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BLITZER: Should Democrats who took money from Jack Abramoff, who has now pleaded guilty to bribery charges, among other charges, a Republican lobbyist in Washington, should the Democrat who took money from him give that money to charity or give it back?
DEAN: There are no Democrats who took money from Jack Abramoff, not one, not one single Democrat. Every person named in this scandal is a Republican. Every person under investigation is a Republican. Every person indicted is a Republican. This is a Republican finance scandal. There is no evidence that Jack Abramoff ever gave any Democrat any money. And we've looked through all of those FEC reports to make sure that's true.
BLITZER: But through various Abramoff-related organizations and outfits, a bunch of Democrats did take money that presumably originated with Jack Abramoff.
DEAN: That's not true either. There's no evidence for that either. There is no evidence...
aps said:OMG, I am devastated! :shock:
Not. Yeah--I'm going to give a lot of credence to a website that uses the name "Libertards." What a freaking joke. :laughat:
RightatNYU said:Uh, okay.
So you're claiming it's not true?
That
http://www.nrsc.org/
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/01/40-0f-45-democratic-senators-took.html
http://www.capitaleye.org/abramoff_recips.asp?sort=R
and all the other sources that are meticulously cited are somehow conspiring to lie to you? It's pretty well documented exactly where that money came from and went to, so simply brushing it off and claiming that it's a lie isn't going to work this time...
aps said:I'm not claiming it's not true--I'm claiming that I don't give their assessments a lot of probative value. I would rather read a website that provides more mainstream news. I just attempted to do a search on this issue and couldn't find a website that I personally find reputable. So as of right now, the information you have posted means nothing to me.
Dean is an idiot for making such a statement.
RightatNYU said:Check the last one: It's the Center for Responsive Politics, which has a dollar by dollar, incredibly detailed explanation of exactly where abramoff's money went:
http://www.capitaleye.org/abramoff_recips.asp?sort=R
Edit: That site is a subset of opensecrets.org, a completely reliable site that allows searches of FEC databases.
aps said:Okay. There may be nothing wrong with the donations from Abramoff's lobbying firm if properly reported. I just don't see a lot of democrats who took expensive golf trips, stayed in top-notch hotels, and had a plane chartered on their behalf.
RightatNYU said:Just the use of an executive skybox from which to run fundraisers worth thousands of dollars? And that's all we know about at the moment, more will likely be coming to light.
I'm all for everything coming to light here, and I think it's going to make it clear that very few people's hands are clean in this. Some people are going to be regretting their fervor to investigate this by the time it all comes out...
aps said:Excuse me, who said anything about the skybox? The lavish trips taken by DeLay and Ney are very unique--wouldn't you say? DeLay had a plane chartered for him by Abramoff. Sorry, that is some serious stuff there.
Like who? Who is going to regret their "fervor" to investigate this? Hey, as long as DeLay goes down, I don't care who else does.
Pacridge said:I think Dean's an idiot for making a staement such as he did. I have a feeling there will be several Dems caught up in this BS. The majority are going to be GOP, but they're in power. Who ya gonna bride? The guys in power that"s who.
I was watching a little of the Sunday morning blab fest shows and every GOP backer I saw was repeatedly pointing out "Dems took money too!" Like a broken record. So? Round them bastards up to. But just because some on the other side of the fence are guilty of this BS in no way releases those of yur own party.
RightatNYU said:Some people are going to be regretting their fervor to investigate this by the time it all comes out...
aps said:Excuse me, who said anything about the skybox? The lavish trips taken by DeLay and Ney are very unique--wouldn't you say? DeLay had a plane chartered for him by Abramoff. Sorry, that is some serious stuff there.
Like who? Who is going to regret their "fervor" to investigate this? Hey, as long as DeLay goes down, I don't care who else does.
Pacridge said:I think Dean's an idiot for making a staement such as he did. I have a feeling there will be several Dems caught up in this BS. The majority are going to be GOP, but they're in power. Who ya gonna bride? The guys in power that"s who.
I was watching a little of the Sunday morning blab fest shows and every GOP backer I saw was repeatedly pointing out "Dems took money too!" Like a broken record. So? Round them bastards up to. But just because some on the other side of the fence are guilty of this BS in no way releases those of yur own party.
RightatNYU said:http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/01/40-0f-45-democratic-senators-took.html
40 out of 45 Democratic Senators have taken money from Abramoff and his Indian Tribe clients. Some notable instances:
Byron Dorgan, the Senator in charge of investigating Abramoff, got at least $79,000 from Abramoff, in addition to using the infamous Abramoff Skybox for a political fundraiser.
Harry Reid, Dem minority leader, received at least $61,000.
