91 year old man, robbed and.. oh wait, he was a CPL holder!

[Crimefree]

Deny what ? ! #2

Well then just explain how guns cause crime. That should not be difficult.

More guns = more death good grief fella you don't half go through hoops trying to avoid the obvious even when it gets presented to you from multiple independent sources. Here are more all showing the higher the rate of gun ownership the more death across both individual US states and internationally

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

More Guns Equal More Deaths, Study Finds

https://thinkprogress.org/largest-gun-study-ever-more-guns-more-murder-bdec2a00b8d1#.v8l3c9vh6

You are trying to uses a flat earth analogy as proof. Just because a bunch of known gun control propaganda sources makes the claim does not make it true. Should I point you to the CDC study, that of the Academy of sciences, Kleck and Gerts, John Lott, Gary Mauser, Wright and Rossi and a host of others that show how patently wrong gun controls lying contentions are?

You are at far greater risk to yourself carrying a gun than from any perp

Overall, Branas’s study found that people who carried guns were 4.5 times as likely to be shot and 4.2 times as likely to get killed compared with unarmed citizens. When the team looked at shootings in which victims had a chance to defend themselves, their odds of getting shot were even higher.

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...un-increases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed/

This is what a balanced report looks like. Take a long hard look it is the first time you have seen one.

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense?

 

[OpportunityCost]

Why is living in armed paranoid fear of everyone a good thing ?

You must not buy health, life or auto insurance. Paranoid fear and all that...

 

[flogger]

You must not buy health, life or auto insurance. Paranoid fear and all that...

Those aren't lethal weapons a gun is. I suspect you'd be unlikely to kill anyone with your insurance policies :lol:

 

[Port & Starboard]

If you want to rob or mug some person on his property, or on the street, then you be better be able to accept the consequences for your actions when things don't go down as you expected.

The perp is now a vase full of ashes, or laying tits up somewheres while taking the eternal dirt nap.

A "win win" for society.

 

[Crimefree]

Those aren't lethal weapons a gun is. I suspect you'd be unlikely to kill anyone with your insurance policies :lol:

WTF has this emotional fear driven drivel got to do with it?

 

[BretJ]

Go look at the videos dude: It's proven.

In those specific cases. Ask your son if he believes a gun is never necessary. Double dog dare you.

Perhaps you should consider giving up your guns and car keys....seriously.

 

[flogger]

If you want to rob or mug some person on his property, or on the street, then you be better be able to accept the consequences for your actions when things don't go down as you expected.

The perp is now a vase full of ashes, or laying tits up somewheres while taking the eternal dirt nap.

A "win win" for society.

Or a statistically more likely scenario is that he had his gun out first and its you thats in the urn after being shot drawing yours

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/

 

[blackjack50]

Or a statistically more likely scenario is that he had his gun out first and its you thats in the urn after being shot drawing yours

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/

He was 91 years old and still law abiding. We know we know. Your society would rather see innocent victims slain or beaten or sent to jail if they defend themselves. I will also note your article stated that "intimidating" someone is "socially undesirable." That depends on who gets intimidated. If it is a wanna be thug trying to commit a crime? I'd call that a win.

Your antipathy towards self defense is noted. We aren't a society of victims like yours.


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[QuadpolarNutjob]

how are you supposed to determine the boundaries of the criminal's intentions? should i take his word for it that he just means to take my wallet? my only thought after reading the article is that it's a shame the thug is still alive.

 

[blackjack50]

Deny what ? ! #2



More guns = more death good grief fella you don't half go through hoops trying to avoid the obvious even when it gets presented to you from multiple independent sources. Here are more all showing the higher the rate of gun ownership the more death across both individual US states and internationally

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

More Guns Equal More Deaths, Study Finds

https://thinkprogress.org/largest-gun-study-ever-more-guns-more-murder-bdec2a00b8d1#.v8l3c9vh6



You are at far greater risk to yourself carrying a gun than from any perp

Overall, Branas’s study found that people who carried guns were 4.5 times as likely to be shot and 4.2 times as likely to get killed compared with unarmed citizens. When the team looked at shootings in which victims had a chance to defend themselves, their odds of getting shot were even higher.

