A Democratic Republic or Athoritarianism? (1 Viewer)

[uptower]

Imaginary TDS?

Yes imaginary. However they may react there are real issues at the oot of the problem, not just some vague anger at trump being trump. People are inflamed over what he does and says; his policies and posture. He has earned the peoples' ire.

The fact that it so bad people riot in the streets is evidence it is real. Obama did not elicit the same response no matter how hated he was on the right. For them they knew deep down it was mostly in their heads and they could just wait for the next rigged election to steal votes from minorities and the poor. for liberals and progressives, Trump is a genuine threat to freedom and their way of life.

 

[uptower]

What "criminality" is he "normalizing"?

By pardoning criminals for the same kinds of things he does in office and has done through his business career - tax evasion, bribery, extortion, perjury - he is trying to send a message to his people it's okay and pave the road to do more of it in future.

 

[jmotivator]

By pardoning criminals for the same kinds of things he does in office and has done through his business career - tax evasion, bribery, extortion, perjury - he is trying to send a message to his people it's okay and pave the road to do more of it in future.

Again, you aren't going to get anywhere with this utter nonsense. What criminal acts does Trump pardon that he is guilty of?

 

[uptower]

Again, you aren't going to get anywhere with this utter nonsense. What criminal acts does Trump pardon that he is guilty of?

Well, you may want to split hairs and separate those he has been convicted of from those we merely know about. Whatever, this isn't a court.

We know he has committed fraud, tax evasion, broken the emoluments clause, obstructed justice and tampered with witnesses. All these are a matter of record from his own sleazy 'foundation' to the trials of surrogates to the Mueller report or his transcripts. We suspect he has committed sexual assault, perjury, more fraud, colluded with the Russians to affect the election (and know he did it with Ukraine through his extortion racket);

Among the people he pardoned last week all these crimes feature in one form or another.

 

[jmotivator]

Well, you may want to split hairs and separate those he has been convicted of from those we merely know about. Whatever, this isn't a court.

We know he has committed fraud, tax evasion, broken the emoluments clause, obstructed justice and tampered with witnesses. All these are a matter of record from his own sleazy 'foundation' to the trials of surrogates to the Mueller report or his transcripts. We suspect he has committed sexual assault, perjury, more fraud, colluded with the Russians to affect the election (and know he did it with Ukraine through his extortion racket);

Among the people he pardoned last week all these crimes feature in one form or another.

HAHAHA!! Stating what crimes Trump has committed isn't splitting hairs. Again, you are using begging the question fallacy. The world doesn't run on your delusional fears of what you think Trump has done. If you want to argue any point you should consider what you can prove and discard the rest as unhealthy products of your own hatred.

By the way, if you had bothered to read the article you posted you would realize that most of those granted clemency had already served their full sentence, and those who hadn't don't fit your narrative. I mean, sure, you can try to spin the release of Crystal Munoz from prison as a negative if you want... but that probably isn't the narrative you are looking for.

 

[Luther]

Which do you support:

Today it is clear we are living in a new normal. The current Senators, under the leadership of McConnell has demonstrated that one person can have a major impact on our form of government. There is no doubt that Authoritarianism is now, with no thanks to 51 Senators, a new form of governance, i.e. Trumpism.

IMO, Trumpism is akin to fascism, and a reader with an open mind and who has watched the behavior of Trump and McConnell will see much similarity to these 14 points:

14 signs of fascism - Google Search

Democratic Republic?

I thought we were just a Republic with a constitution?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Democratic Republic?

I thought we were just a Republic with a constitution?

You thought wrong. We are a democratic republic. A republic is a nation where representatives create the laws, and the members of the legislatures - Federal, States and local governments - are elected by a popular vote of We the People.

Those who fear democracy, established the BIG LIE that we are a Constitutional Republic. Which is a lie by omission.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I am flabbergasted that you are doing the typical denial fallacies that all leftist do?

who support government take over of healthcare? Democrats.
Who supports redistribution policies that have failed over and over again? democrats.
who support banning of constitution right to protect yourself? democrats. gun ban laws have to constantly be struck down by courts.
bloomberg himself attempted several unconstitutional laws to tell people what they could and couldn't eat or drink.
obama put huge standards of motor vehicles to make MPG requirements that were not possible. THis has cause a surge in car prices.

no matter how much you want to ignore facts they don't go away.

S1: The PPACA did not take over healthcare.
S2: Huh? Redistribution policies, such as the GOP's Tax Fraud, or the GOP's Gerrymandering?
S3: Gun control has never required that guns be taken from sober, sane and law abiding citizens!
S4: Bloomberg has been a Republican, and Independent and now running as a Democrat.
S5: Obama was a visionary, trump is a reactionary. Trump is opposed to Climate Change, and a big supporter of pollution.

