911: Planes Hijacked? Crashed into buildings? So where is the evidence?

[BmanMcfly]

How come every CT has to have a patsy involved?

Because patties give you someone else to blame rather than looking at the real culprits..

Why they keep coming out and ruining the official stories on stuff, I don't know, in the case of the 93 bombing, the patsy just realized he was about to be locked up forever as a terrorist, so he started recording conversations with the fbi so that he could prove his case.

Who?

You have Ali Ahmed Salem Al-Yazidi, an Olympic cyclist from Qatar.

Then you have Ahmed Salem Hassan, an Olympic cyclist from Egypt.

And Shehab Ahmed Salem Ali Alawlaqi, a UAE soccer player.

I have absolutely no idea who you mean. And if you are talking about the 1993 attack, that used a modified ANFO explosive, commonly used in Afghanistan because of it's ease of construction.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/28/n...o-thwart-bomb-used-in-trade-center-blast.html

This is what the NYtimes turned it into. .. the plan WAS to "thwart" the bombing by giving them the bombs and then arresting them in the process... emad wanted to make it a fake bomb, the fbi gave the real thing.

My bad that I misspelled the name slightly.

Also similar to the explosive made by Tim McVey.

So you are saying what exactly, that the FBI gave the terrorists half a ton of fertilizer?

Again, witnesses saw people (plural) dressed as phone repairmen Doing work (one saw what she described as "Grey sticks of butter"), all the relevant cameras all failed for the minutes around the bombing.

Oh and best of all: how many bombs were planted in the building?

If you said one, you are wrong. There's the one you know about and the 3 others that were defused in the aftermath.

 

[KokomoJojo]

Hmmm...sounds like a nefarious FBI plot to not take it down the first time but then take it down the second!

nah ooz posts a big fail and the fact is he cant relate to the difference between an enclosed blast and an open air blast.

 

[KokomoJojo]

Because patties give you someone else to blame rather than looking at the real culprits..

Why they keep coming out and ruining the official stories on stuff, I don't know, in the case of the 93 bombing, the patsy just realized he was about to be locked up forever as a terrorist, so he started recording conversations with the fbi so that he could prove his case.





Tapes Depict Proposal to Thwart Bomb Used in Trade Center Blast - NYTimes.com

This is what the NYtimes turned it into. .. the plan WAS to "thwart" the bombing by giving them the bombs and then arresting them in the process... emad wanted to make it a fake bomb, the fbi gave the real thing.

My bad that I misspelled the name slightly.



Again, witnesses saw people (plural) dressed as phone repairmen Doing work (one saw what she described as "Grey sticks of butter"), all the relevant cameras all failed for the minutes around the bombing.

Oh and best of all: how many bombs were planted in the building?

If you said one, you are wrong. There's the one you know about and the 3 others that were defused in the aftermath.

yep!

he is trying to make sense out of his research. Already proved to me its limited to to keyboard.

 

[Oozlefinch]

This is what the NYtimes turned it into. .. the plan WAS to "thwart" the bombing by giving them the bombs and then arresting them in the process... emad wanted to make it a fake bomb, the fbi gave the real thing.

What freaking "bombs"?

It was nothing but cow **** and diesel!

And the claims by Emad A. Salem? They have roundly been discredited. The only statements about the bomb happened after the attack happened.

While he knew Ramzi Yousef and the fact he was a known bomb maker from Afghanistan, the claims that he made after the bombings that it was an FBI plan have been roundly discredited.

Especially since the WTC bombing did not use any "bombs" at all, but crudely mixed fertilizer and fuel oil.

Now why would a known bomb maker require explosives from anybody? This guy could literally combine cow **** and oil and make a bomb. Asking people to believe he needed "bombs from the FBI" is like asking people to believe that MacGyver needed help from Pete Thornton to get out of dangerous situations.

 

[KokomoJojo]

Now this has long been the "White Supremist Bible".

arent we drifting a bit way off the deep end of off topic?

this is about where the hell is the evidence for 4 planes.