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...un-increases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed/

All your studies have been debunked my man. Hell your Harvard thing just states and does not actually provide proof

But hey...you want to prove it to me? Show me a list of all "first world" country murder rates from highest to lowest, and then list the number of firearms in each country. If you are right...then the list will follow through.

Ps

Basic statistics: correlation does not equal causation. Your links didn't account for that.

I've had access to firearms since I was about 12 or so (shooting with father). I've never shot myself or anyone else. Just because you are incapable of handling a firearm safely doesn't mean I am.


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[jet57]

In those specific cases. Ask your son if he believes a gun is never necessary. Double dog dare you.

Perhaps you should consider giving up your guns and car keys....seriously.

I can tell you now that he believes the less guns on the street, the easier his job will be.

 

[CycloneWanderer]

Hot tap water is not relevant to a gun death discussion: it's a diversion.

Too many people are killed by guns - full stop. That's a problem.

No one died in the situation described in the article linked in the OP...

 

[flogger]

Your antipathy towards self defense is noted. We aren't a society of victims like yours.

The problem is the real world isn't like the movies. Far too often in the US lethal defence is deemed the first and only defence

 

[flogger]

All your studies have been debunked my man.Hell your Harvard thing just states and does not actually provide proof

Debunked by what ? Show me the studies directly addressing their errors ?

But hey...you want to prove it to me? Show me a list of all "first world" country murder rates from highest to lowest, and then list the number of firearms in each country. If you are right...then the list will follow through.

I can't force you to acknowledge something you refuse to whatever I post and thats been an awful lot so far

Basic statistics: correlation does not equal causation. Your links didn't account for that.

Well yes they actually do and they allude to that several times. You are simply in denial

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

More Guns, More Crime: Yet Another Study Debunking the Myth ? Armed With Reason

I've had access to firearms since I was about 12 or so (shooting with father). I've never shot myself or anyone else. Just because you are incapable of handling a firearm safely doesn't mean I am.

I was well trained in the use of firearms in my military service and used them in combat too. What has this got to do with anything ?

 

[blaxshep]

The problem is the real world isn't like the movies. Far too often in the US lethal defence is deemed the first and only defence

That is because it works.

 

[blackjack50]

The problem is the real world isn't like the movies. Far too often in the US lethal defence is deemed the first and only defence

Kinda easy to be a "tough guy" when you aren't the one with a crazy ass drug dealer as your next door neighbor, or you arent 91 years old, or a 5'4 woman whose now ex husband has stalked and beat and raped you, and so on. It isn't my problem that you are squeamish about thugs getting what they deserve.

When you victimize innocent people in a society that respects the right to defend yourself...sic semper tyrannis. Why do you weep for the criminals? Oh yea! Because your country jails people for defending their lives.


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[blackjack50]

Debunked by what ? Show me the studies directly addressing their errors ?



I can't force you to acknowledge something you refuse to whatever I post and thats been an awful lot so far



Well yes they actually do and they allude to that several times. You are simply in denial

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

More Guns, More Crime: Yet Another Study Debunking the Myth ? Armed With Reason



I was well trained in the use of firearms in my military service and used them in combat too. What has this got to do with anything ?

Obviously you weren't if you can't effectively and safely use a firearm. You seem to believe you are what? 4.5 times more likely to harm yourself? That's pretty ****ty if you ask me. I have a 0% chance because I know how a gun works.

As for your studies: they don't account for squat. Show me a study that has each nation's murder rate and their numbers of firearms on the list. All you have done is listed the numbers of deaths. And then made an assumption. As I have said: correlation does not equal causation.

Did you know that autism rates and vaccinations are correlated? Does that mean vaccines cause autism? Dude. This is basic statistics. Basic scientific method. Basic data analysis.

Causation vs Correlation

Here is one for you:

https://www.ncadd.org/about-addiction/alcohol-drugs-and-crime

Looks to me like we have an addiction problem. But hey. You just want to ignore all other factors huh?


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[flogger]

When you victimize innocent people in a society that respects the right to defend yourself...sic semper tyrannis. Why do you weep for the criminals? Oh yea! Because your country jails people for defending their lives.

