5th Circuit issues temporary halt to Biden vaccine mandate

[OpportunityCost]

Why do 40% of Republicans refuse to vaccinate?

Expanding on that:

"Protection, therefore, against the tyranny of the magistrate is not enough: there needs protection also against the tyranny of the prevailing opinion and feeling; against the tendency of society to impose, by other means than civil penalties, its own ideas and practices as rules of conduct on those who dissent from them; to fetter the development, and, if possible, prevent the formation, of any individuality not in harmony with its ways, and compel all characters to fashion themselves upon the model of its own. . ."

I bet you even know who said it.

 

[MTAtech]

The Supreme Court approved of State mandates for vaccinations. The 10th Amendment specifically gives the States the power to mandate vaccines. Buy the 10th Amendment the federal government does not have that power.

They were delegated to the states. There is absolutely zero legal president for a nationwide vaccine in fact there's legal precedent against a nationwide vaccine.

Case in point 10th Amendment there's nothing in the Constitution saying anything about the federal government's power to regulate the health of people.

I think the Supreme Court is going to go with the constitution on this one. At least it should if it even gets there they might default to a lower court decision.

Except it's NOT a vaccine mandate. It's a testing mandate which one can be exempt from testing if one can show proof of vaccination.

 

[iguanaman]

Expanding on that:

"Protection, therefore, against the tyranny of the magistrate is not enough: there needs protection also against the tyranny of the prevailing opinion and feeling; against the tendency of society to impose, by other means than civil penalties, its own ideas and practices as rules of conduct on those who dissent from them; to fetter the development, and, if possible, prevent the formation, of any individuality not in harmony with its ways, and compel all characters to fashion themselves upon the model of its own. . ."

I bet you even know who said it.

LOL George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both believed in vaccine mandates. Perhaps you need better role models.
That was not the question though. Try again. Why do 40% of Republicans refuse to vaccinate? This was the number before any mandates were imposed and has not changed.

 

[OpportunityCost]

LOL George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both believed in vaccine mandates. Perhaps you need better role models.
That was not the question though. Try again. Why do 40% of Republicans refuse to vaccinate? This was the number before any mandates were imposed and has not changed.

One of the classic liberalists, John Stuart Mill. I don't think there are many better role models. Read up: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mill-moral-political/ sounds like you need a refresher on what real liberalism looks like.

 

[iguanaman]

Because they chose to.

That is not an answer. Why did they choose to?

 

[iguanaman]

One of the classic liberalists, John Stuart Mill. I don't think there are many better role models. Read up: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mill-moral-political/ sounds like you need a refresher on what real liberalism looks like.

So real liberalism is against vaccinations for infectious deadly diseases? No wonder they died out.

 

[OpportunityCost]

That is not an answer. Why did they choose to?

Because they want to. You are having the classic problem with choice, they don't need to justify their decision to you and you have no place to demand it.

The question you need to examine is are they free to chose or aren't they? You obviously favor a mandate and societal shunning to force the answer you desire.

But then the next question arises, what happens when the majority wants to force you to a decision you don't like?

 

[OpportunityCost]

So real liberalism is against vaccinations for infectious deadly diseases? No wonder they died out.

I'm examining this and the conclusion I arrive it is that you don't respect the choices of others and are so selfish that you believe your political answer is the only correct one. You are incapable of even giving a glance at other ideas. I guess it is true, inside every progressive is an authoritarian dying to get out.

 

[Ikari]

I thought you libs were all about democracy and all against authoritarianism. Guess that was all just BS huh.

Like the Party of the 1/6 Sedition and the Big Lie give a shit about democracy.

lol

This will go through the courts and we'll see. There's precedence for it, particularly at the State level. We'll see what the courts say.

 

[iguanaman]

I'm examining this and the conclusion I arrive it is that you don't respect the choices of others and are so selfish that you believe your political answer is the only correct one. You are incapable of even giving a glance at other ideas. I guess it is true, inside every progressive is an authoritarian dying to get out.

So you have nothing. Vaccines for contagious diseases have never been a "choice" and but the only reason we need mandates now is because of those 40% of Republicans who according to you are refusing the vaccine for no reason other than to prove they have a "choice". I think you should at least have a reason for endangering the health of others. George Washington believed freedom does not give you the right to harm others. Our policies for vaccination have followed that reasoning for 200+ years and it has nothing to do with authoritarianism. January 6th was an attempt to install a authoritarian in place of our duly elected President BTW.

