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40 0f 45 Democratic Senators Took Abramoff Money

RightinNYC

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http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/01/40-0f-45-democratic-senators-took.html

40 out of 45 Democratic Senators have taken money from Abramoff and his Indian Tribe clients. Some notable instances:

Byron Dorgan, the Senator in charge of investigating Abramoff, got at least $79,000 from Abramoff, in addition to using the infamous Abramoff Skybox for a political fundraiser.

Harry Reid, Dem minority leader, received at least $61,000.

Tom Durbin, outspoken Dem leader, used the Skybox for a fundraiser as well.

Hillary - $12,000

Kerry - Nearly $100,000

Lieberman - $29,000

This website has the whole list: http://republicanvet.blogspot.com/

I guess Howie should be a bit more careful in what he claims:

BLITZER: Should Democrats who took money from Jack Abramoff, who has now pleaded guilty to bribery charges, among other charges, a Republican lobbyist in Washington, should the Democrat who took money from him give that money to charity or give it back?

DEAN: There are no Democrats who took money from Jack Abramoff, not one, not one single Democrat. Every person named in this scandal is a Republican. Every person under investigation is a Republican. Every person indicted is a Republican. This is a Republican finance scandal. There is no evidence that Jack Abramoff ever gave any Democrat any money. And we've looked through all of those FEC reports to make sure that's true.

BLITZER: But through various Abramoff-related organizations and outfits, a bunch of Democrats did take money that presumably originated with Jack Abramoff.

DEAN: That's not true either. There's no evidence for that either. There is no evidence...
....except for 88% of Democratic Senators....Dean is a liar or a fool.


Or both.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0601/08/le.01.html
 

aps

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OMG, I am devastated! :shock:

Not. Yeah--I'm going to give a lot of credence to a website that uses the name "Libertards." What a freaking joke. :laughat:
 

RightinNYC

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aps said:
OMG, I am devastated! :shock:

Not. Yeah--I'm going to give a lot of credence to a website that uses the name "Libertards." What a freaking joke. :laughat:
Uh, okay.

So you're claiming it's not true?

That

http://www.nrsc.org/
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/01/40-0f-45-democratic-senators-took.html
http://www.capitaleye.org/abramoff_recips.asp?sort=R

and all the other sources that are meticulously cited are somehow conspiring to lie to you? It's pretty well documented exactly where that money came from and went to, so simply brushing it off and claiming that it's a lie isn't going to work this time...
 

aps

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RightatNYU said:
Uh, okay.

So you're claiming it's not true?

That

http://www.nrsc.org/
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/01/40-0f-45-democratic-senators-took.html
http://www.capitaleye.org/abramoff_recips.asp?sort=R

and all the other sources that are meticulously cited are somehow conspiring to lie to you? It's pretty well documented exactly where that money came from and went to, so simply brushing it off and claiming that it's a lie isn't going to work this time...
I'm not claiming it's not true--I'm claiming that I don't give their assessments a lot of probative value. I would rather read a website that provides more mainstream news. I just attempted to do a search on this issue and couldn't find a website that I personally find reputable. So as of right now, the information you have posted means nothing to me.

Dean is an idiot for making such a statement.
 

RightinNYC

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aps said:
I'm not claiming it's not true--I'm claiming that I don't give their assessments a lot of probative value. I would rather read a website that provides more mainstream news. I just attempted to do a search on this issue and couldn't find a website that I personally find reputable. So as of right now, the information you have posted means nothing to me.

Dean is an idiot for making such a statement.
Check the last one: It's the Center for Responsive Politics, which has a dollar by dollar, incredibly detailed explanation of exactly where abramoff's money went:

http://www.capitaleye.org/abramoff_recips.asp?sort=R

Edit: That site is a subset of opensecrets.org, a completely reliable site that allows searches of FEC databases.
 
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aps

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RightatNYU said:
Check the last one: It's the Center for Responsive Politics, which has a dollar by dollar, incredibly detailed explanation of exactly where abramoff's money went:

http://www.capitaleye.org/abramoff_recips.asp?sort=R

Edit: That site is a subset of opensecrets.org, a completely reliable site that allows searches of FEC databases.
Okay. There may be nothing wrong with the donations from Abramoff's lobbying firm if properly reported. I just don't see a lot of democrats who took expensive golf trips, stayed in top-notch hotels, and had a plane chartered on their behalf.
 

RightinNYC

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aps said:
Okay. There may be nothing wrong with the donations from Abramoff's lobbying firm if properly reported. I just don't see a lot of democrats who took expensive golf trips, stayed in top-notch hotels, and had a plane chartered on their behalf.
Just the use of an executive skybox from which to run fundraisers worth thousands of dollars? And that's all we know about at the moment, more will likely be coming to light.

