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400 lb. Mike Moore on the Comedy Show

The first paragraph states what I did, A Big Mac and other things are not rights. You have a right to take care of yourself through your own actions that does not include the privilige of going to college, having a job or anything else. It also doesn't have anything to do with health care.

We have a right to the freedom to obtain an education. We have the right to obtain a job. That's EXACTLY what it said - which was EXACTLY what I was saying.

We do NOT have the right to obtain these things at someone elses expense. We do NOT have the right to obtain *anything* at someone elses expense. We have the RIGHT to pursue employment, education, and wealth as we see fit and as long as it doesn't hinder someone elses rights to do those things. We have the right to earn our food and clothes and healthcare ourselves. And, we have the right to keep those things. We have the RIGHT to pursue whatever we wish. Whatever job we wish. Whatever education we wish. Whatever achievement we wish. Whatever material possession we wish. That is a RIGHT.

We do not have the right to the labors of others against their will.

How is this so difficult for you to understand?
 
I would be receiving substandard care. My choices would be limited and I would be forced to obtain private coverage to bypass the political processes that would be involved in UHC. So, I would be paying for healthcare via taxes, and then paying again when I needed/wanted something they inevitably won't cover, or I'd have to wait months to receive.

That's your opinion and the U.S. is 37th in the world you already receive substandard HC.

I'm assuming you mean private insurance, not healthcare providers. People pay into that willingly. And, the people who benefit from it actually DO pay into it. Not so with UHC.

What if they don't deserve it?

You're still paying for them in some way.


I have the choice to have healthcare coverage from my company. I am not forced to accept it and pay into it myself if I don't want to.

Even if you don't pay your job won't give you your share of the money they contribute.

Yes, I am already paying for non-working, freeloading, hypochondriacs that flood our healthcare system with menial medical "problems", don't pay, and increase costs for the rest of us in addition to what we're already forking out for them. Medicaid, Medicare needs to be extremely - and I mean extremely limited. It should be a short term solution for people, not a way of life. It should very, very limited and much more strictly regulated, controlled and supervised.

They have TRIED to do that. For instance, they put in place a rule that Medicare would no longer pay for ambulance rides for people unless that ambulance was "medically necessary". Why? Because people took ambulances to town for non-medical reasons. You call the ambulance, it comes and gets you - no matter what the reason. We are not allowed to triage people or turn them down. Do you know what my former employer's answer to this rule was? His answer was that we would put on EVERY Medicaid/Medicare tripsheet that it was a "medically necessary" ride regardless of whether or not it was. So, in short... we were to LIE on a federal documents and then sign our names to it. If caught, HE wouldn't get into trouble - we would. I quit my job with them primarily because of that.

So, a lot more needs to be done with the current system. But aside from that, willing charity is the only acceptable answer.

Do you work for an insurance company now?
 
I don't have a degree. But for what time I did go to college, *I* paid for it. I thought that would go without saying.

Shame on you rivrrat, for paying for your own college. You are such an elitist, privileged person. I'd much rather pay more taxes so you could go to college and not get a degree, than have you be responsible for furthering your own education. I too went to college, and paid my own way, without finishing and getting a degree. It takes one to know one.........
 
I don't have a degree. But for what time I did go to college, *I* paid for it. I thought that would go without saying.

Did you get a gov. grant?

And if not why not?

You or your parents paid the taxes for it why not use it?
 
Shame on you rivrrat, for paying for your own college. You are such an elitist, privileged person. I'd much rather pay more taxes so you could go to college and not get a degree, than have you be responsible for furthering your own education. I too went to college, and paid my own way, without finishing and getting a degree. It takes one to know one.........

Shame on you for joining the Mariens and receiving free health care then come here and debate against it.

And YOUR WELCOME I HOPE YOU ENJOYED STEALING MY TAX DOLLARS!!!!!!!!

there's a word for folks like you.
 
That's your opinion and the U.S. is 37th in the world you already receive substandard HC.

LMAO Yeah right. My care is "substandard". I can get state of the art technology, see any doctor I wish, have little to no wait times, and they will take heroic measures to save life or limb for me. That's hardly substandard.


What if they don't deserve it?

You're still paying for them in some way.
Paying for who?


Even if you don't pay your job won't give you your share of the money they contribute.
They will give me a small portion of it, but not all. I fail to see your point...?


