71 Wind Turbines at Windfarm in Scotland Powered by Diesel Generators!

[uptower]

Lies as usual. This is a problem that occurs all the time. Wind farms have to be kept running (using fossil fuel generators) even when there's no wind or else they break down.


Aww, your silly posts has been exposed as fraudulent and all you can think of is a meme. Too bad lol

Says the guy who brings nothing but LOLs and emojis while the rest of us discuss data and reports.

 

[ralfy]

It has a positive net effect, but at a high price. The fossil fuel it uses doesn't matter because it does in fact lower usage of fossil fuel. What matters is the environmental impact and cost. Costs that are highly subsidized and cannot continue indefinitely.

But you're only supporting the arguments raised in the docu! Where are the lies?

 

[ralfy]

Where this idea breaks down is when the refinery is a separate business unit from the extraction unit.
From the refineries perspective, it does not matter how much energy they get out vs in, but how much they pay for the feedstock.
The extraction component also only cares about what they can sell their product for.
Because of the demand, the price of oil will keep raising, and as I stated there will come a time when the
refinery will see greater profits by not buying oil, but by buying surplus wholesale electricity and creating
their own feedstock from elements in the air and water. (Hydrogen and Carbon)
As far as what can be provided, under the Navy's modest 60% storage efficiency (Sunfire claims 80% is possible),
it would take 55 kWh to create a gallon of gasoline.
How much land does solar need to generate a megawatt hour?

So each acre of panels could produce ~6,100 gallons of gasoline per year.
The amounts of diesel or jet fuel would be a little less, but the idea is that anyone with an energy supply, can make
all the fuel they need. Like the old mills charged a percentage of the crops to mill the product,
I suspect the refineries could supply fuel to farm operations for electricity.
Perhaps Solar homeowners could get a fuel credit for their surplus as well.

The idea only breaks down if world oil production per capita went up after 1979. It didn't.

The price of oil does not necessarily go up because of demand, and demand doesn't necessarily go down because price is high. That's why consumption remained even when oil prices went up before 2012, and consumption didn't go up dramatically when oil prices plummeted during the early phase of the pandemic.

The rest of your post shows low energy returns. That leaves energy quantity, which is also low:

The Oil Drum | Why EROI Matters (Part 1 of 6)

theoildrum.com

 

[Lord of Planar]

LOL

Deniers gonna deny

I pretty much only deny that the AGW cult agenda is good.

 

[Lord of Planar]

But you're only supporting the arguments raised in the docu! Where are the lies?

I said my peace. That's it. I'm not watching that film again. Period.

 

[longview]

The idea only breaks down if world oil production per capita went up after 1979. It didn't.

The price of oil does not necessarily go up because of demand, and demand doesn't necessarily go down because price is high. That's why consumption remained even when oil prices went up before 2012, and consumption didn't go up dramatically when oil prices plummeted during the early phase of the pandemic.

The rest of your post shows low energy returns. That leaves energy quantity, which is also low:

The Oil Drum | Why EROI Matters (Part 1 of 6)

theoildrum.com

The growing demand will push the prices higher and make alternative, even low energy return one more attractive. Like the self check outs in many stores, they were expensive but the raising cost of labor made them possible.
More important than energy return is energy sustainability. Hydrocarbon energy storage is a pathway to energy sustainability.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Yup, hurry up and read it then.

I did. It showed me that, in your rush to prove that "green energy = bad," you tripped over your own dick and fell flat on your face.

 

[Razoo]

Some of it was poor maintenance and downright stealing. There's over a thousand windmills but the CEO is from Spain.
His salary is over 11 million per year. They need to get their act together.

"At the time Sharon Graham, Unite general secretary, said: “How’s that for trickle-down economics? Billion of pounds are being handed over from Scottish Power to Iberdrola in Spain.

"Trickle down from Scotland to Spanish shareholders."

Galan, the CEO of ScottishPower’s parent company Iberdrola, once appeared before Spain’s High Court in relation to allegations that he spied on the chairman of Real Madrid. He gave testimony behind closed doors over whether Iberdrola hired police chief turned private detective Jose Manuel Villarejo.

