Navy Pride
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2005
- Messages
- 39,883
- Reaction score
- 3,070
- Location
- Pacific NW
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Very Conservative
vergiss said:I don't care about what other people did or didn't do. I want to know if you could simply convert to the "gay lifestyle"?
I already asked him this. He conveniently ignored it.
Navy Pride said:A. Its being done every day.........The Colonel I mentioned proves it.......
B. What does that have to do with anal sex?
Gandhi>Bush said:What post did you mention this at? Did have a link? I'd like to read it.
Because what you said about anal sex could be applied to oral sex:
I am implying that the anus is a very dirty place for someone to put his penis(I suppose that depends on your partner, ehh sport?) and you are not able to procreate by doing that(No babies involved in oral sex)........
I am implying that the vagina in the act of sexual intercourse is the normal way to procreate............. (same)
Oral sex does not create a child(not that people engage in oral sex looking to have a baby). The same is said of anal sex. Sex with a condon does not create a child. The same is said of anal sex.
Do you see?
Navy Pride said:1. It matters not if you believe it but I live here in the Pacific NW and there are a couple of other posters from here that can back me up.........I am sure if you google search on the subject you will find other cases too.......
2. I believe most people would consider oral sex foreplay or a prelude to Sexual Intercourse........With Gays anal intercourse is the main event..........
Navy Pride said:1. It matters not if you believe it but I live here in the Pacific NW and there are a couple of other posters from here that can back me up.........I am sure if you google search on the subject you will find other cases too.......
2. I believe most people would consider oral sex foreplay or a prelude to Sexual Intercourse...........With Gays anal intercourse is the main event..........
nkgupta80 said:amyways for some heterosexuals, anal is a part in their sexual intercourse as well... whats ur point.
Navy Pride said:The fact is Gays want to be considered a minority like Hispanics and African Americans............No one knows for sure if they are born that way or not but there are documented cases of people changing both ways........
It is also a fact that African Americans and Hispanics can not change.......Gays can never accept the fact that they can change because if they did that would throw out all their so called minority status so they will always deny it.....
jallman said:We arent all trying to dick little boys .
Youve Got To Be Kidding! said:Gays or the Catholic Church?
js416256 said:I think that whole "they can change" argument really isn't plausible because of the fact that many of the groups who believe and support the idea that homosexuality is more or less a mental delusion that can be reversible really have no scientific claim except flimsy claims like "they haven't found the gay gene yet". These groups could actually conduct scientific research and study I don't know genetics and dare I say it, evolution and show through their research that homosexuality has no real biological basis and is purely a psychological defect. But until then shocking a man's penis with electrodes until he stops having erections towards men will not be a logical argument to discredit the irreversibility of homosexuality.
It was said in a recent post that due to the fact that African Americans can't change their race this gives them permanent minority status. But when you actually look back on the history of the African American's struggle to gain equal rights you will see many similarities to the debate over the origins of homosexuality. For many years (and still even today) people believed that the blacks were inferior which contributed to the whole "nature vs. nurture" dispute we think of today when debating the origins of homosexuality. But as the 20th century progressed advancements in genetics helped to show that the blacks were not inferior. So if we try to learn from our history (which we rarely ever do) we can clearly see that trying to make a claim about the traits a group of people based on illogical evidence is not really anwsering the question. Like I've said in previous posts science is the only way we can prove or disprove homosexuality, the origins will not be found through the bible, circumstantial evidence, or these pseudo-conversion therapies.
Another source that accepts that homosexuality is permanent (but immoral), is the Catholic Church. I recently found out when I was reading the Vatican's website that they realize homosexuality is permanent and so homosexuals must remain celibate and bisexuals must supress their urges for men and only be with women.
So saying homosexuals can change is a very limited view because I think when you deal with such a complex topic as this you need to really put yourself in their shoes. If one justs imagines the social stigma, the ostracism, the "so-called religious damnation", and the rest of the baggage that comes from being gay people can be scared into doing many things. You can claim that gays can change but when you are being told that your life will be bleak and tragic if you be yourself and you can look foward to an afterlife of torture and unhapiness you'd be suprised how fear can manifest itself.
