A colonel fired by Trump offered to prosecute Michael Flynn by court-martial for calling for a military coup in the US

[Tangmo]

The only lie is that you actually served in the military but then that has been known for a long time now.

If you don't like your nonsense being called out you could always stop making up stories.

The Big Lie of the Extremist Right.

It's been around for a long time.

So a lot of ducks have been blown out of the water along the way.

Because my truth continues to prevail.

 

[Tangmo]

Roaming bomb thrower vs tangmo babble who insults volunteer forces and enlisted personel, I think you might be on the losing end of this, especially with all the posts trying to call a volunteer fighting force as republicans with trucks.

Bomb thrower.

 

[braindrain]

The Big Lie of the Extremist Right.

It's been around for a long time.

So a lot of ducks have been blown out of the water along the way.

Because my truth continues to prevail.

You have no truth only lies and tangmobable.

 

[braindrain]

You realize that is not a US service members right?

Who we we kidding. You have no idea. You never served a day in your life.

 

[ouch]

It's time for a short intermission that relates to the op.

MSN

According to a senior defense official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe internal deliberations, “one factor that was most likely considered in this case was the speed with which General Flynn walked back his comments and the decisiveness and the clarity with which he did it.”

Duh! Of course he walked it back! It was in lickety split that he got plenty of flack about it! He knew that he just crapped in his nest - more seriously, he crapped in the military's/government's nest. You mean to tell me that a senior defense official evaluated the situation being one that, of all people, Flynn, quickly walked it back??? Does anyone with a brain not understand that to say it is already what one is thinking??

According to Mark Nevitt, a former military lawyer who teaches law at Syracuse University, most of the instances in which the military had used the UCMJ to hold retirees accountable have had a “clear military nexus,” for example when an incident occurs on a military base or involves a military victim.

Oh, I see - it doesn't count when a treasonous act by a retired General is agreed to on a public stage and not directed to any other military personnel. Got it.

Moreover, the military’s ability to try retirees is being challenged in federal courts in a trio of cases, another factor that may heighten Pentagon wariness.

Well, we sure don't want to create challenges to military legal eagles in federal cases. Just go with the flow - got it!

 

[Tangmo]

You realize that is not a US service members right?

Who we we kidding. You have no idea. You never served a day in your life.

You have no truth only lies and tangmobable.

Groundhog Day.

Your guys each day is Groundhog Day.

Each post you say the same thingys. Every post is the same same.

It's Rightwing Lifer NCO The Big Lie Groundhog Day.

The Whitewing Groundhog Day Big Lie.

You say the same thing, I say the same reply. (Monotonous innit, at least to almost any reasonable person.)

All at your initiative poking your heads up and out of the other's hole.

Groundhog Day indeed.

Hogs for short.

 

[beerftw]

Bomb thrower.

cadet

 

[beerftw]

He was wrong to wear his uniform, yes, yet I published the valor vigilante video because the other four instances of the abuse of veterans were informative and salient.

And that you don't pay any mind to however, give a pass on and ignore.

It doesn't suit Your Big Rightwing Extremist Lie.

Indeed Trump and his militias are gearing up to come at us again in Trump himself promising his return this summer. Biden will be gone etc etc. So it's on you guys to clear the decks of opposition wherever it exists. All of you inclusively.

What is this tangmo babble about trump and his militias?

Fyi him wearing a uniform was only improper because it was an active combat uniform, he is fully authorized to wear dress uniform for such occasions per ar 670-1

 

[beerftw]

Groundhog Day.

Your guys each day is Groundhog Day.

Each post you say the same thingys. Every post is the same same.

It's Rightwing Lifer NCO The Big Lie Groundhog Day.

The Whitewing Groundhog Day Big Lie.

You say the same thing, I say the same reply. (Monotonous innit, at least to almost any reasonable person.)

All at your initiative poking your heads up and out of the other's hole.

Groundhog Day indeed.

Hogs for short.

hmmm

 

[Tangmo]

Each post is the same thingy.

The Big Lie.

In whatever its manifestation of the moment.

Over years with no end.