So in other words lethal defence for you is always going to be the first and only defence against any crime however petty right ?

 

[flogger]

Obviously you weren't if you can't effectively and safely use a firearm.

But I can and have effectively used a firearm so I have no clue what you are on about

You seem to believe you are what? 4.5 times more likely to harm yourself? That's pretty ****ty if you ask me. I have a 0% chance because I know how a gun works.

They are not my numbers so take it up with the author of the study :roll:

As for your studies: they don't account for squat. Show me a study that has each nation's murder rate and their numbers of firearms on the list. All you have done is listed the numbers of deaths. And then made an assumption. As I have said: correlation does not equal causation.

You have been shown multiple times now that with firearms it most certainly does. Again take your complaint about their findings up with the authors of the studies concerned

 

[OpportunityCost]

Those aren't lethal weapons a gun is. I suspect you'd be unlikely to kill anyone with your insurance policies :lol:

A gun is not paranoia, its preparing for the worst. You apparently missed the parallel but then again, deliberate ignorance is the only way to ignore the arguments of the other side isn't it?

 

[BretJ]

I can tell you now that he believes the less guns on the street, the easier his job will be.

Fine. Ask him if he feels a firearm is never needed. Then argue with him why he is wrong...

 

[BretJ]

Debunked by what ? Show me the studies directly addressing their errors ?



I can't force you to acknowledge something you refuse to whatever I post and thats been an awful lot so far



Well yes they actually do and they allude to that several times. You are simply in denial

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

More Guns, More Crime: Yet Another Study Debunking the Myth ? Armed With Reason



I was well trained in the use of firearms in my military service and used them in combat too. What has this got to do with anything ?

So you would trust yourself with a firearm but assume everyone else is not trustworthy enough to be responsible. Now tell me why that is not paranoia...out of curiosity, why don't they give military members special dispensation to own firearms. After all, they are trained aren't they? They should be trustworthy correct? Nope, because they are highly trained killers that cannot be trusted with firearms. Whereas your typical UK citizen is a potential common thug who cannot be trusted with firearms....

 

[MickeyW]

Common sense would be to reduce the dangers both to myself and to the wider society. Guns do the opposite

Well as was shown multiple studies disagree and thats before we even look more closely at the physical numbers

You lost 126 police officers in the line of duty last year (and the bulk of those were shot) where we lost none

Your murder rate is nearly 5 times ours 70% of which involved the use of a firearm

Well flogger, I'll take my experience as a street cop, long before I'd put any weight in your bogus studies.

btw...I named one of my new guns after you..... You should feel proud that the more you talk, the more I buy. :2razz:

 

[MickeyW]

Those aren't lethal weapons a gun is. I suspect you'd be unlikely to kill anyone with your insurance policies :lol:

My gun will protect me, my insurance policies....Won't!

A gun is for now, insurance is for after the fact...if you even survive to get the pay out.

 

[MickeyW]

If you want to rob or mug some person on his property, or on the street, then you be better be able to accept the consequences for your actions when things don't go down as you expected.

The perp is now a vase full of ashes, or laying tits up somewheres while taking the eternal dirt nap.

A "win win" for society.

Yes it is....

WTF has this emotional fear driven drivel got to do with it?

Ditto!

In those specific cases. Ask your son if he believes a gun is never necessary. Double dog dare you.

Perhaps you should consider giving up your guns and car keys....seriously.

Ditto!

Or a statistically more likely scenario is that he had his gun out first and its you thats in the urn after being shot drawing yours

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/

No, that is not a more likely scenario at all.

When I teach folks to protect themselves and use their gun, I talk about conciliatory and diversion tactics and many other tricks, that you don't have a clue about. I also teach them to shoot right through their purse or jacket or sports coat, at close range, and no draw is needed. Most encounters are about 2 to 10 feet. Point shoot, like pointing your finger, no sights needed.

I'm thinking that your air force experiences had nothing to do with close encounters such as door to door routs and hand to hand combat. And that being the reason you don't know what you are talking about and have to fall back on bogus studies.