 

[BmanMcfly]

yep!

he is trying to make sense out of his research. Already proved to me its limited to to keyboard.

If there was a REAL terrorist attack, it would not have the fingerprints of government all over it, it would be of a much smaller scale, and it would target a target like the UN, the world bank, etc.

 

[KokomoJojo]

What freaking "bombs"?

It was nothing but cow **** and diesel!

And the claims by Emad A. Salem? They have roundly been discredited. The only statements about the bomb happened after the attack happened.

While he knew Ramzi Yousef and the fact he was a known bomb maker from Afghanistan, the claims that he made after the bombings that it was an FBI plan have been roundly discredited.

Especially since the WTC bombing did not use any "bombs" at all, but crudely mixed fertilizer and fuel oil.

Now why would a known bomb maker require explosives from anybody? This guy could literally combine cow **** and oil and make a bomb. Asking people to believe he needed "bombs from the FBI" is like asking people to believe that MacGyver needed help from Pete Thornton to get out of dangerous situations.

Thats all you know about it? OMG You from america?

 

[KokomoJojo]

If there was a REAL terrorist attack, it would not have the fingerprints of government all over it, it would be of a much smaller scale, and it would target a target like the UN, the world bank, etc.

well he fell right into the mud on this.

There are huge volumes of records and its like over a week worth of speed reading round the clock about how dirty this is. It even shocked me.

 

[BmanMcfly]

What freaking "bombs"?

It was nothing but cow **** and diesel!

And the claims by Emad A. Salem? They have roundly been discredited. The only statements about the bomb happened after the attack happened.

While he knew Ramzi Yousef and the fact he was a known bomb maker from Afghanistan, the claims that he made after the bombings that it was an FBI plan have been roundly discredited.

Especially since the WTC bombing did not use any "bombs" at all, but crudely mixed fertilizer and fuel oil.

Now why would a known bomb maker require explosives from anybody? This guy could literally combine cow **** and oil and make a bomb. Asking people to believe he needed "bombs from the FBI" is like asking people to believe that MacGyver needed help from Pete Thornton to get out of dangerous situations.

Lmao... the reaching.

If they were given high grade military explosive that would be easily determined after and that would point squarely to the source.

Yes, the tapes were recorded after the fact, but back in 93 there were still these things called investigations.

The fact that the tapes are as good as admissions of guilt doesn't matter...

Funny how you never heard of this 30 minutes ago and now you declare that it's been "roundly discredited"...

 

[OldWorldOrder]

lmfao

 

[Oozlefinch]

Lmao... the reaching.

If they were given high grade military explosive that would be easily determined after and that would point squarely to the source.

Yes, the tapes were recorded after the fact, but back in 93 there were still these things called investigations.

The fact that the tapes are as good as admissions of guilt doesn't matter...

Funny how you never heard of this 30 minutes ago and now you declare that it's been "roundly discredited"...

In case you are not freaking aware of this by statements I made already, I have been following this closely for decades.

In fact, I still remember the day it happened very clearly. I was on duty at the main water treatment facility for the city of Los Angeles. I was a security guard there, my first job after leaving the Marines.

I was also on duty there during the Waco siege.

The simple fact is, this only lives on in the mind of CT people like yourself. If I tell you after something happens that I predicted it would happen but had no proof, how seriously would you take it?

Probably as serious as I take this claim you present.

 

[BmanMcfly]

In case you are not freaking aware of this by statements I made already, I have been following this closely for decades.

In fact, I still remember the day it happened very clearly. I was on duty at the main water treatment facility for the city of Los Angeles. I was a security guard there, my first job after leaving the Marines.

I was also on duty there during the Waco siege.

The simple fact is, this only lives on in the mind of CT people like yourself. If I tell you after something happens that I predicted it would happen but had no proof, how seriously would you take it?

Probably as serious as I take this claim you present.

Ok... How this disproves the fact that the Bombing wouldn't have taken place without fbi assistance, I'm not sure.

How about you find the tapes (they are on YouTube) and listen for yourself?

