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14th amendment bars those suborning insurrection or rebellion from POTUS

Does the 14th Amend. prevent those who have suborned insurrection/rebellion from running for POTUS?


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You think the opposite of a deluded Trumper insurgent is a black man standing his ground. K.

no no

I posted what was said and that poster needs to apply it to every situation, not just the one at the capitol building

methinks that poster doesn't want to do that though
 
That is the plan.

Despite Trump, nor anyone else, being convicted of "rebellion" or "insurrection".

If the 14th amendment truly was to apply, there would have to be some sort of adjudication, not just because a few legal scholars say so. Can we at least agree on that?
There is no requirement that anyone be "convicted" of anything in order to trigger the 14th Amendment and, as has been posted previously, the 14th has been used to rule persons who were not "convicted" to be ineligible for office.
 
I agree with you on that.

A Sec. Of State can say "Trump will not be on the ballot" and cite the clause in the 14th. At which point the Trump campaign would sue, and the judiciary would have to decide.
And, since the decision is a discretionary one, the court could only rule on whether the discretion was exercised lawfully, not on whether or not the discretionary decision is one that they would have made.
 
That would be wrong, wrong, wrong. But that never stopped a power hungry democrat.

One person (the SOS of a state) should not be able to subjectively apply that without any sort of adjudication.
Maybe not, but that IS what the law currently allows.
 
I’m not a constitutional scholar or lawyer. What I do know is none of the 91 charges/indictments deals with insurrection or rebellion. Which I take it means the prosecutors think they can prove those 91 in a court of law, but not insurrection or rebellion. As for the secretary of state’s, I don’t know. But if any secretary of state did invoke the 14th to take Trump off the ballot, you’re correct. Tons of lawsuits all the way to the SCOTUS. The secretary of state who did that would have to be a democrat in a solid blue state that Trump stands no chance of winning anyway.

Me, I’ll just relax with a cup or two of coffee and let the events unfold. I do have a gut feeling Trump won’t be the GOP nominee. Nothing to back that up, just a feeling.
The fastest way to settle the decision would be for a "Republican" Secretary of State to make the decision this Thursday and for a "Republican" petitioner to apply for a Writ of Mandamus (alleging "improper use of authority") the following day.

Do you think that that is going to happen or do you think that the "Republicans" would prefer to keep on whining?
 
Yes.

Suborn is NOT engaging in nor giving aid or comfort. It is something totally different.

As I said way back int post #7, the 14th Amendment does not say anything about "suborning insurrection or rebellion".
Please look up the meaning of the word "induce".
 
CNN is a valid news source...they weren't caught lying and forced to pay out nearly 1 billion for their lies.

CNN has had their fair share of multimillion dollar lawsuits through the years.
Fox paid a $787 million dollar settlement for Dominion defamation, and not one billion.
 
If the court finds him guilty then it will be objective fact that he attempted a coup.

It should not then be up to 2/3 of congress, many of whom are his pals, to subjectively forgive him or not.

If this is how the constitution is to be read, then the reader is in error.
 
he no longer would be disqualified if it was overridden.
How would he be qualified if his name was not on the ballot?

You do know that you can't win an election if no one votes for you, don't you?

Arkansas [6ECV], Hawaii [4ECV], Louisiana [8ECV], Nevada [6ECV], New Mexico [5ECV], Oklahoma [7ECV], South Carolina [9ECV], and South Dakota [3ECV] - totaling 48 ECV - do not allow write in candidates at all. Starting out 48 EC votes down makes it pretty difficult to get a majority in the Electoral College.
 
The secratary of state would make a decision based on his assesment.

The 14th doesnt say a person must be convicted for the clause to apply, so no.

The court cannot adjudicate unless somone sues. A plaintiff can not sue until it happens and he has standing. He wouldnt have standing until the decision is made.
If the Secretary of State held back their decision until the day that the ballot forms were finalized, it would be rather difficult for the courts to hear and dispose of the case prior to election day. After that, well, I suppose that the courts could rule that the election was invalid and make everyone do it all over again between November 5, 2024 and January 5, 2025.
 
How do you carry it out then? Based on what authority? (I'd love to see it, but need the reasoning)
Based on the constitutional and legislative authority of the Secretary of State (or equivalent) to control the electoral process.
 
CNN has had their fair share of multimillion dollar lawsuits through the years.
Fox paid a $787 million dollar settlement for Dominion defamation, and not one billion.
you say that like it means they did nothing wrong....can you name another defamation suit against a media corp that is larger than that?
 
And if the person banned just ignored it? If no one (like the House, like the entire GOP) stopped him from continuing in the race? How would you stop people from voting for him and then if he won, from taking office?

How would the SoS determination be enforced?
The 14th does NOT prohibit anyone from RUNNING, it just prohibits (absent a 2/3rds vote in BOTH the House and the Senate to override the prohibition) them from assuming the office that they ran for if they happen to achieve a plurality.
 
Based on their constitutionally mandated control over the electoral process.

True, and if the decision is based on "Because I felt like it." then the application for a Writ of Mandamus is going to succeed instantly.

Or other evidence.
Indeed it seems to me they're arguing a convicted felon can run because thuh constitooshuhn doesn't expressly forbid it and because he's their guy.

Can we then just get any old convict to run? How about the ****ing zodiac killer while we're at it? I nominate Anthony ****ing Wiener okay?

The framers never anticipated subversion in this exact way . There were no RICO laws then. But they knew someone could conspire to overthrow them, thus the broad language used. Trumpies may try to argue that Jan 6 wasn't narrowly insurrection or sedition because modern courts and the DOJ have more specific terms for each act therein. But those terms broadly cover what Trump and his goons attempted.