Trump meanwhile says those who served and sacrificed are "saps and suckers." Neither of you are offended by it whether it's John McCain or the SEAL war criminal Gallagher, Capt. Crozier and COVID or all of Trump's "saps and suckers" who served and sacrificed. That's just not your Extremist Rightwing Cause against democracy.

 

[ouch]

Trump meanwhile says those who served and sacrificed are "saps and suckers."

Makes one wonder if (S/I/T) Trump ever called (S/I/T) Flynn to his face a sap or sucker or even remotely referred to others that (S/I/T) Flynn was a sap or sucker. Of course, we both know the answer to that one. Those who plants their head strongly up (S/I/T) Trump's rump are in line for one of his subservient medals. Now someone please hand (S/I/T) Flynn the shampoo bottle so that he may scrub that brown stuff out of his hair.

 

[Tangmo]

Makes one wonder if (S/I/T) Trump ever called (S/I/T) Flynn to his face a sap or sucker or even remotely referred to others that (S/I/T) Flynn was a sap or sucker. Of course, we both know the answer to that one. Those who plants their head strongly up (S/I/T) Trump's rump are in line for one of his subservient medals. Now someone please hand (S/I/T) Flynn the shampoo bottle so that he may scrub that brown stuff out of his hair.

No one over there on the fascist right will discuss it.

Or even acknowledge it.

And certainly never condemn it.

Traitor Michael Flynn says Myanmar-like coup ‘should happen’ in US​

That's because they're all in the same boat.

Rowers all.

 

[Oozlefinch]

A strong salute to you Army Lt. Col. Vindman. If only such proposed actions would come true.

MSN

View attachment 67335909

• Yevgeny Vindman offered to court-martial Michael Flynn over his apparent call for a military coup.
• Flynn suggested over the weekend that a Myanmar-style military coup "should happen here."
• Vindman, a member of the US Army's legal arm, said the remarks were "seditious."

There is only one problem here, and it is a huge problem.

Flynn retired from the Army in 2014. So unless this had happened before he had retired (which it did not), he could not be "Court Martialed" for it.

It does not matter how "seditious" this or anything else is. Having already retired, he could not be "Court Martialed" unless it is directely relating to something that directly had to do with his prior military service.

In other words, ultimately this is just more "junk news".

 

[Oozlefinch]

Umm if he offered to prosecute flynn that would be that absolute opposite of justice, vindman prosecuting flynn would be equal the the grand kleagle of the kkk offering to prosecute a black man.

Plus, that is simply not how the UCMJ and MCM work.

First, it would have to be a violation that either deals directly with his prior military service, or something that could strongly be connected between the two.

Secondly, it is not like he could even "volunteer" for this. It would have to be decided which military base takes precedence for the prosecution. Then they would pick a Persecutor from their local JAG staff. As well as the Officers who would make up the board for the Court Martial.

Plus, it would first have to pass the Article 32 hearing. This is the equivalent of a "Grand Jury", which determines if the charges are even valid, and there is a legal reason to bring back an Officer from retirement for trial in the first place.

Simple glance, this would never have passed that. So not only could a Court Martial have never happened, even if it had it would have been quickly tossed out on appeal. And even more funny, as having once been convicted "Double Jeopardy" would prevent any more attempts.

This to me sounds like complete garbage, made up by somebody that knows absolutely nothing of the military justice system. And also largely believed by others that are equally as ignorant.

 

[Tangmo]

The statement by the lunatic crackpot Michael Flynn is protected by the First Amendment.

This is because there was no imminent or clear or present danger of insurrection or rebellion against the Government of the United States.

Indeed Flynn was at a convention of crazies in rightwingnut Texas who returned afterward to their hotel, got out the voodoo dolls, lit up incense and did their stupid and demented stuff that did not include insurrection or rebellion. The next morning they got up to take taxis to the airport and flew off in all directions and states to their nest or cave home.

Pentagon will not prosecute Flynn for the same reason, ie, there was no clear or present danger of an imminent action to overthrow. Nor will Pentagon investigate or inquire whether it might want to court martial the madman Flynn under the UCMJ.

