- Joined
- Feb 28, 2013
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But it does happen.
I know, I was just making a point.
There are many who believe that fires in Arizona are started intentionally in order to distract authorities while illegal immigrants are crossing borders and making their way through the state.
Some of them died in their tents. Some did not. It was a firestorm (no not the movie with Howie Long) but basically conflagration. They are trained not to run as you can't outrun a firestorm/conflagration. It's dig hole to give you some air between you and your tent and pray.
At the time they were clearing an exit.
I know, I was just making a point.
There are many who believe that fires in Arizona are started intentionally in order to distract authorities while illegal immigrants are crossing borders and making their way through the state.
Link please.
Link please.
One of many: McCain links some of Arizona fires to illegal immigrants
Not saying this one was though. Just making a point about the high number of fires we're seeing every summer, which are trending upward.
I find this insinuating comment insulting to the courage of these brave young men, who put themselves between YOUR homes and property and the danger of a horrible blaze. Shame on you!
It was likely me, as I don't believe certification for MOST jobs should be required. You either know the stuff, or you don't. Where or how I came across the know how is irrelevant. Does it matter if a fire fighter had some form of formal training at an accredited school for such, or the son of a fire fighter learned everything from his dad? What matters is what the person knows, and accreditation is absolutely no measure of this. If you want to pursue this discussion, make a new thread.Let me start of by saying my wife's cousin worked for the Prescott Fire Department and was a Hot Shot with the department until last year and since moved on to better things. So it's big deal to my wife and her family as they knew most of them. I barely remember meeting them at barbecues. So I am not being rude, insensitive or anything like that with what I am about to say.
Okay.. two issues.. 1) They were close to best of the best but Smokejumpers are the best of the best when it comes to wildfires. But no big deal it can be confusing.
2) Weren't you one of those I was arguing with about knowledge and how it shouldn't be free (my position) because training and certification is very important? You said having an AST cert didn't mean you were a good mechanic or something to that effect? These guys were highly trained (years of it) and despite their training they couldn't survive. Yet if these guys (and gals) didn't exist and didn't have exclusive training you'd have hundreds of deaths a year from the average joe learning on the fly.
It's not an insult whatsoever, just a comment and one that should be explored. That many getting trapped is not a normal event in any sense. Clearly, someone made a bad decision and in that more towards success than safety. The question is "why?"
An analogy would be "The Crocodile Hunter" who appears to have come to believe he is just too tough to die. MOST people with a stingray spike in his chest would not do the he-man thing and just rip it out to show he's tough. Another example is someone gets some degree in martial arts and then decides he's tough - leading to some street fighter beating the crap of him. I saw that happen many times. Publicly declaring someone to be great can lead to taking greater risks than otherwise would.
Fame of being skilled and tough becoming part of a person's self perception can be dangerous. The publicity may have lead someone in the decision process to error towards getting the job done, rather than safety. Clearly that error was made. The question is "why?"
There is nothing insulting in such a comment. What would seem insulting it is gratuitously lament their deaths and then everything just goes on without anyone bothering to ask how the hell did this happen? Who screwed up and why?" Psychology may play a part in that.
would you care to argue that the number of fires is higher then normal?
One of many: McCain links some of Arizona fires to illegal immigrants
Not saying this one was though. Just making a point about the high number of fires we're seeing every summer, which are trending upward.
I'd be more inclined to link it to climate change.
I'd be more inclined to link it to climate change.
It was likely me, as I don't believe certification for MOST jobs should be required. You either know the stuff, or you don't. Where or how I came across the know how is irrelevant. Does it matter if a fire fighter had some form of formal training at an accredited school for such, or the son of a fire fighter learned everything from his dad? What matters is what the person knows, and accreditation is absolutely no measure of this. If you want to pursue this discussion, make a new thread.
wow... are you for real?
So an extra degree, and things just spontaneously combust?
It's not an insult whatsoever, just a comment and one that should be explored. That many getting trapped is not a normal event in any sense. Clearly, someone made a bad decision and in that more towards success than safety. The question is "why?"
An analogy would be "The Crocodile Hunter" who appears to have come to believe he is just too tough to die. MOST people with a stingray spike in his chest would not do the he-man thing and just rip it out to show he's tough. Another example is someone gets some degree in martial arts and then decides he's tough - leading to some street fighter beating the crap of him. I saw that happen many times. Publicly declaring someone to be great can lead to taking greater risks than otherwise would.
Fame of being skilled and tough becoming part of a person's self perception can be dangerous. The publicity may have lead someone in the decision process to error towards getting the job done, rather than safety. Clearly that error was made. The question is "why?"
There is nothing insulting in such a comment. What would seem insulting it is gratuitously lament their deaths and then everything just goes on without anyone bothering to ask how the hell did this happen? Who screwed up and why?" Psychology may play a part in that.
It's obviously much more likely than illegals being behind a lightning-strike fire. :roll:
Huh? i said no such thing. My original comment was simply a retort to the argument that illegals set it as a distraction.oh... so lighting strikes in the AZ desert are a new thing? geez I really don't believe this...!!! next thing we'll hear from the flat earthers....
Huh? i said no such thing. My original comment was simply a retort to the argument that illegals set it as a distraction.
Please accept my apology. I am very upset with some of the things said in this thread, as this tragedy has hit close to home. I shall be vigilant and read more closely, rather than shoot from the hip. Again, my apologies.
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