I'm all for everything coming to light here, and I think it's going to make it clear that very few people's hands are clean in this. Some people are going to be regretting their fervor to investigate this by the time it all comes out...
 

aps

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RightatNYU said:
Just the use of an executive skybox from which to run fundraisers worth thousands of dollars? And that's all we know about at the moment, more will likely be coming to light.
Excuse me, who said anything about the skybox? The lavish trips taken by DeLay and Ney are very unique--wouldn't you say? DeLay had a plane chartered for him by Abramoff. Sorry, that is some serious stuff there.

I'm all for everything coming to light here, and I think it's going to make it clear that very few people's hands are clean in this. Some people are going to be regretting their fervor to investigate this by the time it all comes out...
Like who? Who is going to regret their "fervor" to investigate this? Hey, as long as DeLay goes down, I don't care who else does.
 

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aps said:
Excuse me, who said anything about the skybox? The lavish trips taken by DeLay and Ney are very unique--wouldn't you say? DeLay had a plane chartered for him by Abramoff. Sorry, that is some serious stuff there.



Like who? Who is going to regret their "fervor" to investigate this? Hey, as long as DeLay goes down, I don't care who else does.
I think Dean's an idiot for making a staement such as he did. I have a feeling there will be several Dems caught up in this BS. The majority are going to be GOP, but they're in power. Who ya gonna bride? The guys in power that"s who.

I was watching a little of the Sunday morning blab fest shows and every GOP backer I saw was repeatedly pointing out "Dems took money too!" Like a broken record. So? Round them bastards up to. But just because some on the other side of the fence are guilty of this BS in no way releases those of yur own party.
 

aps

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Pacridge said:
I think Dean's an idiot for making a staement such as he did. I have a feeling there will be several Dems caught up in this BS. The majority are going to be GOP, but they're in power. Who ya gonna bride? The guys in power that"s who.

I was watching a little of the Sunday morning blab fest shows and every GOP backer I saw was repeatedly pointing out "Dems took money too!" Like a broken record. So? Round them bastards up to. But just because some on the other side of the fence are guilty of this BS in no way releases those of yur own party.
I totally agree. I've said this before--the repubs saying that the dems did it too is like Scott Peterson saying, "Mark Hacking killed his pregnant wife too."
 

Kandahar

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RightatNYU said:
Some people are going to be regretting their fervor to investigate this by the time it all comes out...
Yes, god forbid we might discover the truth. It's much better to shield the people for whom we voted from such petty responsibilities like following the law. :shock:
 

RightinNYC

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aps said:
Excuse me, who said anything about the skybox? The lavish trips taken by DeLay and Ney are very unique--wouldn't you say? DeLay had a plane chartered for him by Abramoff. Sorry, that is some serious stuff there.
Why exactly is having a plane chartered any worse than being allowed use of the skybox? I'd say the skybox isn't exactly that great, because you can raise a lot of money with a fundraiser there. Stop thinking in terms of what's the best headline, and start thinking in terms of what's imparting value to the politician. In terms of monetary value, there are plenty of Democrats who received more than Ney, so what makes his example so egregious?

Like who? Who is going to regret their "fervor" to investigate this? Hey, as long as DeLay goes down, I don't care who else does.
Hmmmm, maybe Brian Dorgan, who had no problem heading up the committee to attack Abramoff's actions, while neglecting to mention that he took $79,000 himself? I'm not sure yet. But all I'm arguing is that before this is all over, there are going to be politicians (on both sides of the aisle) who are going to think to themselves, "Shoulda kept my mouth shut...."
 

RightinNYC

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Pacridge said:
I think Dean's an idiot for making a staement such as he did. I have a feeling there will be several Dems caught up in this BS. The majority are going to be GOP, but they're in power. Who ya gonna bride? The guys in power that"s who.

I was watching a little of the Sunday morning blab fest shows and every GOP backer I saw was repeatedly pointing out "Dems took money too!" Like a broken record. So? Round them bastards up to. But just because some on the other side of the fence are guilty of this BS in no way releases those of yur own party.
And nowhere did I say that it did. I just think that the people saying "Indict everyone who took dirty money from Abramoff" aren't exactly being cognizant of the fact that we'd have about 8 or 9 Senators left. Hell, make it everyone who took dirty money from anywhere, and we'd be starting fresh.
 

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I think there's one big difference in the democrats involved...for example-

Prove Dorgan knowingly took money from Abramoff to push the lobbying requests of this man.

