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3 People Being Prosecuted For Voter Fraud In Kansas

David_N

David_N

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Gotta love the ridiculousness over a virtually nonexistent problem.. :lol:
The 3 People Being Prosecuted For Voter Fraud In Kansas | ThinkProgress
Steven Gaedtke, 60, and Betty Gaedtke, 61 have been charged with misdemeanors for allegedly voting in both Kansas and Arkansas during the 2010 general election. Steven, a Vietnam veteran, and Betty, a volunteer domestic violence educator, built a cabin in Arkansas when they retired. In 2010, the couple applied for advance ballots in Kansas and submitted them. But at the time, they were traveling back and forth between Kansas and their new cabin in Arkansas, and they also voted in person in Arkansas. Because 2010 was not a presidential election year, the Gaedtkes did not understand that they were doing anything wrong because they weren’t voting for the same candidates twice.
“It was a stressful time for them and in the confusion they made a mistake,” Trey Pettlon, their attorney, told the Kansas City Star. “They didn’t intend to do anything illegal. They have a long track record of being good citizens.”
The Gaedtkes’ case will be heard in court on December 3.
Lincoln L. Wilson
The felony complaint filed against 64-year-old Lincoln L. Wilson alleges that he voted in 2010, 2012, and 2014 in Kansas despite not being lawfully registered, according to the Wichita Eagle. Wilson, who lives part time in both Kansas and Colorado, admitted to voting in both states.
“But I know for a fact that I only voted for one president,” Wilson told the Eagle. “The issues in Kansas that I vote for would’ve been for that general election, such as property tax … and if I voted for a senator or a representative in the state of Kansas, that would have nothing to do with a senator or a representative in the state of Colorado.”
Wilson said he did not understand that he could not vote in two states because neither state’s voter registration form was a federal form. He thought he could only vote in one county in each of his home states.
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So you (and the article) are saying that we should ignore the voter ID law debate because so few were caught?
 
OrphanSlug said:
So you (and the article) are saying that we should ignore the voter ID law debate because so few were caught?
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No. I'm saying it's absolutely hilarious that this is what happens. They find 3 people who genuinely didn't mean to commit fraud. Seriously?
 
OrphanSlug said:
So you (and the article) are saying that we should ignore the voter ID law debate because so few were caught?
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Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, a notorious voter suppression architect, is the only election official in the country with prosecutorial power. He secured that authority earlier this year, the latest step in his crusade to go after what he views as rampant voter fraud throughout his state.
Earlier this month, he filed his first criminal charges. The targets: three people he says committed voter fraud in the 2010 election.
Research shows that new voting restrictions enacted by states across the country prevents voters — particularly minorities and younger citizens — from casting ballots. And according to the Brennan Center for Justice, voter fraud is a non-issue and most alleged fraud in elections relates to unintentional mistakes by voters or election administrators.
But Kobach would disagree. To him, the three people he’s decided to prosecute have committed a “serious crime.” One is convicted of a felony, meaning he faces up to seven m
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Priorities..
 
OrphanSlug said:
So you (and the article) are saying that we should ignore the voter ID law debate because so few were caught?
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I don’t think anyone said anything about voter ID and I don’t see how it would have prevented either of these cases as reported. It does seem to be telling that after an official puts in specific effort to track down voter fraud and can only turn up these two rather spurious examples does support the idea that this kind of voter fraud isn’t a major issue.
 
David_N said:
No. I'm saying it's absolutely hilarious that this is what happens. They find 3 people who genuinely didn't mean to commit fraud. Seriously?
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I understand the absurdity of the result from this application of "criminal prosecution." It is no more or less absurd than the realization some 7 States went through in testing Social Safety Net recipients for drug use only to realize the cost of the testing programs ended up more than the savings from the few actually caught.

My issue is the core debate behind voter ID laws (mentioned in the OP article.) Yes, in this case so few were caught and it is even arguable if they would have been caught with additional law and restriction. However, there is a debate point to me made when those that advocate for ID laws are met with the response that it discourages minority voters. If that holds true then everything else someone needs an ID for (including many interactions with the government for other reasons, like social safety nets.) is a designed way to discourage minority participation in all of those applications.

It either applies to them all, or none.
 
OrphanSlug said:
I understand the absurdity of the result from this application of "criminal prosecution." It is no more or less absurd than the realization some 7 States went through in testing Social Safety Net recipients for drug use only to realize the cost of the testing programs ended up more than the savings from the few actually caught.

My issue is the core debate behind voter ID laws (mentioned in the OP article.) Yes, in this case so few were caught and it is even arguable if they would have been caught with additional law and restriction. However, there is a debate point to me made when those that advocate for ID laws are met with the response that it discourages minority voters. If that holds true then everything else someone needs an ID for (including many interactions with the government for other reasons, like social safety nets.) is a designed way to discourage minority participation in all of those applications.

It either applies to them all, or none.
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That's a good point, my issue is, voter id laws are shown to harm minorities, and they really aren't necessary. Until something changes..
 
You do know of course there are NUMEROPUS examples of voter fraud out there...right?