"Whatever the reasons, having to use diesel generators to de-ice faulty turbines is environmental madness. This level of dishonesty cuts to the very core of the SNP and Green Government where their rhetoric on net zero is very different from the reality."

Not initially designed to operate this way ..................... a technical screw up by the corporation. Many wind sources are functioning as they should ......just not some in Scotland.

 

[ralfy]

I said my peace. That's it. I'm not watching that film again. Period.

I'm not asking you to watch the film again, just to explain why you think the docu is full of lies even though every point you gave was also made by it.

 

[ralfy]

The growing demand will push the prices higher and make alternative, even low energy return one more attractive. Like the self check outs in many stores, they were expensive but the raising cost of labor made them possible.
More important than energy return is energy sustainability. Hydrocarbon energy storage is a pathway to energy sustainability.

Prices also go up when energy returns are low. And demand goes down when the economy craters; in addition, the industry falls apart, too, because it still has overhead costs even though it sells less. And these don't include debt needed for capex. The BIS now estimates that at $2 trillion, and in the states, likely mostly in junk bonds.

It's like being caught between a rock and a hard place.

Of course, all that's irrelevant given gamechangers like hydrocarbon, etc., except that they have low energy returns, too.

 

[longview]

Prices also go up when energy returns are low. And demand goes down when the economy craters; in addition, the industry falls apart, too, because it still has overhead costs even though it sells less. And these don't include debt needed for capex. The BIS now estimates that at $2 trillion, and in the states, likely mostly in junk bonds.

It's like being caught between a rock and a hard place.

Of course, all that's irrelevant given gamechangers like hydrocarbon, etc., except that they have low energy returns, too.

There is no doubt that the exploration/extraction side of oil will take a hit, but the refining side and the distribution
component, should do well, because from olefins to the gas pump will remain the same.
only the source of the olefins will change. P.S. I think the demand for finished fuel products will keep rising for a while.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Of course, all that's irrelevant given gamechangers like hydrocarbon, etc., except that they have low energy returns, too.

Just because it has a lower energy return doesn't make it invalid. Such processes can use electricity when the supply is greater than the demand. Solar and wind can be 0ver-built so their lowest combined output satisfied the consumer needs of electricity. Consider it a way to store power, that would otherwise need to be stored in grid scale batteries at a high price. Without some type of storage, we can never get rid of fossile fulel usage for electrical generation.

 

[PoS]

Says the guy who brings nothing but LOLs and emojis while the rest of us discuss data and reports.

LOL you posted a meme. Stop making yourself look bad.

I did. It showed me that, in your rush to prove that "green energy = bad," you tripped over your own dick and fell flat on your face.

LOL the usual projection. If you knew anything youd have said something by now, but you never do, so thats nothing new

 

[Noodlegawd]

LOL you posted a meme. Stop making yourself look bad.


LOL the usual projection. If you knew anything youd have said something by now, but you never do, so thats nothing new

I did say something. You responded to it. Did you forget halfway through writing your last comment to me?

 

[Glitch]

The growing demand will push the prices higher and make alternative, even low energy return one more attractive. Like the self check outs in many stores, they were expensive but the raising cost of labor made them possible.
More important than energy return is energy sustainability. Hydrocarbon energy storage is a pathway to energy sustainability.

Your prediction didn't work out so well when oil was $120+ per barrel in 2021. Solar panels are still too expensive and so are wind generators. Nobody outside of leftist governments are going "green."

Hydrocarbon energy storage is a pathway to bankruptcy and a severe reduction in the standard of living for everyone.

 

[longview]

Your prediction didn't work out so well when oil was $120+ per barrel in 2021. Solar panels are still too expensive and so are wind generators. Nobody outside of leftist governments are going "green."

Hydrocarbon energy storage is a pathway to bankruptcy and a severe reduction in the standard of living for everyone.

It will happen because there will not be other choices. If the only fuel to be had for a given price is the man made variety, that is what people will choose.

 

[ralfy]

There is no doubt that the exploration/extraction side of oil will take a hit, but the refining side and the distribution
component, should do well, because from olefins to the gas pump will remain the same.
only the source of the olefins will change. P.S. I think the demand for finished fuel products will keep rising for a while.

