MaggieD
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 43,244
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- Location
- Chicago Area
- Gender
- Female
- Political Leaning
- Moderate
...Just a few weeks shy of his 96th birthday, in need of a walker to move about, cops coming through the door of his retirement home with a Taser and a shotgun...The old man, described by a family member as "wobbly" on his feet, had refused medical attention. The paramedics were called. They brought in the Park Forest police.
First they tased him, but that didn't work. So they fired a shotgun, hitting him in the stomach with a bean-bag round. Wrana was struck with such force that he bled to death internally, according to the Cook County medical examiner...
And after doing some digging, I found there are two versions of events: The police version, and a new picture that raises questions of whether John Wrana was killed unnecessarily.
The Park Forest police version is that on the night of July 26, John Wrana, a resident of the Victory Centre senior living facility, threatened staff and paramedics with a 2-foot-long metal shoehorn and a metal cane. The police statement neglects to mention that the old man also used a walker, at least according to photographs supplied by Grapsas.
"Attempts were made verbally to have the resident comply with demands to drop the articles, to no avail," the police statement reads. "The resident then armed himself with a 12-inch butcher type kitchen knife."
But lawyer Grapsas says that Wrana's family never saw a knife in his room and that staff also told him Wrana didn't have such a knife.
"So where did the knife come from?" Grapsas asked.
The police statement leaves the impression that the staff was under threat, leaving police with no choice other than to shoot him. But according to Maria Oliva, an executive with Pathway Senior Living, the staff was kept out of the room after police arrived. So there was no imminent threat to staff."The staff was not inside once the police were on the scene," Oliva told us. "At different times the staff were in there, but not when they were called. They (the police) were in charge at that point."
Police said there had been threats made against the staff. But Grapsas said he was told that staff begged to be allowed to try to calm down the old man. "If there were threats to the staff, why did the staff want to intervene and say, 'Let us handle this; we'll get him calmed down'?" he asked.
Grapsas says he was told that police used a riot shield to come through the door before shooting bean-bag rounds at the old man as he sat in his chair. Riot shields are used to push back mobs of angry young protesters in the streets, or against dangerous convicts in prison cells, not to subdue an old, old man in a chair.
"At some point, I'm told there were between five and seven police officers, they went back to the room with a riot shield in hand, entered the door and shot him with a shotgun that contained bean-bag rounds," Grapsas said.
If this is true and police had a riot shield, why on earth would they need a shotgun?
Most veteran cops I talked to suspect this is a case of unnecessary force. I've never met a police officer who couldn't handle a 95-year-old man in a walker. And John Wrana wasn't Jason Bourne. He was an old war veteran who didn't want to be pushed around...
Despicable. Oh, but those 96 year olds can really move across rooms quickly and attack.
Just who was the idiot who said, "Hey!!!! Let's taze him!!!! Let's beanbag him!!!!" This just infuriates me. How would any of us feel if that was our loved one? Lived 96 years on the face of this earth and ends up being killed by some hotdog cops without working brain cell between them. Unbelievable.
This is why so many people "hate" or distrust cops.
Every person who has witnessed this kind of nonsense, and seen NO repercussions levied against the officers involved, will probably NEVER trust the police again.
I've personally seen a ridiculous amount of abuse at the hands of police. I understand they have a dangerous job, which gets hairy and complex at times. But when they **** up they need to be held accountable, not just have it swept under the rug, as usually happens. I don't know of anybody who ever filed a complaint that ever received ANY satisfaction.
Make an example of cops who obviously ****ed up. It will go much farther with community relations than pretending it was ok to preserve the "image" of the department. Which is how an officer once explained the phenomenon.
So many things to say!
If Obama had a grandfather he's have looked like this guy. Oh, wait! Obama did have a grandfather and he did look like this guy!
The victim was white, but even if the cops were black, Charlie Wrangle will not call this an act of Racism.
When I worked as a hospital orderly, it wasn't unusual for irrational patients, or patients experiencing a transient mental episode to grab items and threaten the staff with physical injury. We didn't call the cops, we didn't tase them, and we didn't shoot them.
We didn't even use harsh language while we disarmed and restrained them. If we had, people would have thought us wusses and sued us. The standard approach was to pin them with a mattress.
Perhaps out of shape hospital orderlies out to train the police to deal with lethal threats from people born long before most of their grandparents.