I put up the New York Times article... Discussing the tapes, but trying to spin it into something that the FBI were legitimately trying to stop. If they were trying to stop it, they are the most incompetent group ever... I mean, they supplied the bombs, the detonators, and the informant, knew who was involved, when and where the attacks could take place AND STILL not stop it.

Like I said, the reaching some people do to maintain their delusions, it's not like you've even tried to put anything that would suggest that this was wrong... So, you follow this thing for years, yet you don't know the name of the FBI informant?? Hmmm...

 

[Oozlefinch]

Ok... How this disproves the fact that the Bombing wouldn't have taken place without fbi assistance, I'm not sure.

And did Timothy McVeigh need FBI assistance to construct a bomb 6 times more powerful? Also made from diesel fuel and fertilizer?

What is so ****ing hard about buying cow **** and diesel fuel? This is also the main components in most of the IEDs used in Iraq and Afghanistan. Were those also made with FBI assistance?

 

[BmanMcfly]

Oh ya... How about you try buying 1/3 that much fertilizer without farmland to bring it to, see how long before the questions start.

 

[BmanMcfly]

And did Timothy McVeigh need FBI assistance to construct a bomb 6 times more powerful? Also made from diesel fuel and fertilizer?

What is so ****ing hard about buying cow **** and diesel fuel? This is also the main components in most of the IEDs used in Iraq and Afghanistan. Were those also made with FBI assistance?

Again, mcveigh was not alone, and until you accept that there were at least 4 bombs in the building, then you aren't working with all the basic information, Nevermind the sheer volume of evidence, witnesses, etc...that shows that the story the public was told is a fraction of the truth.

I hope you realize that buying the quantities and type of fertilizer you would use for a bomb, without being a farmer, would raise some red flags? Not that this is the only issue.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Oh ya... How about you try buying 1/3 that much fertilizer without farmland to bring it to, see how long before the questions start.

In 1993 (or 1995), no questions were ever asked if you wanted to buy 100 tons of fertilizer.

It was only after 2 similar attacks within 3 years did some states start to put restrictions into the amounts you can buy.

So to prove this point, please prove us that there were any such restrictions in place in 1993.

In fact, even today you can still buy it by the ton in most states. You simply have to provide positive ID first in most states.

For example, in Texas, you can still buy as much as you want and can be provided. Photo ID is all that is required. No need to prove you own a farm, or have a need to buy that much. Just prove who you are and you can have it shipped wherever you want by the ton.

And there is no restriction at all on small purchases. A couple of bags here, a couple of bags there, a couple of bags somewhere else.

You could easily make a freaking powerful bomb simply buy buying 2 bags from each of the hundreds of stores in the LA area alone. No ID checks, no paperwork, no nothing.

 

[BmanMcfly]

In 1993 (or 1995), no questions were ever asked if you wanted to buy 100 tons of fertilizer.

It was only after 2 similar attacks within 3 years did some states start to put restrictions into the amounts you can buy.

So to prove this point, please prove us that there were any such restrictions in place in 1993.

In fact, even today you can still buy it by the ton in most states. You simply have to provide positive ID first in most states.

For example, in Texas, you can still buy as much as you want and can be provided. Photo ID is all that is required. No need to prove you own a farm, or have a need to buy that much. Just prove who you are and you can have it shipped wherever you want by the ton.

And there is no restriction at all on small purchases. A couple of bags here, a couple of bags there, a couple of bags somewhere else.

You could easily make a freaking powerful bomb simply buy buying 2 bags from each of the hundreds of stores in the LA area alone. No ID checks, no paperwork, no nothing.

You show ID because if you are buying more than a bag or 2 of fertilizer and you live in the suburbs, it raises red flags and you'll be looked at with suspicion.

Before, maybe not, I don't know, I don't really doubt it.

Oh, and it's not as simple as throwing gas on a pile of fertilizer and lighting a match...

Not that it makes a difference, we have the FBI agent DESCRIBING HIS COMPLICITY on tape.