Besides...Dorgan has already given back the money.
 
H

hipsterdufus

RightatNYU said:
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/01/40-0f-45-democratic-senators-took.html

40 out of 45 Democratic Senators have taken money from Abramoff and his Indian Tribe clients. Some notable instances:

Byron Dorgan, the Senator in charge of investigating Abramoff, got at least $79,000 from Abramoff, in addition to using the infamous Abramoff Skybox for a political fundraiser.

Harry Reid, Dem minority leader, received at least $61,000.

Tom Durbin, outspoken Dem leader, used the Skybox for a fundraiser as well.

Hillary - $12,000

Kerry - Nearly $100,000

Lieberman - $29,000

This website has the whole list: http://republicanvet.blogspot.com/

I guess Howie should be a bit more careful in what he claims:



....except for 88% of Democratic Senators....Dean is a liar or a fool.


Or both.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0601/08/le.01.html
Look how that statement is worded. The use of the word "and" .
Taking money from Indian Clients is not the same as taking money from Abramoff. It's like saying that anyone who ever donated to the GOP or the Dems gave money to the KKK since David Duke and Robert Byrd were members. Hogwash! :spin:

Dean rightly claimed that NO Dem took money from Abramoff. This story does not disprove this, it is only out there to try to muddy the waters.

Also where is the story in this link http://republicanvet.blogspot.com/ ? I don't see it.
 
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aps

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RightatNYU said:
Why exactly is having a plane chartered any worse than being allowed use of the skybox? I'd say the skybox isn't exactly that great, because you can raise a lot of money with a fundraiser there. Stop thinking in terms of what's the best headline, and start thinking in terms of what's imparting value to the politician. In terms of monetary value, there are plenty of Democrats who received more than Ney, so what makes his example so egregious?
It is against the rules to have lobbyists pay for lawmakers' trips. There is evidence that Abramoff paid for Ney and DeLay with his own credit card.

http://www.citizensforethics.org/press/pressclip.php?view=1247

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12416-2005Apr23.html



Hmmmm, maybe Brian Dorgan, who had no problem heading up the committee to attack Abramoff's actions, while neglecting to mention that he took $79,000 himself? I'm not sure yet. But all I'm arguing is that before this is all over, there are going to be politicians (on both sides of the aisle) who are going to think to themselves, "Shoulda kept my mouth shut...."
The problem is if someone took money and then voted the way that the donator wanted them to. Somehow I doubt that democrats voted the way Abramoff would want them to. I'm not saying it's all republicans involved, but the majority of the lawmakers involved in this scandal are republicans.
 

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Hoot said:
I think there's one big difference in the democrats involved...for example-

Prove Dorgan knowingly took money from Abramoff to push the lobbying requests of this man.

Besides...Dorgan has already given back the money.
Which of the Republicans can be PROVEN to have taken the money to push the lobbying requests of Abramoff? Perhaps Delay, perhaps Ney...who else?

These people talking about how 10 or 20 Republicans are going to be indicted are kidding themselves....

And giving back the money somehow absolves him? If Ney/Delay were to do the same now, would you think they were innocent?

Edit: OOPS! Guess we can add one more to "People we know took money from Abramoff to push his lobbying requests!"

AP Exclusive: Abramoff investigator used lobbyist's skybox, helped client

By John Solomon, Associated Press Writers

WASHINGTON --The top Senate Democrat investigating Jack Abramoff's Indian lobbying met several times with the lobbyist's team and clients, held a fundraiser in Abramoff's arena skybox and arranged congressional help for one of the tribes, records show.

Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., acknowledges he got Congress in fall 2003 to press government regulators to decide, after decades of delay, whether the Mashpee Wampanoag tribe of Massachusetts deserved federal recognition.

Dorgan met with the tribe's representatives and collected at least $11,500 in political donations from Abramoff partner Michael D. Smith, who was representing the Mashpee, around the time he helped craft the legislation, according to interviews and documents obtained by The Associated Press.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...stigator_used_lobbyists_skybox_helped_client/

Unless you're going to now claim that the AP is somehow a Republican tool?
 
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RightinNYC

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hipsterdufus said:
Look how that statement is worded. The use of the word "and" .
Taking money from Indian Clients is not the same as taking money from Abramoff. It's like saying that anyone who ever donated to the GOP or the Dems gave money to the KKK since David Duke and Robert Byrd were members. Hogwash! :spin:

Dean rightly claimed that NO Dem took money from Abramoff. This story does not disprove this, it is only out there to try to muddy the waters.