Heres something I find EXTRAORDINARILY comical. After claiming voter fraud isnt a problem they then set out to demonstrate "and besides...look at all the REPUBLICANS that have been caught committing fraud.." as if that someone doesnt prove the point that fraud is fraud, fraud is being committed, and 78% of the country, liberal and conservative, believe voter ID is needed.
Voter Registration Fraud
Voter registration fraud - Ballotpedia
ACORN and voter registration fraud - Ballotpedia
 
VanceMack said:
You do know of course there are NUMEROPUS examples of voter fraud out there...right?

Heres something I find EXTRAORDINARILY comical. After claiming voter fraud isnt a problem they then set out to demonstrate "and besides...look at all the REPUBLICANS that have been caught committing fraud.." as if that someone doesnt prove the point that fraud is fraud, fraud is being committed, and 78% of the country, liberal and conservative, believe voter ID is needed.
Voter Registration Fraud
Voter registration fraud - Ballotpedia
ACORN and voter registration fraud - Ballotpedia
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Huh? "Numerous examples?" Sure, you can find some, but the effects of "voter id" aren't worth the virtually worthless benefit it seems..
 
VanceMack said:
You do know of course there are NUMEROPUS examples of voter fraud out there...right?

Heres something I find EXTRAORDINARILY comical. After claiming voter fraud isnt a problem they then set out to demonstrate "and besides...look at all the REPUBLICANS that have been caught committing fraud.." as if that someone doesnt prove the point that fraud is fraud, fraud is being committed, and 78% of the country, liberal and conservative, believe voter ID is needed.
Voter Registration Fraud
Voter registration fraud - Ballotpedia
ACORN and voter registration fraud - Ballotpedia
Click to expand...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/11/upshot/vote-fraud-is-rare-but-myth-is-widespread.html?_r=0
 
OrphanSlug said:
I understand the absurdity of the result from this application of "criminal prosecution." It is no more or less absurd than the realization some 7 States went through in testing Social Safety Net recipients for drug use only to realize the cost of the testing programs ended up more than the savings from the few actually caught. My issue is the core debate behind voter ID laws (mentioned in the OP article.) Yes, in this case so few were caught and it is even arguable if they would have been caught with additional law and restriction. However, there is a debate point to me made when those that advocate for ID laws are met with the response that it discourages minority voters. If that holds true then everything else someone needs an ID for (including many interactions with the government for other reasons, like social safety nets.) is a designed way to discourage minority participation in all of those applications. It either applies to them all, or none.
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Surprisingly you don't need much in the way of state ID to apply for social services. You need something with a local/state address like a telephone bill or bank statement, you need your most recent bank statements, and recent check stubs if employed, and a listing of bills and income. That's about it. Don't really need a state ID. For example if I wanted to get state services in CA I could even with an Idaho DL. All I'd have to do is have my bank statements mailed to me here at my friend's house instead of to my daughter's in Idaho. I'm kind of one that prefers to work things out on my own whenever possible so even last year when I was here in CA but still unemployed and funds nearly gone, I considered doing just that so I could at least get EBT, fortunately at the nth hour I got hired and have remained so though underemployed and less than full time and totally unreliable hours from one month to the next, but it's enough to pay for food, gas, and insurance on the car.
 
David_N said:
Talking points? I'm sorry that the reality doesn't fit your false view.
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Rat talking points do not fit in with my world view. No. That would be a correct statement.

Meanwhile...over 300 documented accounts of voter fraud impacting hundreds of thousands of votes...to say nothing of the numerous voting machine fraud incidents in several states...all since 2011...
Republican National Lawyers Association | (RNLA)
 
Paperview said:
And all three were registered in Kansas as Republicans.
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Does this help you balance your partisan hatred?
10/30/12: ARIZONA: absentee ballot fraud
"The Pima County Recorders Office is investigating a case of voter fraud. F. Ann Rodriguez said, while verifying signatures, her operators came across a signature that did not match that of two voters, a husband and wife. Her office then contacted the couple, who confirmed they had not even received their ballots in the mail" Voter fraud investigation underway in Pima County, KVOA News, Oct. 30, 2012.

10/29/12: IOWA: absentee ballot fraud
"Muscatine resident Craig White says a Democratic campaign worker somehow gave his 75-year-old mother the impression that it was OK for her to sign his name on an absentee ballot request form when he wasn’t home." Absentee ballot issues reported in 2 Iowa counties, Des Moines Register, Oct. 29, 2012.

10/23/12: LOUISIANA: Douglas Barthlomew Claiborne: voter registration fraud
"Sheriff's deputies booked Douglas "Barthlomew" Claiborne, 30, in Mansfield, into the DeSoto Parish Detention Center on a warrant issued by the 10th Judicial District in Natchitoches Parish. The Times reports the arrest warrant was based on a complaint by the Louisiana Secretary of State's Election and Compliance Unit. It accuses Claiborne of "procuring falsified voter registration applications." DeSoto School Board member booked with voter fraud, Associated Press, Oct. 23, 2012.