Do you work for an insurance company now?
I did for about 2 years. (Job prior to this one) Why?


Shame on you rivrrat, for paying for your own college. You are such an elitist, privileged person. I'd much rather pay more taxes so you could go to college and not get a degree, than have you be responsible for furthering your own education. I too went to college, and paid my own way, without finishing and getting a degree. It takes one to know one.........

You quitter, you! ;) Oh yeah... and you elitist, over privileged scum! Didn't you know that while you were paying for your own education, you COULD have been giving all that money to freeloaders so they could get a new satellite dish? Sheesh.


Did you get a gov. grant?
Not that I recall.

And if not why not?
Cause I got loans that covered it, and the rest I paid by working 30hrs a week at McDonalds on the night shift.

You or your parents paid the taxes for it why not use it?
Why should I when I didn't need to?
 
Shame on you for joining the Mariens and receiving free health care then come here and debate against it.

And YOUR WELCOME I HOPE YOU ENJOYED STEALING MY TAX DOLLARS!!!!!!!!

there's a word for folks like you.

I didn't join the Marine Corps for "free health care" which is a misnomer because I still paid federal taxes, and state taxes for a state I wasn't even residing in.

I also did not receive any benefit, other than annual check ups which I was required to have, and of course my smallpox and anthrax shots, which were also required. If you want to bitch at somebody for taking advantage of "free" medical care in the military, you are barking at the wrong dog.

Also, since I was involved with a socialized healthcare situation from my time in the Corps, I have the advantage of have been part of both systems, and the level and quality of care provided by privatized hospitals is far and above what the government would provide....
 
We have a right to the freedom to obtain an education. We have the right to obtain a job. That's EXACTLY what it said - which was EXACTLY what I was saying.

We do NOT have the right to obtain these things at someone elses expense. We do NOT have the right to obtain *anything* at someone elses expense. We have the RIGHT to pursue employment, education, and wealth as we see fit and as long as it doesn't hinder someone elses rights to do those things. We have the right to earn our food and clothes and healthcare ourselves. And, we have the right to keep those things. We have the RIGHT to pursue whatever we wish. Whatever job we wish. Whatever education we wish. Whatever achievement we wish. Whatever material possession we wish. That is a RIGHT.

We do not have the right to the labors of others against their will.

How is this so difficult for you to understand?

I understand what you're saying it's just irrelevant to this debate and it's just you continuing to avoid the FACT that if you contribute to UHC you'll also RECEIVE it. And it can be high quality and fast. Your OPINION that it would be low quality and a long wait is just that, an OPINION. Here are the results of the research you suggested I do;

Healthcare in France

http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/cs17.pdf

Now lets not mince words here anymore it makes me think that you're just trying to avoid saying that you have no respect for human life and that you hate poor people just because they're poor and you are not.
 
I grow tired of this debate. Being teamed up on with no substantial arguments except just personal conjecture, speculation, fallacious opinion and ignorance.

I dout any of you will read the links I've posted for a second time now so here's a quote.

"To a central planner the French system looks like a chaotic mess, but in reality the mess is a pragmatic blend of consumer choice, professional autonomy, central regulation and a government-backed guarantee for the poor which exceeds the NHS standard by far. Like the Belgians, the Dutch and the Germans, the French in their own way have discovered how to universalise the benefits of a competitive market."
 
I grow tired of this debate. Being teamed up on with no substantial arguments except just personal conjecture, speculation, fallacious opinion and ignorance.

I grow tired of debating with simple minded communists, who do not respect opinions that differ from their own.

Of course, what self respecting communist does respect difference of opinion, and individualism??
 
LMAO Yeah right. My care is "substandard". I can get state of the art technology, see any doctor I wish, have little to no wait times, and they will take heroic measures to save life or limb for me. That's hardly substandard.

Same in France.


Paying for who?

The hypothetical crackhead in the cubicle next to you.


They will give me a small portion of it, but not all. I fail to see your point...?

They won't give you any of it and it's stealing from you isn't it?


I did for about 2 years. (Job prior to this one) Why?


Now I see where you are coming from.

You quitter, you! ;) Oh yeah... and you elitist, over privileged scum! Didn't you know that while you were paying for your own education, you COULD have been giving all that money to freeloaders so they could get a new satellite dish? Sheesh.

Freeloaders? How about Marines.