 

[OpportunityCost]

So you have nothing. Vaccines for contagious diseases have never been a choice and but only reason we need mandates now is because of those 40% of Republicans who according to you are refusing the vaccine for no reason other than to prove they have a choice. I think you should at least have a reason for endangering the health of others.

Can people who get the vaccine still transmit Covid? Whom does the vaccine benefit directly?

Hold up with that you reference, I already got the vaccine, both shots. I am talking about societal force and legal force to mandate something with a lethality rate of less than 1%. Its about control.

 

[iguanaman]

Can people who get the vaccine still transmit Covid? Whom does the vaccine benefit directly?

Hold up with that you reference, I already got the vaccine, both shots. I am talking about societal force and legal force to mandate something with a lethality rate of less than 1%. Its about control.

Delta covid is 10 times deadlier than the FLU and 10 times as contagious. Vaccination severely reduces infection and transmission which is what vaccines always do. Because Delta is the most contagious disease now known we need to get at least 85% of the population vaccinated to get it under control. We have tried pleading, payoffs and rewards to get to that number and they fell on deaf ears. Mandates are out last resort and we will make them work. The health of our country depends on it.

 

[Elmo]

Because they want to. You are having the classic problem with choice, they don't need to justify their decision to you and you have no place to demand it.

The question you need to examine is are they free to chose or aren't they? You obviously favor a mandate and societal shunning to force the answer you desire.

But then the next question arises, what happens when the majority wants to force you to a decision you don't like?

"Alcoholics drive drunk because they want to. You are having a classic problem with choice, they don't need to justify their decision to you and you have no place to demand it." - OpportunityCost, if they weren't a hypocrite. But they are, so they'll just pick and choose which methods of public endangerment need to be protected for the sake of freedumb.

 

[trixare4kids]

The question, if you were paying attention, is whether or not an unelected agency of the federal government has the power to impose such a mandate. You supposedly believe in democracy, right? Then this should be decided by our democratically elected representatives.

Every liberal who purports to care for democracy should be giving your post a like. I guess some really are authoritarians at heart.

 

[Elmo]

I realize you are quoting not writing -but that makes no sense .

It makes perfect sense.

if one has similar viral loads (levels referred to here) why are you less likely to transmit?

If your immune system has been prepared by a vaccine, it will defeat a breakthrough infection faster than would otherwise be the case. Which means a shorter time period in which you are infectious. Which means, statistically, you will transmit the infection to fewer people.

and this part -> more likely to have less infectious viral particles. (with the same load) is just gibberish. viral load is a viral load

Biology is complicated and imperfect. Even tiny things like viruses and cells. If you're picturing every virus as an identical infallible machine, that is a huge simplification. Many virus particles will be defective for many reasons. Which means that even if they come in contact with a susceptible cell they fail to invade properly or fail to reproduce themselves. When scientists measure "viral load", it's not possible to count only the "working" viruses. They just measure the total number and move on. Apparently, with vaccinated people, there are a larger proportion of defective viruses even if they have the same viral load, which means they are less infectious. I don't know exactly why that would be, but I see no reason to distrust the scientists who did this research. Do you?

 

[OpportunityCost]

"Alcoholics drive drunk because they want to. You are having a classic problem with choice, they don't need to justify their decision to you and you have no place to demand it." - OpportunityCost, if they weren't a hypocrite. But they are, so they'll just pick and choose which methods of public endangerment need to be protected for the sake of freedumb.

Driving drunk has immediate effects and harms others.

Vaccination doesn't prevent spread, it lessens impact when contracting the disease. It can still be both contracted and spread while vaccinated.

 

[Elmo]

Driving drunk has immediate effects and harms others.

Vaccination doesn't prevent spread, it lessens impact when contracting the disease. It can still be both contracted and spread while vaccinated.

You have been misinformed. Vaccination absolutely does reduce spread, for a variety of reasons. It is not 100%, but nothing in biology and medicine is. It doesn't need to be 100% to be a significant life saving improvement. Diseases are a STATISTICAL threat, so they can be beaten by STATISTICAL improvements.

Like drunk drivers, anti-vaxxers are causing immediate and long term harm to others.

 

[Mithros]

Driving drunk has immediate effects and harms others.

Vaccination doesn't prevent spread, it lessens impact when contracting the disease. It can still be both contracted and spread while vaccinated.