10/22/12: ARKANSAS: vote buying
"[former Democrat state Rep. Hudson]Hallum and three others have pleaded guilty to federal charges of conspiracy to commit election fraud during the special election that put him in the Arkansas House of Representatives in 2011. A total of nine people have been charged by federal and state authorities in connection with the plan." Eric Shawn, Vodka for votes: Arkansas rep, operatives await sentencing in fraud scheme, Fox News, Oct. 22, 2012.

10/22/12: COLORADO: electioneering
"Democratic volunteers offered people free t-shirts and pizza for voting early and posted official Obama campaign signs within 100 feet of the polling location, which is against federal and state election laws." Eli Stokols, Colorado GOP accuses Obama volunteers of electioneering at CSU, Fox KDVR, Oct. 22, 2012.

10/22/12: MICHIGAN: absentee ballot fraud
"More than 800 absentee ballots have not made it to voters in Auburn Hills and are missing..." Auburn Hills missing hundreds of absentee ballots, Associated Press, Oct. 22, 2012.

10/22/12: FLORIDA: voter suppression
"The Florida Division of elections and state law enforcement officials are investigating "multiple" bogus letters sent to Florida voters to inform them that they have been flagged as suspected illegal, non-citizen voters...The letters appear to be going mostly or entirely to Republicans in Florida." Voter suppression efforts in Fla - against Republicans, Tampa Bay Times, Oct. 22, 2012.

10/19/12: MICHIGAN: voter registration fraud
"Eugenia Huguenin says breast cancer killed her daughter long before a voter registration card with Michele Huguenin's name and supposed signature was filed this year in Palm Beach County." Andy Reid and Barbara Hijek, Dead woman among names on disputed voter forms, Sun Sentinel, Oct. 19, 2012.

10/19/12: VIRGINIA: Colin Small: destruction of voter registration applications, disclosure of voter registration information
"Colin Small, was caught throwing out voter registration forms, Richmond, Va., the Rockingham County sheriff's office confirmed to CBS News." Lucy Madison, Man charged after tossing voter registration forms in Virginia, CBS News, Oct. 19, 2012.

10/19/12: FLORIDA: Michel S. Pawlowski: registration fraud
"In documents filed with the Secretary of State, [former St. Augustine Beach Mayor Frank] Charles claims that the father of City Commissioner Undine Pawlowski, 68-year-old Michel S Pawlowski, has fraudulently misrepresented his place of residence at the beach, presumably so that her gentleman friend, Edward Stephen George, can pick up another critical vote." Former mayor claims voter fraud at beach, Historic City News, Oct. 19, 2012.

10/17/12: MASSACHUSETTS: Enrico "Jack" Villamaino, Courtney Llewellyn: ballot tampering
A judge set a $10,000 cash bail for Enrico "Jack" Villamaino, after after the former East Longmeadow selectman pleaded innocent to a 12-count election fraud indictment. Jack Flynn, Former East Longmeadow Selectman Enrico "Jack" Villamaino denies 12-count election fraud indictment, The Massachusetts Republican, Oct. 17, 2012.
 
VanceMack said:
Rat talking points do not fit in with my world view. No. That would be a correct statement.

Meanwhile...over 300 documented accounts of voter fraud impacting hundreds of thousands of votes...to say nothing of the numerous voting machine fraud incidents in several states...all since 2011...
Republican National Lawyers Association | (RNLA)
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LOL. So all you have.. 300 accounts of "voter fraud" and your reference to the machines? How does that fall on the individual voter?
 
David_N said:
LOL. So all you have.. 300 accounts of "voter fraud" and your reference to the machines? How does that fall on the individual voter?
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Is reading comprehension a problem of yours? Please let me know so I can know how better to address you in the future.

The link cited over 300 individual cases impacting hundreds of thousands of voters. TO SAY NOTHING of the voting machine fraud incidents which involved many MORE thousands.

And you would have known that had you bothered to review those instances (all with links to the actual cases). But...I get that the facts dont fit with your rat talking points...so...feel free to dig in to that whole 'Voter fraud is a myth' thing.
 
VanceMack said:
Is reading comprehension a problem of yours? Please let me know so I can know how better to address you in the future.

The link cited over 300 individual cases impacting hundreds of thousands of voters. TO SAY NOTHING of the voting machine fraud incidents which involved many MORE thousands.

And you would have known that had you bothered to review those instances (all with links to the actual cases). But...I get that the facts dont fit with your rat talking points...so...feel free to dig in to that whole 'Voter fraud is a myth' thing.
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It's an incredibly minor problem and "voter id" is not the solution. When you discuss the machine incidents, that is not the fault of the individual voters, which is what voter id laws target.
 
David_N said:
It's an incredibly minor problem and "voter id" is not the solution. When you discuss the machine incidents, that is not the fault of the individual voters, which is what voter id laws target.
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And why not? seems like a perfectly practical solution. Despite the whining, EVERYONE has a state picture ID. You need one to cash a check, use your health insurance and a thousand other staples of modern life. Why are you so invested in covering for those who can't identify themselves being able to vote?
 
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