MaggieD
DP Veteran
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Nor should they have the authority to make that decision, either way.
1. That an investigation into how the LCP is being administered has been launched.
2. That it is alleged that some patients are being put on the LCP without them or their families being told.
3. That it is alleged that hospitals are being rewarded for putting patients on the LCP.
4. That the Health Minister thinks that despite some problems the LCP is a tremendous advance in patient care, or words to that effect.
Take away all the pejorative language in the OP, and you've got Hospice Care. We've had that path in the United States for quite some time.
But doesn't hospice care in America require consent? I'm confused. :stars:
There is no such thing as a citizen worth more than another citizen. What you propose is bigotry of an even worse type than by race. You would make a great Communist dictator though.
Thanx for the completely false accusation because I never said anything like that.
Your own attitude is insulting you? You said that living people were costing us money that we should just kill them and save money. Why not start with yourself first since technically we are all dying and expensive to keep alive you would be doing everyone a great service by saving us money.
Well you said that point blankly it cost 10k a day for everyone now you are back pedaling.
Is that because you are trying to promote your ideology here and you wouldnt want to talk about how thats really what the subject is about in this thread? Seriously take a good look at all of those posts here you can easily pick which ideology each poster is trying to promote. Most everyone here is saying that their ideology will fix healthcare. So this really is not a debate about healthcare but a war between ideologies.
Nonsense. I am proposing a sensible approach to healthcare and budgeting rather than an emotion driven diatribe about human value.
I did when? Not all terminally ill people would agree with your assertion and would rather suffer than to die. But then I never made the claim that you are lying about anyways, and please quit lying to my face. I prefer that dishonest people like yourself lie behind my back like the dogs that they are.Sure you did. Keeping terminally ill people alive only to suffer equates to just what I said.
I did not insult you I suggested that you should kill yourself to save us money. On the other hand you insulted me by lying to me in my face as if I wouldnt notice that you lied about what I actually said.Nope. It's your emotive approach to this argument that led you to insult me. And now you resort to hyperbole by comparing the everyday costs of living for a healthy person to the expensive and pointless costs of maintaining life for the dying.
I could quote where you said 10k but then its pointless since I agree that intensive care is expensive.No, I am not back pedaling at all, but you are nitpicking. It is true that I did not use the word "average," though. Good for you.
Hmm that is interesting since you brought up that you have a proposal for healthcare in this thread. SO what you are saying is that you can talk about whats wrong with the healthcare system in this thread and I cannot? Isnt that just a bit hypocritical?If you want to start a separate thread about how to reform healthcare, please feel free to do so. I will gladly debate you on that topic there.
Did you read the article you posted? It doesn't support the claims of The Daily Telegraph or The Daily Mail.
"Anonymous doctors?" That seems to be a favorite tact by conservative rags. A fact would require the sources could be verified.
Take away all the pejorative language in the OP, and you've got Hospice Care. We've had that path in the United States for quite some time.
Almost no one who has paid into social security, medicaid, or medicare will pay enough into these systems to cover their costs. Fact. Of course exceptions exist, but this remains fact for a majority of people. In fact, most people are receiving benefits they never paid for. This isn't about compassion, it's about math. Either the money is there, or it's not. And I'm sorry to inform you- it is not. The money to pay for terminally ill people to eke out another several miserable months on the tax payer's dime simply doesn't exist. According to a source cited in this thread a few pages back, it costs $10,000 a day to maintain someone in the intensive care unit. $50 billion a year to maintain terminally ill patients, and up 30% of that cost has no meaningful impact. If people want to think with their emotions, fine, but at some point they need to come back down here to reality and understand that everything has a cost.
1. That an investigation into how the LCP is being administered has been launched.
2. That it is alleged that some patients are being put on the LCP without them or their families being told.
3. That it is alleged that hospitals are being rewarded for putting patients on the LCP.
4. That the Health Minister thinks that despite some problems the LCP is a tremendous advance in patient care, or words to that effect.
So we should put them down then to save cash, right? We give away billions to banks, wars, and foreign aid, yet when it comes time for grandma to need some hospice care, **** 'em right?
Hospice care is not life saving treatment. I fully support allowing someone to die in a peaceful, dignified manner. Always have.
That's not what's happening here. Nobody is suggesting that terminal patients need to be given expensive surgeries for nought, just that they shouldn't be euthanized against their will to save money. In the OP people are being involuntarily euthanized to save money, is that really what you want?
That's not what's happening here. Nobody is suggesting that terminal patients need to be given expensive surgeries for nought, just that they shouldn't be euthanized against their will to save money. In the OP people are being involuntarily euthanized to save money, is that really what you want?
The story would be unremarkable indeed if those four headings were presentled so drily. Perhaps it needs more fevered imagination regarding "Death Panels". The NHS does not confirm the slanted presentation in the "story"
That's not what is happening here.
"It is clear that everyone wants their loved ones' final hours of life to be as pain free and dignified as possible, and the Liverpool Care Pathway is an important part of achieving this aim."
"However, as we have seen, there have been too many cases where patients were put on the pathway without a proper explanation or their families being involved. This is simply unacceptable."
There is a world of difference between injecting someone or smothering them with a pillow and withdrawing life prolonging treatment.
Yes, thats what they said in 2009. What happened to that investigation? It kinda looks like The Telegraph and the Daily Mail are just recycling an old story to keep people stoked up in order to keep their agenda relevant.It confirms that an investigation has been launched about the LCP, that allegations have surfaced that people are being put on the LCP involuntarily, and so on.
You ARE aware that there are cases when doctors tell a patient that he/she cannot survive, and they beat the odds and DO survive. A doctor's prognosis is NOT always correct and all-knowing, but a guesstimate a LOT of the times.
I don't mind paying for other people's healthcare who can't afford it themselves. THAT is a good use of money IMO.
You're absolutely correct. My opposition in this thread is calling for putting people down. That was the premise of the OP. Is that not what you're calling for?
Care minister Norman Lamb is quoted as saying:
"It is clear that everyone wants their loved ones' final hours of life to be as pain free and dignified as possible, and the Liverpool Care Pathway is an important part of achieving this aim."
...
What is the Liverpool Care Pathway? - Health News - NHS Choices
Yes, thats what they said in 2009. What happened to that investigation? It kinda looks like The Telegraph and the Daily Mail are just recycling an old story to keep people stoked up in order to keep their agenda relevant.
That statement is accurate, unlike the "death pathway" nonsense in the OP.
LOL Really? Isn't that like saying nobody survives a nursing home? Heck, lets just call them death traps since nobody gets out alive. meeehActually, that's a term I coined, and absolutely accurate, too. The LCP always ends up with the patient dying, which can be a good thing if it's done ethically.
Wow. Just wow. Please cite Post #s where anyone has suggested "putting people down." Can't intelligent conversations about this important subject take place without over-the-top hyperbole?
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