Really? And you'll do it logically, im game!
Libertarians generally adhere to an abstract take on liberty that has never existed.
Strike 1: Straw man & Ad Hominem
I asked you to refute logically a libertarian principle, not to generalize about libertarians. You might as well say "they're generally stoners too," you've still failed at debunking a principle.
I don't care what they do, whats wrong with what they believe?
Believing foolishly that order comes from a government contract.
Strike 2: Another straw man. I don't know where you're getting this from...
This is not a libertarian principle... nor does it represent the opinion of anyone I've ever met. If anything libertarians have little regard for order, they would rather be less safe if more free.
Heck, a dictator can provide order.
Liberty only comes after order is established; liberty via government only comes when there is a consensus via order.. Libertarians believe to a certain extent that our society (one that is where it is today because of a high level of cooperation) is one where man can retreat back in to his own personal sovereign castle and society will move along just fine.
One can be free on a deserted island, in utter absence of "order." Order is no requirement for liberty simply because you assert it as so.
Its not smart to make absolute statements that can easily be refuted with a single example of an exception.
Libertarianism is the ideology of Murray Rothbard and to a lesser extent Daniel Shays. It has almost nothing to do with the aristocratic founders who sought a more perfect union. Alas, those who adhere to this ideology think that they are restoring the vestiges of a Republic lost.
Libertarian principals are what they are, if you're saying that they are not in the same as the principles of M. Rothbard and D. Shays, so what? Liberalism isn't what it used to mean, that doesn't make any of it wrong (although many other things do.)
If you're right about that, whats your point? I don't see how that makes them invalid political principals?
Libertarians view Government as the great oppressor. Government in fact is necessary to a certain extent to advance civilization. Furthermore, Libertarians belief in a minimal government relies on an inherent goodness of man. Ideologies are like that.
Yes, governments TO AN EXTENT are necessary, the extent to which libertarians want government is the defense of their rights. Is there a point here?
None of what you said explains how libertarian politics are "not possible." Everyone who defends the 1st amendment is engaging in libertarian politics.
Lachean said:
So in order to be "true" one has to be willing to compromise on ones principles? A true conservative is one who betrays it?
Not necessarily. To deal with anything in absolutes is unwise. Conservatives generally accept that not everything is black and white.
To ignore an absolute is far less wise, some things are absolute, and to be without conservative principles makes you not a conservative.
You're right about that I suppose.
... is sarcasm wasted on you as well?
You're not a real conservative.
Of course, to stand up for conservative principles is the most unconservative thing that I do. :lol:
Libertarians believe in no transcendent moral order, relying instead on the petty rationale of the individual.
We're talking about politics in a secular government, if you want to pretend that we live under a theocracy, by all means divorce yourself from reality.
Libertarianism does not have ANYTHING to say about supernatural morals, again you're generalizing about people rather than addressing their actual principles.
So far, you've given me NOTHING. I know quite a few libertarians who believe in transcendent moral orders.
Libertarians believe that the only thing that holds society together is a cash payment.
More straw men? Wow this is getting pathetic...
Libertarians (like Marxists) believe in the benevolence of human nature, Conservatives understand that man is imperfect and that a society controlled by government or absent of government will be left to the wicked hands and machinations of power mad men.
You understand nothing, the free will to do the wrong thing is not an imperfection. Your idea of perfection is a robot, and my idea of a nightmare of an existence.
We can agree on many things. No vainglorious foreign policy. No foreign entanglements. No centralized authority.
I find anymore that Libertarianism is just a convenient place to loge unremitting criticism of society, morality and the transcendent order. These things are cherished among Conservatives as we believe that they are the foundation from with our laws, order and liberty come from.
Criticisms are often warranted, especially in regards to supernatural claims about morality; They have no place in a SECULAR government.
In all fairness, you are invariably condescending and insulting, so deal with it.
Does it look like I'm having difficulty "dealing" with your tripe? You started it, "don't start nothin, wont be nothin."
If you don't like how I respond to insults, don't open with them.