When one takes a hit, the other will be hit as well for obvious reasons.

 

[ralfy]

Just because it has a lower energy return doesn't make it invalid. Such processes can use electricity when the supply is greater than the demand. Solar and wind can be 0ver-built so their lowest combined output satisfied the consumer needs of electricity. Consider it a way to store power, that would otherwise need to be stored in grid scale batteries at a high price. Without some type of storage, we can never get rid of fossile fulel usage for electrical generation.

Several of the points you raised are due to low energy returns. It's valid because the economy needs the opposite.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Several of the points you raised are due to low energy returns. It's valid because the economy needs the opposite.

The whole picture matters. Right now, we have rendered coal and natural gas more expensive by having to idle plants when the wind blows and sun shines. They have artificially been made more expensive to make way for cyclical solar and chaotic wind.

Do you have a better option? I haven't seen one. No matter what we do, the future expense of power will hurt many people, bust because of a wishy-washy agenda.

 

[longview]

When one takes a hit, the other will be hit as well for obvious reasons.

They are separate profit centers, antitrust and all that! The refinery could still make finished fuel products even without a supply of oil.

 

[Glitch]

It will happen because there will not be other choices. If the only fuel to be had for a given price is the man made variety, that is what people will choose.

It will never happen voluntarily. Only by force will you get people to pay your ridiculous astronomically high prices for energy. Everyone else will be using a much cheaper source of energy and laughing at you as you go broke with your stupid hydrocarbon bullshit.

 

[longview]

It will never happen voluntarily. Only by force will you get people to pay your ridiculous astronomically high prices for energy. Everyone else will be using a much cheaper source of energy and laughing at you as you go broke with your stupid hydrocarbon bullshit.

It will happen because the man made stuff with naturally be the least expensive choice.
Say fuel made from oil is $6.00 a gallon and fuel made from scratch is $5.00 a gallon, I know which one I will be buying.

 

[Glitch]

The whole picture matters. Right now, we have rendered coal and natural gas more expensive by having to idle plants when the wind blows and sun shines. They have artificially been made more expensive to make way for cyclical solar and chaotic wind.

Do you have a better option? I haven't seen one. No matter what we do, the future expense of power will hurt many people, bust because of a wishy-washy agenda.

If leftists, and it is always exclusively leftists, would stop interfering with our energy production, we would have abundant cheap energy and the standard of living would improve significantly.

This is just another manifestation of how much the left hates humanity. When increasing the price of energy and lowering the standard of living is not enough for these human-loathing freaks, they attack the food supply with their demands to abolish all nitrogen-based fertilizers. These sick and twisted leftists are a threat to humanity no less than Mao, Stalin, or Hitler was, and they slaughtered more than 100 million between them.

 

[Glitch]

It will happen because the man made stuff with naturally be the least expensive choice.
Say fuel made from oil is $6.00 a gallon and fuel made from scratch is $5.00 a gallon, I know which one I will be buying.

Except your "fuel made from scratch" is going to cost $5,000/gallon, not $5. Only the extremely wealthy will be able to afford your hydrocarbon nonsense. Which is your goal all along no doubt. You stick to buying your manufactured fuel, I will stick with the fuel that comes out of the ground.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Except your "fuel made from scratch" is going to cost $5,000/gallon, not $5. Only the extremely wealthy will be able to afford your hydrocarbon nonsense. Which is your goal all along no doubt. You stick to buying your manufactured fuel, I will stick with the fuel that comes out of the ground.

I disagree with that. From time to time, I see a research reference to the progress. We aren't there yet, but I do believe that making fuel from CO2 will happen in the fear future.

We can burn natural gas and capture all the CO2 from it. We then use excess power to return the simple molecules to more complex ones. I suspect Longview's strike price is correct, but the costs need to stay that high. Not bounce below it. We aren't there yet either, and nobody is going to invest their own capitol of a venture that may fail.

Only the government spend money on failures. Corporate America assesses the risk. Governments assess the votes they buy.