Seriously, when you are denying confessions without coercion, you're down to wishful thinking.

 

[Oozlefinch]

You show ID because if you are buying more than a bag or 2 of fertilizer and you live in the suburbs, it raises red flags and you'll be looked at with suspicion.

Before, maybe not, I don't know, I don't really doubt it.

Oh, and it's not as simple as throwing gas on a pile of fertilizer and lighting a match...

Not that it makes a difference, we have the FBI agent DESCRIBING HIS COMPLICITY on tape.

Seriously, when you are denying confessions without coercion, you're down to wishful thinking.

No, we have a known terrorist describing a plot on tape after the fact. We do not have an FBI agent describing his complicity on tape.

And if you do not know if this was a requirement or not, then what in ****ing right do you have to ****ing dispute it?

Sorry, this only proves to me that you do absolutely no ****ing research before you make any claims. You do not know anything of which you are talking about. You are only lashing out from some ****ing knee-jerk idea that you have to defend your stance, if you have any facts to back you up or not!

When you come and debate with me, you had damned well better come with some facts to back your claims up. And not some silly-assed conspiracy theory. Because I will bury you in facts ever goddamed time.

And although you have mentioned this over and over again, let me provide the entire relevant transcript of Emad Salem.

FBI Special Agent John Anticev: But, uh, basically nothing has changed. I'm just telling you for my own sake that nothing, that this isn't a salary, that it's—you know. But you got paid regularly for good information. I mean the expenses were a little bit out of the ordinary and it was really questioned. Don't tell Nancy I told you this. [Nancy Floyd is another FBI Special Agent who worked with Emad A. Salem in his informant capacity.]

FBI undercover agent Emad A. Salem: Well, I have to tell her of course.

Anticev: Well then, if you have to, you have to.

Salem: Yeah, I mean because the lady was being honest and I was being honest and everything was submitted with a receipt and now it's questionable.

Anticev: It's not questionable, it's like a little out of the ordinary.

Salem: Okay. Alright. I don't think it was. If that's what you think guys, fine, but I don't think that because we was start already building the bomb which is went off in the World Trade Center. It was built by supervising supervision from the Bureau and the D.A. and we was all informed about it and we know that the bomb start to be built. By who? By your confidential informant. What a wonderful, great case!

Anticev: Well.Salem: And then he put his head in the sand and said "Oh, no, no, that's not true, he is son of a bitch." [Deep breath.] Okay. It's built with a different way in another place and that's it.Anticev: No, don't make any rash decisions. I'm just trying to be as honest with you as I can.

Salem: Of course, I appreciate that.

Anticev: And as far as the payments go, and everything like that, they're there. I guarantee you that they are there.

Now notice the past tense. This was a statement made after the 1993 WTC bombing. Now how seriously would any reasonable person take this statement? Or that FBI assistance was needed to buy diesel fuel and cow****?

Notice how you make insinuations. But I actually provide facts, clearly and concisely. I myself have nothing to fear from those silly claims, because any reasonable person who knows what the explosive was (cow**** and diesel fuel) and how hard it was to acquire in 1993 or 1995 (not hard at all) would know you are simply making claims out of your ass with nothing to back it up.

Now, can you prove that either cow**** or diesel fuel was hard to purchase in 1993 or 1995?

 

[Fledermaus]

Not even ATTEMPTED to prove.

The closest I've seen, when tasked to demonstrate what leads them to believe that and each time was just : "if you can't see it it's your fault".

I've seen nothing to believe you are a troll, Poe or whatever new term that comes up... but I was asking out of legitimate curiosity to determine what measure they use...

I figured in worst case they would describe traits and tactics they use themselves regularly, but no... just the vague non-answers.

Getting POE'ned

Speaking of vague non-answers....

Have an intelligent counter-theory yet?

And have you settled on an explosive yet? You seem to be pin-balling between high explosives, pyrotechnics and God knows what else...

 

[Fledermaus]

Is Bman STILL trying to float the lie that the FBI provided the bombs for the 1993 WTC explosions?