Indeed, while Flynn's remark was wild and idiotic it is protected under the 1A. And given the screwball Flynn's nutso remark did not violate the Constitution, it would not violate his oath under it or in respect of the UCMJ. For instance, there was no violation of the chain of command, to cite but one actual nothingness of it.

Rhetorically we can say Flynn is a traitor yet we know under the definition specified in the Constitution he is not. Which also means no one in the USA is or could be a traitor. So the literal meaning of traitor in the Constitution is useless in this instance. We who use the word traitor rather apply it rhetorically and as a matter of our opinion based on our observation or experience rather than in a literal Constitutional way.

Of interest are the charges being developed by federal prosecutors against the insurrectionists who invaded the Capitol January 6th in their miserably failed attempt to stop the electoral college count by the joint session of the Congress of the United States. And of the exact convictions that would result from successful trials against 'em, to include exact charges they may be acquitted of.

After all, Al Capone ordered the murder of dozens of people yet he went to prison for tax fraud. I'm thinking Trump on this one too. Indeed my interest is justice rather than simply dismissing what the traitor Flynn said as not literally prosecutable for his treason with his partner Trump. Which is why FBI nailed Flynn for lying to 'em.

 

[Tangmo]

Flynn is the number 2 sensitive topic among the PutinTrumpRowers, Trump himself being the first and foremost of course.

While they never mention Putin.

The Rowers stopped praising Putin as the strong leader right before Trump descended the escalator in Faulty Tower in 2015. Not a peep about Putin the "chessmaster" by 'em since. Only denials no one accepts.

 

[Tangmo]

Retired USMC Gunnery Sergeant Dinger was accused of indecent acts, attempting to produce child pornography, possessing child pornography and making an indecent visual recording. The alleged offenses all occurred after GySgt Dinger officially retired from the Marine Corps. Nevertheless, the Marine Corps preferred and referred court-martial charges against GySgt Dinger.

Can a retired service member be court-martialed?​

Blog, Military Law Blog

Yes.

The Navy-Marine Court of Criminal Appeals (NMCCA) in United States v. Dinger recently held that a retired servicemember can face a court-martial for offenses committed after retirement. The Marine Corps preferred and referred court-martial charges against GySgt Dinger. The military judge sentenced GySgt Dinger to nine years confinement and a dishonorable discharge.

The case was appealed to the NMCCA and the appellate court specifically held that under Article 2(a) of the UCMJ, GySgt Dinger was subject to the UCMJ when he committed the offenses. A retiree can still wear a uniform and still receives pay. The NMCCA also stated that Congress’ intent to keep retirees subject to the UCMJ was demonstrated when several retirees from different services were recalled to duty for court-martial during both Iraq wars. The NMCCA also considered whether the court-martial had the authority to issue a dishonorable discharge for GySgt Dinger who had already retired. The NMCCA held that the court-martial did have this authority. This decision is important for those who believe they become a civilian following retirement and are no longer subject to the UCMJ. Don’t make that mistake.

Can a retired service member be court-martialed? - William E, Cassara

Yes. The Navy-Marine Court of Criminal Appeals (NMCCA) in United States v. Dinger recently held that a retired servicemember can face a court-martial for

courtmartial.com

It would be a huge mistake and a wrong post to make to the thread and topic.

Flynn can be court martialed if he meets the criteria of an imminent, clear and present danger to overthrow the Government of the United States or if he were to engage in child pornography or if he robbed a bank and so on. Being retired from the armed forces does not exempt one from the civilian laws as transmitted via the UCMJ in military terms.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Retired USMC Gunnery Sergeant Dinger was accused of indecent acts, attempting to produce child pornography, possessing child pornography and making an indecent visual recording. The alleged offenses all occurred after GySgt Dinger officially retired from the Marine Corps. Nevertheless, the Marine Corps preferred and referred court-martial charges against GySgt Dinger.

Can a retired service member be court-martialed?​

Blog, Military Law Blog

Yes.