And once a man has been convicted of attempting to overthrow the democratic process, he should be barred from attempting to do so in the very next cycle. Does anyone think Trump wouldn't try and cheat again?
 
I voted UNSURE.

But I am willing to test it with Donny Trump.
 
That's nonsense. You're just butt-hurt nobody but cultists trust Faux and the like.

If a bank robbery is foiled......
Hell, if "Bob" decides to rob the First National Bank of East Cupcake and walks into the building which used to house a Kwikee-Mart (which six weeks previously and is now being used by the East Cupcake Police Department as a recreation center) instead, "Bob" can still be charged with, tried for, convicted of, and sentenced for "attempted bank robbery".
 
That number is over a dozen. Proud Boys and Oath keepers. Where did you get the 'three (3)' from?


The article is from January. Four more Proud Boys have gone to trial and been convicted since then. Which raised the number to 14.
I googled and that was what google came up with.
 
That number is over a dozen. Proud Boys and Oath keepers. Where did you get the 'three (3)' from?


The article is from January. Four more Proud Boys have gone to trial and been convicted since then. Which raised the number to 14.
It's what (politically incorrect) Canadians (and many Newfoundlanders) refer to as "Newfie Counting", you know, "One fish, two fish, three fish, anodder fish, anodder fish, anodder ...".
 
CNN isn't a valid news source

But yeah I think if there was an insurrection / rebellion like that it would be valid

Jan 6th wasn't that so we can move on
Yeah, just "Legitimate Political Discourse...", no insurrection to be seen here:

1692659949489.webp
 
The fastest way to settle the decision would be for a "Republican" Secretary of State to make the decision this Thursday and for a "Republican" petitioner to apply for a Writ of Mandamus (alleging "improper use of authority") the following day.

Do you think that that is going to happen or do you think that the "Republicans" would prefer to keep on whining?
They stayed with Trump since the day he announced back in 2015, I don't see that changing any time soon. Perhaps once the trials start, we'll see.
 
use the correct words and there won't be an issue
You do know that "self coup" is also a "coup". The principle behind that is that a "German Shepherd dog" is also a "dog" and NOT a German Sheperd (i.e. a German person who herds sheep).
regardless, the 14th won't apply
Which is something that Mr. Trump and all of the members of "Claque Failed Casino Operator" are devoutly praying for.
 
If the court finds him guilty then it will be objective fact that he attempted a coup.

It should not then be up to 2/3 of congress, many of whom are his pals, to subjectively forgive him or not.

If this is how the constitution is to be read, then the reader is in error.
You do realize that "should not" is not something that actually applies to the actual law. The actual law IS the actual law. If the actual law should not be the actual law, then it is up to the electorate to elect legislators who will change the actual law to what the law "should" be.

As an example, prior to the American Civil War, the actual law was that slavery was legal. I agree that that was not what the law "should" be, but that is what the law was. That means that prior to the 13th Amendment it was NOT a crime to own slaves. Not only that, but no one who owned slaves prior to the ratification of the 13th Amendment could be charged with any criminal offence simply because they owned slaves.

That means that, if Mr. Trump were charged with, tried for, convicted of, and sentenced for (let's say "Insurrection") and then received a majority of the votes in the Electoral College and a 2/3rds majority of both the House and Senate voted to remove the prohibition on him serving as President, then he would be legally the President of the United States of America EVEN IF the 14th were amended so that Congress no longer had the option of removing the prohibition. (Admittedly Congress could "reconsider" their previous vote and reverse it.)
 
Indeed it seems to me they're arguing a convicted felon can run because thuh constitooshuhn doesn't expressly forbid it
Yep.
and because he's their guy.
Of course. Do you think that the "Republicans" would be taking the same position if Mr. Trump were a "Democrat"?
Can we then just get any old convict to run?
Yep. In fact Eugene Debs ran for the office of President while he was in jail.after being convicted of sedition.
How about the ****ing zodiac killer while we're at it?
If you know who he(?) is, go ahead.
I nominate Anthony ****ing Wiener okay?
He plead guilty to a single charge of "transferring obscene material to a minor". So, hey, everyone is entitled to a single mistake AND he has completed his sentence, so feel free.
The framers never anticipated subversion in this exact way .
NOVEMBER SIERRA SIERRA
There were no RICO laws then. But they knew someone could conspire to overthrow them, thus the broad language used. Trumpies may try to argue that Jan 6 wasn't narrowly insurrection or sedition because modern courts and the DOJ have more specific terms for each act therein. But those terms broadly cover what Trump and his goons attempted.
Broadly, yes indeed.
And once a man has been convicted of attempting to overthrow the democratic process, he should be barred from attempting to do so in the very next cycle.
So far Mr. Trump has NOT been "convicted of attempting to overthrow the democratic process. That, to the dedicated members of "Claque Failed Casino Operator" means that he is **I*N*N*O*C*E*N*T** and that means that no crime was ever committed and that means that he is being persecuted because an **I*N*N*O*C*E*N*T** person is being investigated for something that never happened.

Yeah, I know - "But that's STUPID".
Does anyone think Trump wouldn't try and cheat again?
The way to success is "If at first you don't succeed, try and try again." so that means that Mr. Trump has two more tries left before the "and if you still don't succeed, quit, and don't prove how stupid you are." bit kicks in.
 
They stayed with Trump since the day he announced back in 2015, I don't see that changing any time soon. Perhaps once the trials start, we'll see.
Actually they'd try and make sure that they filed their petition for a "Writ of Mandamus" in a REALLY "Trump Friendly" court so that the court would rule in Mr. Trump's favor.

That is what is known as "smart tactics".
 
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