 

[uptower]

HAHAHA!! Stating what crimes Trump has committed isn't splitting hairs. Again, you are using begging the question fallacy. The world doesn't run on your delusional fears of what you think Trump has done. If you want to argue any point you should consider what you can prove and discard the rest as unhealthy products of your own hatred.

By the way, if you had bothered to read the article you posted you would realize that most of those granted clemency had already served their full sentence, and those who hadn't don't fit your narrative. I mean, sure, you can try to spin the release of Crystal Munoz from prison as a negative if you want... but that probably isn't the narrative you are looking for.

Yup read it, guess you and I see different things. The fact is most of them committed what we can safely call 'Trump Crimes'. Those are crimes he has been accused of, investigated for, found guilty of and fined for or been recorded as a co-conspirator.

Read the bits in bold. This isn't about the topic at all is it? Who's really consumed by 'unhealthy anger and 'hatred' here?

 

[Feelthebern2020]

Trumpism is racism

 

[Luther]

You thought wrong. We are a democratic republic. A republic is a nation where representatives create the laws, and the members of the legislatures - Federal, States and local governments - are elected by a popular vote of We the People.

Those who fear democracy, established the BIG LIE that we are a Constitutional Republic. Which is a lie by omission.

You thought wrong

Not so sure about that

A republic is a nation where representatives create the laws, and the members of the legislatures

Yep

Federal

, States and local governments - are elected by a popular vote of We the People.

Which is already defined in the definition of a Republic

States and local governments - are elected by a popular vote of We the People

And hence we were talking about what kind of Federal Gov we have(Rolling eyes)

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

++ Correct. A lousy roll out and it’s demonization made it unpopular.

What's not to demonize? The so called Affordable Healthcare, instead of making health insurance cheaper, made it prohibitively expensice. It was not demonization that made obamacare unpopular. It was the utter arrogant stupidity of the assholes who proposed the bill and voted it into law that made it unpopular.

As noted, the GOP in general tends to oppose government programs that don’t involve jailing people at home or

What in the blazes are you talking about?

blowing them up overseas, admittedly an oversimplification.

It was Obama who targeted an American citizen overseas with a drone

For a version of that notion, however look up what Reagan has to say about Medicare (in 1960, I believe).

I don't really give a **** what Reagan had to say about Medicare in the 1960s. I only care what he had to say as a presidential candidate or president elect.

++ And approval of the ACA has grown in recent years, so the prospects of both parties agreeing on something similar but presumably better are increased.

And you get that from the same pollsters who assured you that Hillary Clinton was going to be elected president in 2016? Everyone I personally know on either side of the political coin hates the A.C.A. And it's not personal. Nobody likes prohibitively expensive health insurance. And if you think the ACA is more popular, why are your comrades on the left screaming for "medicare for all"?

Look, the bottom line is that Obama’s quote (was it originally MLK?) about the “arc of history” bending towards more justice (I might have said “zig-zags” rather than bend).

Well, when you can figure out who actually said it, come back and try to make your point.

++ As noted just above, the last one hundred plus years have seen progressive legislation take hold in the US, moderated by conservative changes, suggestion and rollbacks, from anti-trust to the New Deal to LBJ to Nixon signing EPA legislation to the ACA. (The same has happened in other developed and some lesser developed countries.) The great conservative Willian F Buckley humorously suggested that his role was to stand athwart the path of history yelling “Stop!”

Nice try, however the establishment republican party has never been truly conservative, and that goes for William F. Buckley as well. One of the secrets to Trump's success is that he appeals to real conservatives who are weary of the republican party morphing into "librul-lite".

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Yes imaginary. However they may react there are real issues at the oot of the problem, not just some vague anger at trump being trump. People are inflamed over what he does and says; his policies and posture. He has earned the peoples' ire.

The fact that it so bad people riot in the streets is evidence it is real. Obama did not elicit the same response no matter how hated he was on the right. For them they knew deep down it was mostly in their heads and they could just wait for the next rigged election to steal votes from minorities and the poor. for liberals and progressives, Trump is a genuine threat to freedom and their way of life.

Baloney. Conservatives did not riot in the streets during Obama, because as disappointed as they were in the results of the 2008 and 202 elections, they accepted the results. There was not a declared resistance movement the day he was inaugerated. The left started rioting on election nite 2016. It was not Trump's rhetoric that inflamed them. They just did not want to accept defeat.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Well, you may want to split hairs and separate those he has been convicted of from those we merely know about. Whatever, this isn't a court.

We know he has committed fraud, tax evasion, broken the emoluments clause, obstructed justice and tampered with witnesses. All these are a matter of record from his own sleazy 'foundation' to the trials of surrogates to the Mueller report or his transcripts. We suspect he has committed sexual assault, perjury, more fraud, colluded with the Russians to affect the election (and know he did it with Ukraine through his extortion racket);

That is one of the more nonsensical posts I have ever seen. You are just taking left wing rhetoric and declaring it as fact. No objective reader is going to take you seriously.