Also where is the story in this link http://republicanvet.blogspot.com/ ? I don't see it.
Yea, except the money that was taken from Abramoff was TOTALLY LEGAL. His own personal donations, which went solely to Republicans, are completely above the board.

The donations that are being investigated for their legality are the ones from the tribes he represented, which were given to both parties. So its irrelevant where his personal donations went.

And it should be the first story on there, I don't know why its not showing up for you.... this site is more comprehensive/authoritative anyways:

http://www.capitaleye.org/abramoff_recips.asp?sort=R
 

RightinNYC

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aps said:
It is against the rules to have lobbyists pay for lawmakers' trips. There is evidence that Abramoff paid for Ney and DeLay with his own credit card.

http://www.citizensforethics.org/press/pressclip.php?view=1247

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12416-2005Apr23.html

The problem is if someone took money and then voted the way that the donator wanted them to. Somehow I doubt that democrats voted the way Abramoff would want them to. I'm not saying it's all republicans involved, but the majority of the lawmakers involved in this scandal are republicans.
It's also illegal to do this:

AP Exclusive: Abramoff investigator used lobbyist's skybox, helped client

By John Solomon, Associated Press Writers

WASHINGTON --The top Senate Democrat investigating Jack Abramoff's Indian lobbying met several times with the lobbyist's team and clients, held a fundraiser in Abramoff's arena skybox and arranged congressional help for one of the tribes, records show.

Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., acknowledges he got Congress in fall 2003 to press government regulators to decide, after decades of delay, whether the Mashpee Wampanoag tribe of Massachusetts deserved federal recognition.

Dorgan met with the tribe's representatives and collected at least $11,500 in political donations from Abramoff partner Michael D. Smith, who was representing the Mashpee, around the time he helped craft the legislation, according to interviews and documents obtained by The Associated Press.

Sure sounds like the democrats voted the way Abramoff wanted them too...
 

RightinNYC

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hipsterdufus said:
Here is a list of political campaign contributions by Jack Abramoff. As Dean stated - NOT ONE is a Democrat.

http://www.newsmeat.com/washington_political_donations/Jack_Abramoff.php
Did you completely disregard this response?

Yea, except the money that was taken from Abramoff was TOTALLY LEGAL. His own personal donations, which went solely to Republicans, are completely above the board.

The donations that are being investigated for their legality are the ones from the tribes he represented, which were given to both parties. So its irrelevant where his personal donations went.
Nobody cares about where HIS donations went, that's a red herring cited by the left to make it seem like this is solely a Republican thing. As is clear from the record, this is not exclusively a partisan issue.
 

aps

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RightatNYU said:
It's also illegal to do this:

Sure sounds like the democrats voted the way Abramoff wanted them too...
Hmmmm, interesting. I'll let the experts play this whole thing out. Again, as long as DeLay goes down, I don't really care who else does.
 

cnredd

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aps said:
I'll let the experts play this whole thing out.
What a wonderful statement...

Now if we can only get people to think that way about the wiretaps, when we should leave Iraq, Karl Rove/Valerie Plame, Justice Alito, and all of this Abramoff stuff, we could stop playing the "I accuse you of everything" game...
 
H

hipsterdufus

That's not the title of this misleading thread:

You're insinuating that 40 out of 45 Senators took money from Abramoff. They didn't. Dean's statement is right on the money.

If the GOP strategy is to try to bring Dems into the picture. Fine. It's all going to come out in the wash anyway. When the investigation unfolds we'll see names like Bob Ney, Grover Norquist, Newt Gingrich, Ralph Reed, Tom DeLay, Dennis Hastert, Doug Bandow and Peter Ferrara from the CATO Institute.

We're not talking about legal campaign contributions: we're talking about bribery and quid pro quo.

Another point I'd like to make is Newt Gingrich's supposed "outrage" over the whole scandal. In actuality he is the architect of the culture of corruption and the one that set up the whole K-Street project. The corporate media's failing to provide the context for Gingrich's statements is laughable.
 

aps

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cnredd said:
What a wonderful statement...

Now if we can only get people to think that way about the wiretaps, when we should leave Iraq, Karl Rove/Valerie Plame, Justice Alito, and all of this Abramoff stuff, we could stop playing the "I accuse you of everything" game...
It's about time you complimented me, you red-headed b astard! LOL :2wave:

Seriously, I think if everyone said, "Oh, let's let the experts play this out," the discussion wouldn't be half as interesting. Don't 'cha think?

In this area (lobbying), I am not one who has any understanding of what is legal and what is not. Also, my knowledge of the specific facts involved stink.

:mrgreen:
 
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