide a single piece of evidence that somebody who had the authority of the Japanese Government tried to surrender prior to 6 August 1945.
No, not these "nameless schmucks" we keep hearing. The name and place where somebody of authority made such an offer.
You are the one that claims they tried to surrender, put up or shut up.
Oh, and the meetings of the Privy Council of the Empire of Japan are easy enough to find. They were the only ones with the power to surrender. Please find in their meetings any mention of their desiring to surrender prior to 10 August 1945. I will wait for that also.
The US was opposed to Japanese expansion in that part of the war. Of course we criticized their atrocities, we are America, after all, but the bit of research I just did said it was their expansionism, brutal or not. They killed hundreds of thousands. In our hemisphere the US was opposed to any leftist movement, however democratic, in Latin America, due to our blind anti-communism and our own softer imperialism. We armed and trained soldiers and supported governments that murdered hundreds of thousands in our region. When Carter’s human rights policy criticized and withdrew aid from some of these countries, some on the moderate left in the region were flabbergasted. I saw an article in a Spanish language Christian magazine suggesting this was a way of recovering moral standing after Vietnam, else why would a country that had overthrown democracy and supported tyranny for decades care about, say, torture in Chile?
The difference between what Japan did in Asia and what the US helped others to do in Latin America was like the difference between dog **** and cat ****. Dog **** comes in larger quantities. Both stink.
I worked on these issues for 20 years. If you want stats and stories, I can provide them.
“You know the most terrible decision a man ever had to make was made by me at Potsdam. It had nothing to do with Russia or Britain or Germany. It was a decision to loose the most terrible of all destructive forces for the wholesale slaughter of human beings. The Secretary of War, Mr. Stimson, and I weighed that decision most prayerfully. But the President had to decide. It occurred to me that a quarter of a million of the flower of our young manhood was worth a couple of Japanese cities, and I still think that they were and are. But I couldn’t help but think of the necessity of blotting out women and children and non-combatants. We gave them fair warning and asked them to quit. We picked a couple of cities where war work was the principle industry, and dropped bombs. Russia hurried in and the war ended.”
The Atomic Bomb and the End of World War II | National Security Archive
Truman's own words.
"On December 29, two days before the Emperor's "declaration of humanity," the same unit reported that "informed sources claim that many people have reached a state where it is almost immaterial to them whether the Emperor is retained or not".
"Shortly after this, the US Strategic Bombing Survey conducted a survey asking Japanese what their feelings had been when they heard Japan have given up in the war. In a striking demonstration of the extent to which ordinary people have become bystanders where the emperor was concerned, only 4% checked off 'worry about the Emperor, shame for Emperor, sorrow for him'".
"Jokes about the emperor and flippancy in speaking of him were another small sign that awe toward the sovereign was not so great as the royalists or Fellers and MacArthur insisted."
They were radical ideologues, and I don't see any room for talks working with them.
What we could have done was try to work AROUND them with the others who were not the militarists, including the emperor. But yes, by that time, concerns about the value of Japanese life seem to have been pretty low.
Elaborate invasion plans exist right now for china, Russia. North korea.
It's just paper.
Can you quote any generals saying the bomb was needed before it was dropped?
Can't be a good article if it argues Truman was wrong. Common (Wet) Dreams blathers the loony left crap constantly.
This really sounds like opinion and I see no link
The US has moved huge numbers of men around the world to prepare to invade Russia, China or North Korea? Got a source for that? Because they did move said men to prepare to invade the Home Islands, and I rather doubt it was just for ****s and giggles.
Did any generals talk about the top secret super weapon before it was used? No, they did not. Again, do you have any evidence that...well....anyone thought we weren’t going to have to invade Japan prior to the atomic bombs being used?
It's from "Embracing Defeat: Japan in the Wake of World War II" By John W. Dower
Amazing what a simple google search will reveal.
The page you requested can not be found. Lol
The US plans for every eventuality in war. Most war plans never see the battlefield.
So you can quote no generals saying they were for it except marshall and I can quote lots saying they against it
"On December 29, two days before the Emperor's "declaration of humanity," the same unit reported that "informed sources claim that many people have reached a state where it is almost immaterial to them whether the Emperor is retained or not".