Among the people he pardoned last week all these crimes feature in one form or another.

What's your point? Obama and Bill Clinton were much more controverisal in their pardons. Clinton for instance pardoned 16 non-repentant FALN terrorists, just to assist his wife the hildabeast in her New York Senate campaign in regards to the hispanic vote.

 

[Perotista]

Which do you support:

Today it is clear we are living in a new normal. The current Senators, under the leadership of McConnell has demonstrated that one person can have a major impact on our form of government. There is no doubt that Authoritarianism is now, with no thanks to 51 Senators, a new form of governance, i.e. Trumpism.

IMO, Trumpism is akin to fascism, and a reader with an open mind and who has watched the behavior of Trump and McConnell will see much similarity to these 14 points:

14 signs of fascism - Google Search

You do remember that many Republicans were saying basically the same thing about Obama. His using his pen and phone, the EO to bypass congress completely. His Iran deal which Obama refused to let congress ratify as stated in the Constitution. Obama going to war against Libya with no congressional approval and so on.

The problem isn't Trump nor Obama. It's congress itself. Over the decades congress has ceded its Constitutional powers to the administration and to other government agencies. The party in congress which is the same as the president might as well be part of the administration than of the institution of congress. They try to give the president of their party more power and everything he wants.

This has been going on for decades. Blame Trump, blame Obama, blame G.W. Bush or Bill Clinton or whoever. But the fact remains congress has been more than willing to cede their own powers and rights to the president, as long as that president is of the same party. Sure, Democrats holler up a storm today with Trump, Republicans did the same with Obama. Both equated the president as becoming a dictator and a tyrant.

The thing is by ceding these powers, those in congress don't have to make hard decisions. Decisions that might make voters angry at them and expel them from congress. This is congress's own doings. Only when a party is out of power, doesn't hold the presidency, do they try to regain some of their original powers and cry about dictators and tyrants. But as soon as their party gains the presidency, congress critters of that same party try to give the president, the administration more and more power.

If we end up with a dictator as president, one can only blame the congress critters who gave the powers once theirs, to the president. You can bet the farm if a Democrats wins in November, becomes president, Democratic members of congress will try to give that president more and more of their powers and to give that president everything he wants. Mark my word on that.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Trumpism is racism

The left's race baiting is racism.

 

[Jay59]

I think on the list provided Trump misses three points: Obsession with security, religion and military worship. These he just plays lip service to.

View attachment 67273505

However the Republican Party platform fits the entire list to a T. I think they're a little blindsided by this incompetent populist grabbing control of the party's easily led base, but they probably want to hold on till a more competent nationalist/authoritarian from their own ranks comes up and can actually lead as well, can actually hide some of his craziness and gain broader appeal. Then the world is in trouble.

That isn't Republican. That's Democrats. Identification of scapegoats, control of the mass media, rampant cronyism and corruption. Some things are mirror images, hostility to religion and government intertwined, vilification of the military, intellectual elitism, rampant claims of racisim, sexism, homophobia, etc. Add use of police for political purposes and staging violence at rallies of conservative functions.

Huxley said that fascism would come to America wrapped in the flag and carrying a Bible. He's 70 years out of date, but he had the right idea. In the current milieu, it came wrapped in a claim of tolerance and called itself anti-fascist. Now they want to change the way we do elections.

 

[Wry Catcher]

What's not to demonize? The so called Affordable Healthcare, instead of making health insurance cheaper, made it prohibitively expensice. It was not demonization that made obamacare unpopular. It was the utter arrogant stupidity of the assholes who proposed the bill and voted it into law that made it unpopular.






It was Obama who targeted an American citizen overseas with a drone



I don't really give a **** what Reagan had to say about Medicare in the 1960s. I only care what he had to say as a presidential candidate or president elect.



And you get that from the same pollsters who assured you that Hillary Clinton was going to be elected president in 2016? Everyone I personally know on either side of the political coin hates the A.C.A. And it's not personal. Nobody likes prohibitively expensive health insurance. And if you think the ACA is more popular, why are your comrades on the left screaming for "medicare for all"?



Well, when you can figure out who actually said it, come back and try to make your point.



Nice try, however the establishment republican party has never been truly conservative, and that goes for William F. Buckley as well. One of the secrets to Trump's success is that he appeals to real conservatives who are weary of the republican party morphing into "librul-lite".

Wow, such a rant. I will only touch one aspect of this ill thought out speech, and that is in this link on Obamacare and the rising cost.

Trump's Five Big Changes To Obamacare : Shots - Health News : NPR

This short link describes how trump behaves, and anyone who doubts he is a growing despot has been mislead.