The Navy-Marine Court of Criminal Appeals (NMCCA) in United States v. Dinger recently held that a retired servicemember can face a court-martial for offenses committed after retirement. The Marine Corps preferred and referred court-martial charges against GySgt Dinger. The military judge sentenced GySgt Dinger to nine years confinement and a dishonorable discharge.

The case was appealed to the NMCCA and the appellate court specifically held that under Article 2(a) of the UCMJ, GySgt Dinger was subject to the UCMJ when he committed the offenses. A retiree can still wear a uniform and still receives pay. The NMCCA also stated that Congress’ intent to keep retirees subject to the UCMJ was demonstrated when several retirees from different services were recalled to duty for court-martial during both Iraq wars. The NMCCA also considered whether the court-martial had the authority to issue a dishonorable discharge for GySgt Dinger who had already retired. The NMCCA held that the court-martial did have this authority. This decision is important for those who believe they become a civilian following retirement and are no longer subject to the UCMJ. Don’t make that mistake.

Can a retired service member be court-martialed? - William E, Cassara

Yes. The Navy-Marine Court of Criminal Appeals (NMCCA) in United States v. Dinger recently held that a retired servicemember can face a court-martial for

courtmartial.com

It would be a huge mistake and a wrong post to make to the thread and topic.

Flynn can be court martialed if he meets the criteria of an imminent, clear and present danger to overthrow the Government of the United States or if he were to engage in child pornography or if he robbed a bank and so on. Being retired from the armed forces does not exempt one from the civilian laws as transmitted via the UCMJ in military terms.

And once again, missing some very important facts.

First of all, this involves a Marine. And Marine and Navy Retirement works differently than that of the Army and Air Force. For the first 10 years, they are actually in the "Fleet Marine (or Navy) Reserve". That is actually a non-active Reserve status, akin for the time between the end of an active enlistment and the completion of 8 years of service. And they can be recalled from this status very easily.

And secondly, he also was charged with molesting his daughter and step-daughter, starting in 2011. That is a time he was still in an active reserve status.

Charge I, Specifications 1 and 2, alleging separate instances of indecent conduct committed by the appellant against his daughter and stepdaughter between on or about January 2011 and on or about January 2012.

https://www.jag.navy.mil/courts/documents/archive/2017/DINGER-201600108-PUB.pdf

So if you actually looked into this case, you would see that it falls exactly as I stated. The individual was on active duty at the time of some of the offenses, therefore was recalled for prosecution. Yes he did more after he retired that were added on, but the molestation of his daughter and step-daughter was while he was still serving. Some things were added he did do later, but the original offenses unquestionably was while he was in uniform.

I find it funny that most of the articles about this case gloss over the fact that he was a serial predator, and had been one for years. For some reason they all mention his offenses after retirement, but never mention his offenses while still in. Plus he was working as a contractor on Okinawa when the child porn charges came to light. And while I am not sure what the SOFA is exactly for a civilian contractor in Japan, he should be glad he was given a Court Martial, rather than tried and convicted in a Japanese court.

And even as a civilian, there are cases where civilians actually do have to stand for Court Martial. Most specifically when under martial law. And in this case, I would say that would actually apply, as I am not aware of any US Civilian Court system in Okinawa.

 

[Tangmo]

And once again, missing some very important facts.

First of all, this involves a Marine. And Marine and Navy Retirement works differently than that of the Army and Air Force. For the first 10 years, they are actually in the "Fleet Marine (or Navy) Reserve". That is actually a non-active Reserve status, akin for the time between the end of an active enlistment and the completion of 8 years of service. And they can be recalled from this status very easily.

And secondly, he also was charged with molesting his daughter and step-daughter, starting in 2011. That is a time he was still in an active reserve status.

Charge I, Specifications 1 and 2, alleging separate instances of indecent conduct committed by the appellant against his daughter and stepdaughter between on or about January 2011 and on or about January 2012.

https://www.jag.navy.mil/courts/documents/archive/2017/DINGER-201600108-PUB.pdf

So if you actually looked into this case, you would see that it falls exactly as I stated. The individual was on active duty at the time of some of the offenses, therefore was recalled for prosecution. Yes he did more after he retired that were added on, but the molestation of his daughter and step-daughter was while he was still serving. Some things were added he did do later, but the original offenses unquestionably was while he was in uniform.