People who want to turn their health care, and thus their flesh over to public entities would be well advised to meditate upon this issue.
Perhaps we should expect the Democrats to call for shoe horn control.
Nonagenarians should be licensed in order to protect the police, it seems.
So many things to say!
If Obama had a grandfather he's have looked like this guy. Oh, wait! Obama did have a grandfather and he did look like this guy!
The victim was white, but even if the cops were black, Charlie Wrangle will not call this an act of Racism.
When I worked as a hospital orderly, it wasn't unusual for irrational patients, or patients experiencing a transient mental episode to grab items and threaten the staff with physical injury. We didn't call the cops, we didn't tase them, and we didn't shoot them.
We didn't even use harsh language while we disarmed and restrained them. If we had, people would have thought us wusses and sued us. The standard approach was to pin them with a mattress.
Perhaps out of shape hospital orderlies out to train the police to deal with lethal threats from people born long before most of their grandparents.
People who want to turn their health care, and thus their flesh over to public entities would be well advised to meditate upon this issue.
Perhaps we should expect the Democrats to call for shoe horn control.
Nonagenarians should be licensed in order to protect the police, it seems.
What does any of this have to do with President Obama? Oh wait, I forgot. Obama is responsible for everything bad that happens! My mistake.
What does any of this have to do with President Obama? Oh wait, I forgot. Obama is responsible for everything bad that happens! My mistake.
Yeah, I'm getting tired of this heavy-handed cop garbage these days.
It is getting out of hand, just like the old days
This is just too ridiculous for words. Your thoughts?[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
Did cops need a Taser, riot shield and shotgun to subdue a 95-year-old veteran? - Chicago Tribune
It really sucks. Because it should be, and can be, a job of universal respect. Where only actual bad guys need fear interacting with them.
We can chalk this one up to the drug war. Victimless crimes are socially problematic. When political motivations are added to the mix you have escalation of violence as increasing drug profits meet increased enforcement. Arms races occur.
And the next thing you know some cop is cuffing you and talking to you like an unrepentant gang banger as a matter of procedure for a traffic stop. And if you call him on it you get a "justified" beating.
This isn't everywhere, its certainly not all cops. But it happens enough, and departments do nothing about it, that it erodes what a cop should be: a trusted protector.
In the eyes of those they're supposed to be protecting, they stop being shepherds and become the state's wolves.
It is getting worse. And when people get up in arms about it, they just point to the unrest as justification for more aggressive policies.
It really broke my heart when I realized as a responsible adult that I needed to teach adolescents to be "careful" with cops if they encountered them for their own safety. That hormone fueled nonsense LOTS of people I know did can get you killed by a cop today. That a smart mouth can get you beaten, charged with assault (or something you clearly didn't do), even killed. All while trying to instill the proper respect for the good cops and what they do for us.
This is why so many people "hate" or distrust cops.
Every person who has witnessed this kind of nonsense, and seen NO repercussions levied against the officers involved, will probably NEVER trust the police again.
There was a case a while back with a senior woman shot by police during a bad no knock warrant service, she kept a gun for protection and fired some rounds after they kicked in her door. Of course the police mistake was protected and it was filed under an "unfortunate misunderstanding" but I think if these officers are granted that kind of force and **** up they should be held accountable.Just who was the idiot who said, "Hey!!!! Let's taze him!!!! Let's beanbag him!!!!" This just infuriates me. How would any of us feel if that was our loved one? Lived 96 years on the face of this earth and ends up being killed by some hotdog cops without working brain cell between them. Unbelievable.
My big fear is these officers all over are going to keep doing these heavy handed maneuvers and cause an uproar, it isn't that far fetched that people start shooting back.Yeah, I'm getting tired of this heavy-handed cop garbage these days.
It is getting out of hand, just like the old days
... When I worked as a hospital orderly, it wasn't unusual for irrational patients, or patients experiencing a transient mental episode to grab items and threaten the staff with physical injury. We didn't call the cops, we didn't tase them, and we didn't shoot them.
We didn't even use harsh language while we disarmed and restrained them. If we had, people would have thought us wusses and sued us. The standard approach was to pin them with a mattress.
Perhaps out of shape hospital orderlies out to train the police to deal with lethal threats from people born long before most of their grandparents......
This is just too ridiculous for words. Your thoughts?[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
Did cops need a Taser, riot shield and shotgun to subdue a 95-year-old veteran? - Chicago Tribune
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