2012 or Never

[Erod]

You realize that "right to work" is anti-union, right?

Personally I think that both unions and management suck in this country. The unions are out to extract as many concessions from management as possible, without regard to the health of the business, and management is out to extract as much work as they can from employees for the least amount of money possible, without regard to the well being of the workers. Somehow unions and management in other countries are able to work together to the benefit of both. Not sure how to get there from here.

The pendulum swung from being way too far on management side once upon a time to unsustainably too far to the union side today.

Unions have to give a LOT more if they ever hope to pull those jobs back from oversees. The truth is, companies really don't like outsourcing; it's messy, it's complicates their internal business, and it's just a general pain in the ass. They'd gladly make less money if they could keep it here for a reasonable wage scale, and without government changing the rules constantly.

 

[AdamT]

No, it doesn't.

If you increase income for all groups, then share of income will stay the same, while actual income will increase.

True, but beside the point. Businesses make what they make. Then they have to decide how to distribute the profits. If they increase middle class worker pay relative to white collar pay, that will correlate to increased middle class income.

 

[Gill]

Another idiotic post from you. Of course share of income correlates to actual income. :lol:

What a moronic post !!!! How much I or anyone else makes has no bearing on what anyone else makes.

You are dripping with class envy and its not very attractive.

You are eaten up with the union mentality that excuses failure by rewarding everyone.

 

[Camlon]

True, but beside the point. Businesses make what they make. Then they have to decide how to distribute the profits. If they increase middle class worker pay relative to white collar pay, that will correlate to increased middle class income.

Businesses in competition can not decide how much they will pay the workers. If they pay too low, then they won't get applicants. If they pay too high, then prices will be too high and they will lose business.

However, monopolies can decide how much they are willing to pay. So a good government should try to break monopolies, or regulate the ones in businesses that are heavily economics of scale. However, most people on the right and the left agree that the government do have the job of dealing with market failures.

 

[Erod]

True, but beside the point. Businesses make what they make. Then they have to decide how to distribute the profits. If they increase middle class worker pay relative to white collar pay, that will correlate to increased middle class income.

...and then the value of the dollar adjusts, followed by an inflationary adjustment to the general price of goods, and you're right back in the same boat, except on a different price scale.

If you make a million dollars a year, but milk costs $46.89 a gallon, are you well off?

 

[AdamT]

The pendulum swung from being way too far on management side once upon a time to unsustainably too far to the union side today.

Unions have to give a LOT more if they ever hope to pull those jobs back from oversees. The truth is, companies really don't like outsourcing; it's messy, it's complicates their internal business, and it's just a general pain in the ass. They'd gladly make less money if they could keep it here for a reasonable wage scale, and without government changing the rules constantly.

I don't know how you can come to that conclusion when union membership is at its lowest level in 70 years. Just look at what's going on right now. Corporations are raking in record profits, they're sitting on a trillion dollars in cash, but they won't raise worker pay or hire in significant numbers ... even when low pay and weak hiring is responsible for the weak recovery. We've got a chicken and egg problem here.

 

[AdamT]

...and then the value of the dollar adjusts, followed by an inflationary adjustment to the general price of goods, and you're right back in the same boat, except on a different price scale.

If you make a million dollars a year, but milk costs $46.89 a gallon, are you well off?

One has nothing to do with the other in my hypothetical. Since the payout is fixed there is little incentive to raise prices. The same amount of goods is being sold, but it's being sold to different segments of the population.

 

[Erod]

I don't know how you can come to that conclusion when union membership is at its lowest level in 70 years. Just look at what's going on right now. Corporations are raking in record profits, they're sitting on a trillion dollars in cash, but they won't raise worker pay or hire in significant numbers ... even when low pay and weak hiring is responsible for the weak recovery. We've got a chicken and egg problem here.

Unions reaped what they sowed. Not all corporations are raking in record profits and sitting on trillions. Some are, and when the uncertainty disappears of what the future business climate will be, they'll reinvest. Obama makes them really nervous because they know he hates them to his core.

Business loves a stalemate. What they would prefer is that Obama be re-elected and the GOP takes the House and the Senate. Complete governmental gridlock is fertile ground for business.

 

[TheNextEra]

Unions reaped what they sowed. Not all corporations are raking in record profits and sitting on trillions. Some are, and when the uncertainty disappears of what the future business climate will be, they'll reinvest. Obama makes them really nervous because they know he hates them to his core.

Nothing is in the way NOW for those companies sitting on millions to give their current employees raisies. That's why those companies are looked down upon as nothing more than greedy corporations.

It's great you support greed, but it's just one of many reasons why the GOP is going to lose big this year in elections and not get a GOP in the whitehouse.

 

[Gill]

Nothing is in the way NOW for those companies sitting on millions to give their current employees raisies. That's why those companies are looked down upon as nothing more than greedy corporations.

Of course there is. It's called Health Care Reform and the hundreds more executive orders being handed down daily. No to mention the heavy handed enforcement activities of the EPA, OSHA, and HHS.

Uncertainty is the reason businesses are sitting on money.