I find it funny that most of the articles about this case gloss over the fact that he was a serial predator, and had been one for years. For some reason they all mention his offenses after retirement, but never mention his offenses while still in. Plus he was working as a contractor on Okinawa when the child porn charges came to light. And while I am not sure what the SOFA is exactly for a civilian contractor in Japan, he should be glad he was given a Court Martial, rather than tried and convicted in a Japanese court.

And even as a civilian, there are cases where civilians actually do have to stand for Court Martial. Most specifically when under martial law. And in this case, I would say that would actually apply, as I am not aware of any US Civilian Court system in Okinawa.

Alas, you are correcting the court martial and the appeals court judges.

Only your DP Rightwinger veterans and also active duty nco could do that.

Indeed you "correct" everything you don't like or disagree with.

That is, the Marine Gunnery Sergeant E-7 retired in 2003.

The Navy-Marine Corps appeals court ruled in 2018.


Appellant served on active duty in the United States Marine Corps from July 18, 1983, until October 31, 2003. He transferred to the Fleet Marine Corps Reserve on November 1, 2003, and then to the active duty retired list on August 1, 2013. In June 2015, the Secretary of the Navy authorized the Commander, Marine Corps Installations National Capital Region, to apprehend and confine Appellant and to exercise general court-martial convening authority in Appellant’s case.

Chief Judge STUCKY delivered the opinion of the Court. Appellant, a retiree, was convicted by a general court martial. His approved sentence includes a dishonorable discharge. We granted review to determine whether such a sentence is prohibited for a Marine Corps retiree by 10 U.S.C. § 6332 (2012). We hold that a court-martial is not prohibited from adjudging a punitive discharge in the case of such a retiree.

https://www.mcmilitarylaw.com/documents/us_v_dinger_navy_retirement.pdf

So you keep on correcting the court martial judges and the appeals court military judges too.

After all, you're a lifer nco of the Army and the Marines besides so you know it all, every time and always. In other words, court martial judges and military appeals court judges are nothing to you.

And the name of the university you graduated from is....and your awesomely dominant credentials are.....

Kindly flll in the blanks so we can come over to your side over there on the Extremist Far Out Right.

 

[ouch]

There is only one problem here, and it is a huge problem.

Flynn retired from the Army in 2014. So unless this had happened before he had retired (which it did not), he could not be "Court Martialed" for it.

It does not matter how "seditious" this or anything else is. Having already retired, he could not be "Court Martialed" unless it is directely relating to something that directly had to do with his prior military service.

In other words, ultimately this is just more "junk news".

What I have learned this past week is that someone like (S/I/T) Flynn can be reactivated in order to apply any court martial. When I say (S/I/T) Flynn, I mean anyone who has agreed in public that a military or civilian coup against our government would be ok - and said individual, civilian or otherwise, should be investigated to determine the seriousness of the matter. A matter that should be addressed by the FBI, and, or other law enforcement officials/agencies. (S/I/T) Flynn being a retired US General should never ever agree to a military coup in any shape or form. Because he did and along with his seditious background, he should face a court martial or the FBI. imo

 

[Oozlefinch]

What I have learned this past week is that someone like (S/I/T) Flynn can be reactivated in order to apply any court martial. When I say (S/I/T) Flynn, I mean anyone who has agreed in public that a military or civilian coup against our government would be ok - and said individual, civilian or otherwise, should be investigated to determine the seriousness of the matter. A matter that should be addressed by the FBI, and, or other law enforcement officials/agencies. (S/I/T) Flynn being a retired US General should never ever agree to a military coup in any shape or form. Because he did and along with his seditious background, he should face a court martial or the FBI. imo

True, but unless it involves things that happened while they were on active duty, or when they are overseas and effectively under "Martial Law", this almost never happens.