Tom Durbin, outspoken Dem leader, used the Skybox for a fundraiser as well.
Hillary - $12,000
Kerry - Nearly $100,000
Lieberman - $29,000
This website has the whole list: http://republicanvet.blogspot.com/
I guess Howie should be a bit more careful in what he claims:
....except for 88% of Democratic Senators....Dean is a liar or a fool.
Or both.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0601/08/le.01.html
RightatNYU said:Why exactly is having a plane chartered any worse than being allowed use of the skybox? I'd say the skybox isn't exactly that great, because you can raise a lot of money with a fundraiser there. Stop thinking in terms of what's the best headline, and start thinking in terms of what's imparting value to the politician. In terms of monetary value, there are plenty of Democrats who received more than Ney, so what makes his example so egregious?
Hmmmm, maybe Brian Dorgan, who had no problem heading up the committee to attack Abramoff's actions, while neglecting to mention that he took $79,000 himself? I'm not sure yet. But all I'm arguing is that before this is all over, there are going to be politicians (on both sides of the aisle) who are going to think to themselves, "Shoulda kept my mouth shut...."
Hoot said:I think there's one big difference in the democrats involved...for example-
Prove Dorgan knowingly took money from Abramoff to push the lobbying requests of this man.
Besides...Dorgan has already given back the money.
AP Exclusive: Abramoff investigator used lobbyist's skybox, helped client
By John Solomon, Associated Press Writers
WASHINGTON --The top Senate Democrat investigating Jack Abramoff's Indian lobbying met several times with the lobbyist's team and clients, held a fundraiser in Abramoff's arena skybox and arranged congressional help for one of the tribes, records show.
Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., acknowledges he got Congress in fall 2003 to press government regulators to decide, after decades of delay, whether the Mashpee Wampanoag tribe of Massachusetts deserved federal recognition.
Dorgan met with the tribe's representatives and collected at least $11,500 in political donations from Abramoff partner Michael D. Smith, who was representing the Mashpee, around the time he helped craft the legislation, according to interviews and documents obtained by The Associated Press.
hipsterdufus said:Look how that statement is worded. The use of the word "and" .
Taking money from Indian Clients is not the same as taking money from Abramoff. It's like saying that anyone who ever donated to the GOP or the Dems gave money to the KKK since David Duke and Robert Byrd were members. Hogwash! :spin:
Dean rightly claimed that NO Dem took money from Abramoff. This story does not disprove this, it is only out there to try to muddy the waters.
Also where is the story in this link http://republicanvet.blogspot.com/ ? I don't see it.
aps said:It is against the rules to have lobbyists pay for lawmakers' trips. There is evidence that Abramoff paid for Ney and DeLay with his own credit card.
http://www.citizensforethics.org/press/pressclip.php?view=1247
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12416-2005Apr23.html
The problem is if someone took money and then voted the way that the donator wanted them to. Somehow I doubt that democrats voted the way Abramoff would want them to. I'm not saying it's all republicans involved, but the majority of the lawmakers involved in this scandal are republicans.
AP Exclusive: Abramoff investigator used lobbyist's skybox, helped client
By John Solomon, Associated Press Writers
WASHINGTON --The top Senate Democrat investigating Jack Abramoff's Indian lobbying met several times with the lobbyist's team and clients, held a fundraiser in Abramoff's arena skybox and arranged congressional help for one of the tribes, records show.
Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., acknowledges he got Congress in fall 2003 to press government regulators to decide, after decades of delay, whether the Mashpee Wampanoag tribe of Massachusetts deserved federal recognition.
Dorgan met with the tribe's representatives and collected at least $11,500 in political donations from Abramoff partner Michael D. Smith, who was representing the Mashpee, around the time he helped craft the legislation, according to interviews and documents obtained by The Associated Press.
hipsterdufus said:Here is a list of political campaign contributions by Jack Abramoff. As Dean stated - NOT ONE is a Democrat.
http://www.newsmeat.com/washington_political_donations/Jack_Abramoff.php
Yea, except the money that was taken from Abramoff was TOTALLY LEGAL. His own personal donations, which went solely to Republicans, are completely above the board.
The donations that are being investigated for their legality are the ones from the tribes he represented, which were given to both parties. So its irrelevant where his personal donations went.
RightatNYU said:It's also illegal to do this:
Sure sounds like the democrats voted the way Abramoff wanted them too...
What a wonderful statement...aps said:I'll let the experts play this whole thing out.
cnredd said:What a wonderful statement...
Now if we can only get people to think that way about the wiretaps, when we should leave Iraq, Karl Rove/Valerie Plame, Justice Alito, and all of this Abramoff stuff, we could stop playing the "I accuse you of everything" game...
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