 

[TheNextEra]

Of course there is. It's called Health Care Reform and the hundreds more executive orders being handed down daily. No to mention the heavy handed enforcement activities of the EPA, OSHA, and HHS.

Uncertainty is the reason businesses are sitting on money.

No, that is a the chicken **** excuse you and others like to give. There is no uncertanty cause the cost is not going to be in the TRILLIONS for those companies.

Wake up and smell reality. Fear is all he GOP has left, cause it sure in the hell doesn't have answers.

Here is the GOP answer "Elect us and magically everything will be better".

 

[Camlon]

Nothing is in the way NOW for those companies sitting on millions to give their current employees raisies. That's why those companies are looked down upon as nothing more than greedy corporations.

It's great you support greed, but it's just one of many reasons why the GOP is going to lose big this year in elections and not get a GOP in the whitehouse.

Businesses goal is to increase returns for the shareholders, not to create jobs or increase wages. We can't expect a company to give raises if it is against their interest.

But if this market was healthy, then the companies would be forced to cut prices, but they don't. Maybe, many of them are just paying down debt to have more security in case of another downturn. If that is the case, then the higher profit margin is a positive sign.

 

[Gill]

No, that is a the chicken **** excuse you and others like to give. There is no uncertanty cause the cost is not going to be in the TRILLIONS for those companies.

Wake up and smell reality. Fear is all he GOP has left, cause it sure in the hell doesn't have answers.

Here is the GOP answer "Elect us and magically everything will be better".

Maybe you should try listening to what actual business owners and executives are saying rather that swallowing what ThinkProgress tells you to say.

As to the "Elect us and magically everything will be better" comment, we tried that in 2008 and everything is NOT better, in fact it is worse.

 

[TheNextEra]

Maybe you should try listening to what actual business owners and executives are saying rather that swallowing what ThinkProgress tells you to say.

Oh yes, because coporations NEVER lie do they? :roll:

As to the "Elect us and magically everything will be better" comment, we tried that in 2008 and everything is NOT better, in fact it is worse.

Hell, you believe that a GOP president will just magically turn everything around, so yeah you do believe it :lamo

 

[Gill]

Oh yes, because coporations NEVER lie do they? :roll:



Hell, you believe that a GOP president will just magically turn everything around, so yeah you do believe it :lamo

Why should they?? What do they have to gain???

 

[TheNextEra]

Businesses goal is to increase returns for the shareholders, not to create jobs or increase wages. We can't expect a company to give raises if it is against their interest.

But if this market was healthy, then the companies would be forced to cut prices, but they don't. Maybe, many of them are just paying down debt to have more security in case of another downturn. If that is the case, then the higher profit margin is a positive sign.

Well then you and your buddy Erod need to get together on this one, because on the previous page he states coporations would rather LOSE money than send jobs overseas.

You conservatives need to quit coming up with different excuses for corporations and stick to one.

 

[TheNextEra]

Why should they?? What do they have to gain???

You think corporations don't want even MORE tax cuts and subsidies if they can get them?

 

[Conservative]

Well then you and your buddy Erod need to get together on this one, because on the previous page he states coporations would rather LOSE money than send jobs overseas.

You conservatives need to quit coming up with different excuses for corporations and stick to one.

Without business, who do you expect will drive the economy and generate the income that Americans need to exist?

 

[Conservative]

You think corporations don't want even MORE tax cuts and subsidies if they can get them?

Do you realize that tax cuts mean businesses keep more of the money they have earned? Why do you believe we need a 3.8 trillion dollar Federal Govt?

 

[Grant]

we can't all talk about the trees being of the right height, the big lakes and the little lakes that are dotted around Michigan

Well we know Obama certainly can't anyway, at least not without a teleprompter.

 

[Conservative]

Well we know Obama certainly can't anyway, at least not without a teleprompter.

The November elections cannot come soon enough

Afghans: Quran-burning soldiers to face trial
Says NATO agreed to bring to justice 'those responsible for incident'

 

[Thunder]

The November elections cannot come soon enough

why, you want Obama's re-election to come early?

 

[Conservative]

why, you want Obama's re-election to come early?

I keep wondering how long you can put up with someone apologizing for America. Apparently a lot longer. There is no reason to vote for Obama unless you are a leftwing ideologue with a socialist agenda

 

[Thunder]

I keep wondering how long you can put up with someone apologizing for America. Apparently a lot longer. There is no reason to vote for Obama unless you are a leftwing ideologue with a socialist agenda

he killed Osama bin Laden and signed a new nuke treaty with Russia and got us out of the worst recession in 70 years and ended DADT and got tobacco under FDA regulation and passed higher fuel standards and ended the Iraq war.

so yeah, he's got my vote.

 

[Conservative]

he killed Osama bin Laden and signed a new nuke treaty with Russia and got us out of the worst recession in 70 years and ended DADT and got tobacco under FDA regulation and passed higher fuel standards and ended the Iraq war.

so yeah, he's got my vote.

Interesting, thought our military got Bin Laden but obama took credit for it. Nuke Treaty with Russia got us what? You really are brainwashed and out of touch with reality. Tough dealing with a leftwing ideologue