Because then you get into the tricky question of "Jurisdiction". And there was never any "coup", just more conspiracy theory nonsense that has been spinning around for almost half a decade now.

But even if that was the case, where is any actual evidence? There is none, just more of the same hysteria we have been seeing for years.

 

[ouch]

True, but unless it involves things that happened while they were on active duty, or when they are overseas and effectively under "Martial Law", this almost never happens.

Sure, that's a no brainer when a military personnel on active duty belches the words of a military coup against the United States buys them some serious time with higher command and followed possibly by a court martial.

Because then you get into the tricky question of "Jurisdiction". And there was never any "coup", just more conspiracy theory nonsense that has been spinning around for almost half a decade now.

In these times that we're in now, to play down talk of any coup in the United States can't be taken lightly. Or, at least it shouldn't. Hell, I'll go out on a limb here to suggest that if a poster in DP began using the words military coup as a possible green light against the United States - that might earn them a visit by mr FBI man - as it should.

But even if that was the case, where is any actual evidence? There is none, just more of the same hysteria we have been seeing for years.

The evidence in (S/I/T) Flynn's case is that he's 3 star General who spoke of it in public. So, at the least, he should be investigated by the FBI to see if he's actually conspiring with anyone at all to promote such an unpatriotic dastardly deed by a retired 3 star General. That's why I support a court martial to bust his ass down to a Major or Captain. (Not sure if that much of a reduction in rank is possible, but it should be if not). It's time to make bad actors, misbehaving military actors, stand in the corner for a very long time.

 

[Oozlefinch]

The evidence in (S/I/T) Flynn's case is that he's 3 star General who spoke of it in public. So, at the least, he should be investigated by the FBI to see if he's actually conspiring with anyone at all to promote such an unpatriotic dastardly deed by a retired 3 star General. That's why I support a court martial to bust his ass down to a Major or Captain. (Not sure if that much of a reduction in rank is possible, but it should be if not). It's time to make bad actors, misbehaving military actors, stand in the corner for a very long time.

Tell you what then.

Spend some time actually researching the UCMJ and MCM, then get back to me when you actually understand what you are talking about.

He was out of the military. In this case, even if true it falls under the civilian law as "sedition", not the military one of "Mutiny" or "Coup". Because he no longer had any kind of actual authority to have such a charge.

Once again, this is largely the same rabbit hole of conspiracy theory that I have been seeing for years now. People that know nothing, flying off the handle at ghosts and shadows.

 

[ouch]

Tell you what then.

Spend some time actually researching the UCMJ and MCM, then get back to me when you actually understand what you are talking about.

He was out of the military. In this case, even if true it falls under the civilian law as "sedition", not the military one of "Mutiny" or "Coup". Because he no longer had any kind of actual authority to have such a charge.

Once again, this is largely the same rabbit hole of conspiracy theory that I have been seeing for years now. People that know nothing, flying off the handle at ghosts and shadows.

Well, at this point we'll agree to disagree. No offense, but I trust Col Vindman's knowledge of military law over yours'. Being that we're on the opposite side of viewpoints v facts, that doesn't diminish anyone's military service who actually served.

 

[ouch]

No one over there on the fascist right will discuss it.

Or even acknowledge it.

And certainly never condemn it.

Traitor Michael Flynn says Myanmar-like coup ‘should happen’ in US​

That's because they're all in the same boat.

Rowers all.

The 1/6 assault on our Capitol is, unfortunately, the tip of the spear with what more is probably heading heading our way. (S/I/T) Flynn has helped to tip his hand in front of everyone, where he stands with all of that. If the FBI sweeps this under the rug, like Army command has decided to do, then shame on them as well. Nobody has ever said that properly placed dissent doesn't go without scrapes and bruises. I know that my alert objection to (S/I/T) Flynn's words is properly placed, but now wonder how many members aren't on the same page. Especially after you reminded us here all of (S/I/T) Flynn's rubbing of elbows with foreign adversaries. His seditious calls to overturn this past election. Let alone his closeness to one corrupt former president who summoned the gang of fools and incited the 1/6 assault. Deeply troublesome.