Assume for the sake of argument that vaccination DOES prevent spread. Then you'd be fine with a mandate, correct?

Just like smoking on airplanes: the federal government banned it because government experts have concluded that smoking on an airplane causes a significant increased risk of lung disease to other passengers and crew. So if government experts conclude that breathing unvaccinated air carries a significantly higher risk of infecting other passengers with Covid, then they can require a test or proof of vaccine.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Assume for the sake of argument that vaccination DOES prevent spread. Then you'd be fine with a mandate, correct?

Just like smoking on airplanes: the federal government banned it because government experts have concluded that smoking on an airplane causes a significant increased risk of lung disease to other passengers and crew. So if government experts conclude that breathing unvaccinated air carries a significantly higher risk of infecting other passengers with Covid, then they can require a test or proof of vaccine.

If it did prevent spread, yes the need would be more demonstrated. Unvaccinated air? YFKM?

 

[OpportunityCost]

You have been misinformed. Vaccination absolutely does reduce spread, for a variety of reasons. It is not 100%, but nothing in biology and medicine is. It doesn't need to be 100% to be a significant life saving improvement. Diseases are a STATISTICAL threat, so they can be beaten by STATISTICAL improvements.

Like drunk drivers, anti-vaxxers are causing immediate and long term harm to others.

It lessens symptoms. It also makes critical instances less likely as the immune system is able to work more effectively. The primary risk is to the person not being vaccinated.

 

[mrjurrs]

Federal court of appeals issues temporary halt to Biden vaccine mandate

A federal court issued Texas a temporary victory in its lawsuit against the Biden administration’s coronavirus vaccine mandate issuing a stay on the controversial federal government regulation in Texas.

www.foxbusiness.com

BREAKING: The Federal Court of Appeals just issued a temporary halt to Biden’s vaccine mandate," Texas Gov. Greg Abbott tweeted.
"Emergency hearings will take place soon. We will have our day in court to strike down Biden’s unconstitutional abuse of authority."
~~
i hope so.the mandate is a gross overreach of OSHA workplace emergency powers

If OSHA can tell workers to wear a hard hat, if they can set standards of handling chemicals, what possible basis do you have for saying they can't require workers to do something that is proven effective at protecting workers from a danger in the workplace?

 

[OpportunityCost]

Delta covid is 10 times deadlier than the FLU and 10 times as contagious. Vaccination severely reduces infection and transmission which is what vaccines always do. Because Delta is the most contagious disease now known we need to get at least 85% of the population vaccinated to get it under control. We have tried pleading, payoffs and rewards to get to that number and they fell on deaf ears. Mandates are out last resort and we will make them work. The health of our country depends on it.

You failed to answer my questions. Dialogue, not lecturing horse shit about how you will force me to do things for my own good.

You do remember what the road to hell is paved with, yeah?

 

[OpportunityCost]

If OSHA can tell workers to wear a hard hat, if they can set standards of handling chemicals, what possible basis do you have for saying they can't require workers to do something that is proven effective at protecting workers from a danger in the workplace?

Demonstrating to the courts that it is or is not a negligible risk factor.

 

[mrjurrs]

Demonstrating to the courts that it is or is not a negligible risk factor.

We know it is a significant risk factor. "Reviewing public and restricted data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, as well as “individual-level information on prior health conditions and mortality from case data,” the researchers found that, as of Sept. 30, Latinos made up 41% of all recorded COVID-19 deaths in the country while making up 19% of the population."

Study links workplace exposure to ‘disproportionately high’ rate of COVID-19 deaths among Latinos

Columbus, OH — Workplace exposure to COVID-19 is a substantial factor in the “disproportionately high” rate of cases and deaths among Latinos in the United States when compared with whites, results of a recent study by researchers from Ohio State University and University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee...

www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com

 

[iguanaman]

You failed to answer my questions. Dialogue, not lecturing horse shit about how you will force me to do things for my own good.

You do remember what the road to hell is paved with, yeah?

Mandating vaccinations are for the common good and that was started by George Washington. Do you even know who that is? Vaccines have never been a choice since he stated that freedom does not give you the right to harm others. As I stated we tried every other measure first and it fell on deaf ears for Republicans at least. All the other demographics came around but there is a reason the Republicans are still resisting and you refuse to state it. I know what it is and it is not valid. Resisting a vaccine for political purposes is despicable.