Not that I recall.

Cause I got loans that covered it, and the rest I paid by working 30hrs a week at McDonalds on the night shift.


Why should I when I didn't need to?

So when you were 18 you just couldn't do it based on pricipal?

I sure am glad we have the right to accrue debt from loans that did us no good.
 
I understand what you're saying it's just irrelevant to this debate and it's just you continuing to avoid the FACT that if you contribute to UHC you'll also RECEIVE it. And it can be high quality and fast. Your OPINION that it would be low quality and a long wait is just that, an OPINION. Here are the results of the research you suggested I do;

Healthcare in France

http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/cs17.pdf

And they can't keep doing it. They have had little to no economic growth for at least 29 years and their national debt continually increases at an alarming rate.

A report on French National Debt – “a very worrying situation”

Bloomberg.com: Top Worldwide

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/4588160.stm (old one, but still relevant)

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/14/business/franc.php

Go check out Canada, you'll see they're having the same problems. I've already posted links about it.


Now lets not mince words here anymore it makes me think that you're just trying to avoid saying that you have no respect for human life and that you hate poor people just because they're poor and you are not.
I hate poor people? WTF? I lived on $8k a year for most of my adult life. So what? It has nothing to do with being "poor" and everything to do with personal responsibility.

I grow tired of this debate. Being teamed up on with no substantial arguments except just personal conjecture, speculation, fallacious opinion and ignorance.
And links, links, and more links that show how UHC is failing in other countries, as well as how it would fail here.

I dout any of you will read the links I've posted for a second time now so here's a quote.

"To a central planner the French system looks like a chaotic mess, but in reality the mess is a pragmatic blend of consumer choice, professional autonomy, central regulation and a government-backed guarantee for the poor which exceeds the NHS standard by far. Like the Belgians, the Dutch and the Germans, the French in their own way have discovered how to universalise the benefits of a competitive market."
I did read it. But you haven't address the lack of economic growth in that country and their perpetually increasing national debt. They are nearly bankrupt.
 
I grow tired of debating with simple minded communists, who do not respect opinions that differ from their own.

Of course, what self respecting communist does respect difference of opinion, and individualism??

I'm not a communist or simple minded, you however are a hypocrite. I admit to reading and relating to Karl Marx but I am no communist. Are you a McCarthyist? Do you think I'm hiding under your bed?

Trying to insult with assumption is just dumb.
 
And they can't keep doing it. They have had little to no economic growth for at least 29 years and their national debt continually increases at an alarming rate.

A report on French National Debt – “a very worrying situation”

Bloomberg.com: Top Worldwide

BBC NEWS | Programmes | From Our Own Correspondent | France's 'pursuit of harmony' (old one, but still relevant)

France marks toll-road billions for debt cut - Business - International Herald Tribune

Go check out Canada, you'll see they're having the same problems. I've already posted links about it.



I hate poor people? WTF? I lived on $8k a year for most of my adult life. So what? It has nothing to do with being "poor" and everything to do with personal responsibility.


And links, links, and more links that show how UHC is failing in other countries, as well as how it would fail here.


I did read it. But you haven't address the lack of economic growth in that country and their perpetually increasing national debt. They are nearly bankrupt.

How is this disimilar to the U.S.?

It's the world economy not UHC.

The Clinton admin. left us with surplus, the Bush admin has us spiraling out of control again.

And I might add that Hilary almost had UHC wrapped up as first lady. Laura just goes shopping. Like you, buy buy buy buy buy buy buy buy buy buy buy buy and get buried with it.
 
:rofl
:rofl
:rofl

The US Marine Corps is full of freeloaders.

Thanks, I just found my new sig...

You're welcome for my tax dollars too. So glad to have all that money stolen from me so I could help feed you while you fought a stupid useless war that's just stinking up the whole world.
 
Same in France.
See above.

The hypothetical crackhead in the cubicle next to you.
Unless they're on Medicaid, I fail to see how I'm paying for them.


They won't give you any of it and it's stealing from you isn't it?
What? :confused: They don't force me to take the healthcare they offer, they don't force me to contribute to it. I have a CHOICE. If I opt out, they GIVE me $50. So.... what's being stolen?

Now I see where you are coming from.
I really don't think so.

Freeloaders? How about Marines.
Marines are freeloaders?