 

[Mark F]

If there was a REAL terrorist attack, it would not have the fingerprints of government all over it, it would be of a much smaller scale, and it would target a target like the UN, the world bank, etc.

OK, I,ll bite,... Why?

 

[Mark F]

And did Timothy McVeigh need FBI assistance to construct a bomb 6 times more powerful? Also made from diesel fuel and fertilizer?

What is so ****ing hard about buying cow **** and diesel fuel? This is also the main components in most of the IEDs used in Iraq and Afghanistan. Were those also made with FBI assistance?

Step 1: Buy cow :censored
Step 2: Buy fuel oil
Step 3: Rent Truck

Even the Underpants Gnomes could figure this one out. Heck, I think even Bman could have pulled this one off without any government welfare. Or,... maybe he couldn't and because he couldn't he figures no one else could either so they had to have federal assistance.

 

[Thoreau72]

Then refresh my memory.

Provide a source you used to determine the wtc were nuked.

Interesting you started the denial posts shortly after an article was presented on one of the CT sites.
Interesting you started to claim about nukes after Prager came out with his book.

Yes its fun. I bet we won't agree on who is not really "mature and honest" in the discussion.

Once again , please provide a source you read about nukes.
Was it from the Russian nuke specialists.
Was it Jeff Pragers book
We know you did not do an onsite investigation.

By providing your source of information one may get a better understanding.

I have read and considered many sources Mike.

Mysterious damage to vehicles on the street. Massive pieces of structural steel blown hundreds of feet horizontally. Massive explosions in the basements moments before the airplane strike. Explosions reported by hundreds of people, including cops and firemen. Molten steel that lasted for 3 months. These and other facts have been reported since the very beginning, by many sources.

It could be that I am simply more informed than you Mike? Is that it? Have I been doing more reading than you, or do I just retain and analyze it better? I don't know.

Rodriguez described the skin dripping from the man coming out of the basement area for about 13 years now Mike. Where ya been?

Yes, Prager did put it all together, and yes he provided a lot of technical data that I had not been familiar with prior, but most of what he covered I already knew.

Critical thinking Mike, maybe that's what separates you and me? I'm not trying to brag or to criticize you, but it still amazes me how some folks simply cannot understand that the official story does not pass muster, intellectually.

 

[Thoreau72]

FACT: 4 airliners were hijacked

FACT: 3 were flown into buildings

FACT: 1 was flown into the ground by the hijackers.

FACT The towers collapsed

FACT: There was NO indication of explosives

FACT: The NORAD exercises had no effect on the intercepts

FACT: NORAD exercises did not affect civilian radar.

Seems only a few *ahem* special folks deny those facts.

Sure Maus, sure. And Dubya saw the first airplane strike on a TV somewhere or other and the Moon is made of Green Cheese!

 

[mike2810]

I have read and considered many sources Mike.

Mysterious damage to vehicles on the street. Massive pieces of structural steel blown hundreds of feet horizontally. Massive explosions in the basements moments before the airplane strike. Explosions reported by hundreds of people, including cops and firemen. Molten steel that lasted for 3 months. These and other facts have been reported since the very beginning, by many sources.

It could be that I am simply more informed than you Mike? Is that it? Have I been doing more reading than you, or do I just retain and analyze it better? I don't know.

Rodriguez described the skin dripping from the man coming out of the basement area for about 13 years now Mike. Where ya been?

Yes, Prager did put it all together, and yes he provided a lot of technical data that I had not been familiar with prior, but most of what he covered I already knew.

Critical thinking Mike, maybe that's what separates you and me? I'm not trying to brag or to criticize you, but it still amazes me how some folks simply cannot understand that the official story does not pass muster, intellectually.

One again HD, not one source listed.



I doubt your more informed. What I bet is your sources are way different than mine. I tend to use all sources I can.

Once again HD, you have to try and belittle a poster with your self claimed superior thinking. I would bet I have done more investigations of tragic events than you.

Besides govt reports, list a source. Why is that so hard for you to provide one source.