"Shortly after this, the US Strategic Bombing Survey conducted a survey asking Japanese what their feelings had been when they heard Japan have given up in the war. In a striking demonstration of the extent to which ordinary people have become bystanders where the emperor was concerned, only 4% checked off 'worry about the Emperor, shame for Emperor, sorrow for him'".
"Jokes about the emperor and flippancy in speaking of him were another small sign that awe toward the sovereign was not so great as the royalists or Fellers and MacArthur insisted."
I didn't say were trying to surrender, you are arguing a straw man. I've seen some claims of the US rejecting their offer to surrender with protection for the emperor. But my point was that we did not make an effort to get their surrender on those terms. We demanded unconditional surrender, and dropped the bombs instead.
Uhhhh, they WERE the Government.
First, there is the Taisei Yokusankai, or "Imperial Rule Assistance Association". This was the "Ruling Party", created to bring all of the conflicting political parties into line and truly turn Japan into a "Single Party State". All political parties, trade unions, guilds, media outlets, industry, all immediately came under the control of the Taisei Yokusankai.
In essence, it was the "Japanese NSDAP Party".
And this was done in 1940. In 1942 they had their only elections, and the Taisei Yokusankai claimed 381 of 466 seats in the Diet. Which became pointless, because after the election all members of the Diet were mandated to disavow their previous political affiliations and become members of the Taisei Yokusankai. Either that, or they could not hold their seat.
So that eliminates the entire political system. The Privy Council is the next step, and even on the day of the first bomb they voted 6 to 0 to continue the war at all costs. So they are out.
The Emperor? Now I know you do not know what you are talking about. He was a Spiritual Leader, not an actual Leader King. He literally had no power, the most he could do is in the event of a tie in his Privy Council he could break that tie. Which happened only once.
He never even spoke on a telephone or on the radio prior to the announcement of the surrender. And somehow you were going to use him? Even though he did not allow his voice to be broadcast on the radio, he did give personal speeches. And all through the war he was a strong supporter, even making speeches and writing letters encouraging his people to fight on no matter what the cost, and that death was preferred to surrender.
And you were somehow gonna get him to listen? Might as well try to claim you were going to kidnap the Pope and get him to deny the Divinity of Christ.
The emperor had long been of extreme symbolic importance, yet often actually powerless, such as being kidnapped by forces who used his prestige to rule.
It's an interesting topic, people's real views versus the official status as a divine rule claiming lineage going back to 660 BC. The emperor had long been of extreme symbolic importance, yet often actually powerless, such as being kidnapped by forces who used his prestige to rule.
Again......if you have evidence of generals opposing a ground invasion of Japan before the atomic bombs were dropped.....provide it.
Otherwise, it’s just meaningless posturing.
The US government doesn’t expend vast amounts of resources to move men thousands of miles for a plan that will “never see the battlefield”.
Yeah truman did not care about those women and children.
No, you do not understand how it works. You're trying to create some imaginary inflexibility because it helps your argument. IMO your 'weakness' argument is just one more thing you make up for the same purpose. The Japanese views were based on other things, like facts, and wouldn't be affected by the US communication.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised you get Vietnam wrong, too. Here's what's relevant there: LBJ spent 1968 pursuing peace. He got an agreement with the North Vietnamese. Nixon secretly, treasonously persuaded the South Vietnamese to refuse, to help Nixon win the election. Under Nixon, the North had little reason to agree to peace on US terms, until the US finally essentially surrendered with some pretenses trying to save face.
I don't think we could have done things 'into the hands' of the militarists in Tokyo.
They were radical ideologues, and I don't see any room for talks working with them.
What we could have done was try to work AROUND them with the others who were not the militarists, including the emperor. But yes, by that time, concerns about the value of Japanese life seem to have been pretty low.
You're hatred of America is palatable.
Canada helped us build the bomb as did Britain.
Where will you immigrate to?
We had to support bad guys during the Cold War in order to prevent the Soviets from conquering the world.
That doesn't mean we liked supporting bad guys.
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