 

[uptower]

That is one of the more nonsensical posts I have ever seen. You are just taking left wing rhetoric and declaring it as fact. No objective reader is going to take you seriously.

We've all been watching this unfold real-time for the past three years. Entire books have been written on the matter and countless articles. There is a world that exists outside internet forums and most people are aware Trump is deeply corrupt.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Wow, such a rant. I will only touch one aspect of this ill thought out speech, and that is in this link on Obamacare and the rising cost.

Trump's Five Big Changes To Obamacare : Shots - Health News : NPR

This short link describes how trump behaves, and anyone who doubts he is a growing despot has been mislead.

God bless Trump for every step he has taken on the piecemeal approach. The majority of Americans are against Obamacare. You should have learned that from the 2010 and 2014 elections. How exactly does that in your mind make him a despot? Every step he has taken is legal. I would rather see the entire bill repealed in one fell swoop, however if the republicans lack the gonads to follow through on what they promised and campaigned on for seven years, I'll take the piecemeal method. The ACA was rammed through on a party line vote against the will of the majority of Americans. That's why the democrats took such a hit in the 2010 midterms, not only in the house of representatives, but the state legislative elections as well. And your article is dishonest in regards to it's claim that health insurance went up as a result of the repeal of the individual mandate. The cost of healthcare has risen every year since it was signed into law. What you don't seem to understand is that health insurance under Obamacare has never been competitive. Competition is not compatible with a captive customer base.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

We've all been watching this unfold real-time for the past three years. Entire books have been written on the matter and countless articles. There is a world that exists outside internet forums and most people are aware Trump is deeply corrupt.

Sounds like TDS.

 

[Lane65]

Which do you support:

Today it is clear we are living in a new normal. The current Senators, under the leadership of McConnell has demonstrated that one person can have a major impact on our form of government. There is no doubt that Authoritarianism is now, with no thanks to 51 Senators, a new form of governance, i.e. Trumpism.

IMO, Trumpism is akin to fascism, and a reader with an open mind and who has watched the behavior of Trump and McConnell will see much similarity to these 14 points:

14 signs of fascism - Google Search

We have been living in an Oligarchy since the Civil War. Prior to this businesses were regulated where a corporation was limited to a specific number of years, such as 10, and it solely served a *public* use such as electricity, railroad, dams, etc. and then was returned to the public when it expired. Small business were restricted to the point they took ALL the risks (no government bailouts/bankruptcies), no company was able to not only be in the realm of politics by not allowing any funding to or political affiliation of but also restricted owners to the point they could not own any shares in another company and their charter would be revoked for any malfeasance.

Sadly, after the civil war, a case, Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad (1886) where a judges clerk said "Corporations were persons" which had nothing to do with the actual case, changed the course of what our founders fought for. Corporations of course ran with it and so we now have a corporate system run amok because of this!

Amazing what a demoralized country after a long war can do to a country with one case! The people are too apathetic to change it today so I see no change nor a revolution anytime soon (

 

[Lane65]

democrats are the biggest authoritarianist there are.
the only cult is the one going on with democrats at this point in time.

they want to control your healthcare
control where you live
control how much money you can have
control what you eat
control what you can drive
control how you can protect yourself.

you leftist and your silly claims amuse me.

And I see ZERO difference with Republican's in Office!!

They are now telling adults, those over 18, they can't smoke but vote, buy a house, car, and give them a weapon to go overseas and kill people! Are you an ADULT at 18 or 21?!?!? Interesting that Reagan did the same when I was 19 and changed the drinking law while I was serving in the military. I was armed with a M16 to kill a human being but couldn't go to a bar and have a darn drink! They were also against contraception but abortion too! Sorry but that party became so darn confusing I left it! I am not a Democrat either because they are two parties who want to CONTROL US, either in the same way or different ways depending on which way the wind blows (those who stuff their pockets with the most cash).

 

[uptower]

Sounds like TDS.

Personal attacks instead of facing the issues. Don't waste our time.

 

[ludin]

And I see ZERO difference with Republican's in Office!!

They are now telling adults, those over 18, they can't smoke but vote, buy a house, car, and give them a weapon to go overseas and kill people! Are you an ADULT at 18 or 21?!?!? Interesting that Reagan did the same when I was 19 and changed the drinking law while I was serving in the military. I was armed with a M16 to kill a human being but couldn't go to a bar and have a darn drink! They were also against contraception but abortion too! Sorry but that party became so darn confusing I left it! I am not a Democrat either because they are two parties who want to CONTROL US, either in the same way or different ways depending on which way the wind blows (those who stuff their pockets with the most cash).

States set the drinking age not the federal government. there area few democrat states that have the same laws.
so your point is in valid.