(Hopefully someone will respond to this post...)
jallman said:That was probably the most objective argument I have read so far. If I may, I would like to add one more thing...it doesnt matter whether homosexuality is a product of genetics or the environment. It is simply a manifestation in some people and not in others. It just is. All these arguments against it are simply based on religious perception (or misconception) and not reason. Further, do the fundies ever stop to think that there are a lot of well adjusted gay men and women out there who dont want to change?
js416256 said:Well if homosexuality was proven to be completely a product of the enviorment then what would that mean- homosexuality is purely a psychological defect and would most likely be treated like you would treat anxiety or depression. In addition to this it wouldn't make sense to give homosexuals equal protections under the law if homosexuality wasn't a genetic trait. But if homosexuality had a proven biochemical derivation then the phrase "i'm born gay" would be completely true. So to just refer to homosexuality as an inclination that manifests in some people but not others really doesn't fufill the question about the origins of homosexuality and their recognition as a protected minority group.
js416256 said:While I doubt that homosexuality is a psychological disorder, scientific evidence is needed to ever foster social change. I agree that everyone should have equal protections under the law but what you are calling for is drastic social change and many people believe in the abberance of homosexuality and would object to any type social change without justified scientific evidence. Even in Theoretical America where religion has no place in politics some form of scientific evidence would be needed for homosexuality to be fully accepted. But despite this the extreme amounts of variation in homosexuals all around the world really disproves the theory that homosexuality is a mental disorder. Usually when a trait is recurring through each generation all around the world and even in different species genetics is usually the most probable explanation.
Navy Pride said:A. Its being done every day.........The Colonel I mentioned proves it.......
B. What does that have to do with anal sex?
vergiss said:B: As you say, the penis is designed for the vagina - therefore, not for the anus or mouth. Plus, it's often an "out" hole, as you put it. How do you feel having your dick in the same hole that vomit comes out of?
cnredd said:ummmm....Is this "before" or "after"?:doh
vergiss said:Well... what with the gag reflex and all...
Are you saying that the only reason to have sex is to make a baby? Please be very specific in your response, I do not want to misunderstand your position(s).Navy Pride said:...I am implying that the vagina in the act of sexual intercourse is the normal way to procreate.............
I don't know how to make it any clearer to you without getting to graphic........
jallman said:Are you sure you arent from one of the big square states in the middle? No we dont want minority status, we want inclusion and equality. Not separate but equal (we saw that didnt work in the South during segregation) but true equality. We want our choice of partners to be recognized by civil union. I dont want to have to pay a lawyer to draw up documents to insure my partner gains all of my real property when I die...because for heterosexual couples, it is an assumption of the law that this will happen upon the death of one spouse. We want the right to raise children without fear that they can be taken from us because some Fundy thinks we cant be good parents. We want to be assured that our jobs cannot be taken from us because a super conservative board decides it doesnt want a gay or lesbian working in its corporation. Thats the so called Gay Agenda.
Unfortunately, I cant blame you for your perceptions because there is a bad element to our community. You see Pride Marches where a bunch of half nude porn stars on a pink float is the main attraction. Just try to understand that we arent all limp wristed screaming tinkerbells bent on creating a pink mafia. We arent all trying to dick little boys through bathroom walls and we arent all skulking predators in the dark alleys outside of gay bars. Hell, I am even scared of those people...but unfortunately thats all you ever get to hear about because of a sensationalist media that is more concerned about ratings than objectively showing what gay life is really like as a norm.
Navy Pride said:And you should have equal rights regardless of your sexual preference and I am all for that...........I do draw the line at marriage......I think what you want can be accomplished with Civil Unions.........I think it would be very wrong to change the definition of marriage............
You sound exactly like a couple of gay friends I have..........They are angry about how a small minority of gays portray the gay community..They want to live their lives in peace and harmony just like any other American..........I wish you luck and God speed in that endeavor............
My personal feelings are taught to me through my Roman Catholic faith......I can not condone Gay sex because I believe it is a mortal sin just like any
other sin................We are taught to love the sinner and hate the sin regardless whether the sin is committed by a gay or straight man..........
I really feel that you and I think alike in a lot of ways.......
Take care
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