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2014 or 1914 - Your Preference

I am

  • male, and glad I was born when I was born

    Votes: 31 73.8%

  • male, and wish I was born 100 years earlier

    Votes: 2 4.8%

  • female, and glad I was born when I was born

    Votes: 6 14.3%

  • female, and wish I was born 100 years earlier

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • other - please explain

    Votes: 3 7.1%
  • Total voters
    42
Quag said:
True of any leaders of any govt in any time. History shows us that medieval were very violent with lots of localized wars, even when a kingdom was at peace local aristocrats within the kingdom often warred with each other, the poor as usual suffered the most. However wining a war and pillaging your neighbour increased your coffers/land/prestige etc.



And having 3 popes at the same time ignoring orders from the church to stop wars, or excommunications or anything else that wasn't beneficial to the nobles.
Not to mention the crimes committed by the leaders of the church, rape, murder, corruption etc..
https://icarusone.wordpress.com/2008/05/18/my-favourite-pope-pope-innocent-viii/\
Morals were very low in mediaeval times, life was cheap and no one really gave a crap about what the church said except the poor who were forced to pay for its fabulous wealth.

So yeah actions show that the church was corrupt and evil and you would be a fool to want to live during it's heyday in medieval times.
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There were lots of wars today. And the Church didn't encourage murder and rape.
 
Quag said:
But but the church it controlled everything the 100 year war is just a myth after all there couldn't be war when the church controlled everything! Why would the church war with itself?
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Yes, why would all those decent people fight each other? It doesn't make sense. Something must have driven them to it and I think that something begins with the letter r. Also I wonder why all those decent crusaders went of to slaughter Muslims, including the whole population of Jerusalem during the first crusade. Happy times!
 
Paleocon said:
There were lots of wars today. And the Church didn't encourage murder and rape.
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It did nothing to stop it and sometimes encouraged it. One Pope plotted with Catholics to murder Queen Elizabeth I.
 
zyzygy said:
It did nothing to stop it and sometimes encouraged it. One Pope plotted with Catholics to murder Queen Elizabeth I.
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That killing would have been justified.
 
zyzygy said:
Thou shalt not kill? I thought that the Pope was supposed to be religious. I was wrong. It's the Mafia in a dress.
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Thou shalt not murder.
 
Paleocon said:
Thou shalt not murder.
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The commandment says thou shalt not kill.Haven't you read the bible? Most Popes back in those days had at least one person killed so at the moment they are roasting in hell or so the bible tells us.
 
zyzygy said:
The commandment says thou shalt not kill.Haven't you read the bible? Most Popes back in those days had at least one person killed so at the moment they are roasting in hell or so the bible tells us.
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It says don't murder.
 
Paleocon said:
There were lots of wars today. And the Church didn't encourage murder and rape.
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Never said there wasn't wars today, though there are far fewer of the, just pointing out the church didn't control Europe in any real or practical way.
Also never said the church encouraged murder and rape, merely that those who were in control of it during medieval times tended to be pretty rotten and THEY did murder and rape.
Ie it wasn't a great time to live and your rose colored glasses should be removed.

Just curious when there were 2 Popes which one would you follow? Would it be A) the one your Lord told you to follow or B) would you follow your conscience and suffer the consequences?
FYI the answer is A because, you being a lowly serf wouldn't be able to read and would have to accept whatever you were told about who was in the right.
What would you have done when there were 3 Popes?
 
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Quag said:
Never said there wasn't wars today, though there are far fewer of the, just pointing out the church didn't control Europe in any real or practical way.
Also never said the church encouraged murder and rape, merely that those who were in control of it during medieval times tended to be pretty rotten and THEY did murder and rape.
Ie it wasn't a great time to live and your rose colored glasses should be removed.
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The Church rarely pronounced on specific wars so that's irrelevant.

And it was very rare for Popes to murder, I'm not aware of any who raped.
 
Paleocon said:
It says don't murder.
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Killing someone on purpose as many Popes did and one Pope plotted to do is murder. They sinned and are now in hell, or your church and belief mean nothing.
 
zyzygy said:
Killing someone on purpose as many Popes did and one Pope plotted to do is murder. They sinned and are now in hell, or your church and belief mean nothing.
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Killing a wicked person in accordance with law is not murder.
 
Paleocon said:
Killing a wicked person in accordance with law is not murder.
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There was no law at any time that allows Popes to murder willy-nilly. If there was then please quote it. Taking the law into your own hands and killing somebody just because you think that they are wicked is against the law as you will discover if you ever do it.
 
zyzygy said:
There was no law at any time that allows Popes to murder willy-nilly. If there was then please quote it. Taking the law into your own hands and killing somebody just because you think that they are wicked is against the law as you will discover if you ever do it.
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I never claimed there was such a law.
 
Paleocon said:
Killing a wicked person in accordance with law is not murder.
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read the links, unless you believe a Pope can kill anyone they want and because they are the Pope it is inherently legal, every medieval Pope was a murderer.
Then of course when happens when you had more than 1 Pope? If Pope A says Bob must die and Pope B says Bob must live when Bob is killed is it murder?
 
Quag said:
read the links, unless you believe a Pope can kill anyone they want and because they are the Pope it is inherently legal, every medieval Pope was a murderer.
Then of course when happens when you had more than 1 Pope? If Pope A says Bob must die and Pope B says Bob must live when Bob is killed is it murder?
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I didn't say they never murdered.
 
Paleocon said:
I don't know where any specific individual is, but the ones who were wicked very likely are.
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Yet they deserved to be supreme? Give me democracy and separation of church and state. Belief in a god or gods should be private and personal.
 
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