So when you were 18 you just couldn't do it based on pricipal?
The principal that I shouldn't take something I don't need, yes. :confused: Is that some shocking "principal" that 18 yr olds don't normally have? I didn't need welfare either, since I was capable of working. Should I have gone and gotten that too just because I could? You know... like most everyone else does. :roll:

I sure am glad we have the right to accrue debt from loans that did us no good.
Who the hell said it did me "no good"?
 
You're welcome for my tax dollars too. So glad to have all that money stolen from me so I could help feed you while you fought a stupid useless war that's just stinking up the whole world.

Oh wow, so if the money you pay in taxes isn't allocated in the way you want, then you consider it stolen from you.Thank you for backing up exactly what we have been saying......
 
Oh wow, so if the money you pay in taxes isn't allocated in the way you want, then you consider it stolen from you.Thank you for backing up exactly what we have been saying......

Actually I'm throwing it back in your face. Give it a minute to bounce off the wall behind you and hit you in the back of the head.
 
See above.


Unless they're on Medicaid, I fail to see how I'm paying for them.

I just got done explaining how your insurance company pools your premiums and allocates them to every one. I know your not that dense.

What? :confused: They don't force me to take the healthcare they offer, they don't force me to contribute to it. I have a CHOICE. If I opt out, they GIVE me $50. So.... what's being stolen?

A heck of a lot more than $50.00.


I really don't think so.

I think I do and I'll keep that to myself so as not to give anyone more ammo for useless abuse.

Marines are freeloaders?

They are when there's an unjust war on... Think of all those marines that are getting health care on your dime because they weren't responsable enough to not get wounded.

The principal that I shouldn't take something I don't need, yes. :confused: Is that some shocking "principal" that 18 yr olds don't normally have? I didn't need welfare either, since I was capable of working. Should I have gone and gotten that too just because I could? You know... like most everyone else does. :roll:

I now know exactly where you are comming from.

Who the hell said it did me "no good"?

You're now paying for something you didn't finish, you could have done better but now you're just paying for being a quitter.
 
:rofl
:rofl
:rofl

The US Marine Corps is full of freeloaders.

Thanks, I just found my new sig...

It'll also be better than your current one....

Martyrs or Marines who'll get the virgins?

Neither, you're all going straight to hell!
 
Perhaps people should reserve their judgment about Michael Moore and this movie until they see it. He addresses many of the arguments I've seen from conservatives about socialized health care in the film. Of course, I realize that many conservatives don't like Michael Moore and will have a negative view of him regardless and will most likely not see the film due to that fact. It's far easier to just make judgments about his weight rather than addressing the real issues.
 
I just got done explaining how your insurance company pools your premiums and allocates them to every one. I know your not that dense.
Everyone who gets insurance benefits PAYS INTO them. Not so with UHC.

A heck of a lot more than $50.00.
What and how is my employer stealing from me?

They are when there's an unjust war on... Think of all those marines that are getting health care on your dime because they weren't responsable enough to not get wounded.
I agree about the current war (different topic) but it is our government's job to provide a national defense. They are best suited for it. It is not their job to pay for my flu shot.

I now know exactly where you are comming from.
Uh huh... and where is that?

You're now paying for something you didn't finish, you could have done better but now you're just paying for being a quitter.
Nah, paid it off YEARS ago. I paid for my CHOICE to go to college, regardless of whether or not I obtained a degree. I CHOSE to discontinue my pursuit of a degree that I didn't want in the first place.

I didn't expect anyone else to pay for either choice. Personal responsibility. That's what it's all about.

And, I could have done better than what, exactly?
 
Everyone who gets insurance benefits PAYS INTO them. Not so with UHC.


What and how is my employer stealing from me?


I agree about the current war (different topic) but it is our government's job to provide a national defense. They are best suited for it. It is not their job to pay for my flu shot.


Uh huh... and where is that?


Nah, paid it off YEARS ago. I paid for my CHOICE to go to college, regardless of whether or not I obtained a degree. I CHOSE to discontinue my pursuit of a degree that I didn't want in the first place.

I didn't expect anyone else to pay for either choice. Personal responsibility. That's what it's all about.

And, I could have done better than what, exactly?

I'm not going to entertain your feigned naiveté any longer, you've already proven yourself intellegent enough to understand me.

And you could have gotten a PHD like my sister and could have all your capitalist wet dreams come true.
 
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