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14 New Brunswick NDP Candidates Defect to the Green Party.

Evilroddy

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ndp-greens-nb-1.5268498

Okay, someone please explain to me just what the heck happened here. The campaign hasn't even started and the Atlanitic part of the NDP is in significant revolt. Why? Is this a rebuke of the National ND Party or is it a reaction to the leader Jagmeet Singh or is it something else? Leading the NDP has become akin to herding political cats but these moggies may have just run out of lives.

Incredible, but also good news for the Green Party behind which the rebelling candidates are throwing their support. The NDP however is in deep trouble now.

Comments?

Cheers.
A confused Evilroddy.
 

Carjosse

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It is important to note for anyone who did not read the article that these are not federal NDP candidates, they are provincial candidates.
 

Carjosse

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ndp-greens-nb-1.5268498

Okay, someone please explain to me just what the heck happened here. The campaign hasn't even started and the Atlanitic part of the NDP is in significant revolt. Why? Is this a rebuke of the National ND Party or is it a reaction to the leader Jagmeet Singh or is it something else? Leading the NDP has become akin to herding political cats but these moggies may have just run out of lives.

Incredible, but also good news for the Green Party behind which the rebelling candidates are throwing their support. The NDP however is in deep trouble now.

Comments?

Cheers.
A confused Evilroddy.
From reading the article it seems that they feel like they are forgotten by the federal NDP, Jagmeet Singh in particular, and also probably trying to jump off a sinking ship. Singh is an awful leader and at the rate he is going he may be the man who destroys the NDP, federally at least, and he is definitely not helping the provincial parties either.
 

Evilroddy

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It is important to note for anyone who did not read the article that these are not federal NDP candidates, they are provincial candidates.
Carjosse:

Yes, good point. Thank you for correcting my omission.

Cheers.
Evilroddy
 

Lord Tammerlain

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I expect the NDP will be dead or merge with the Green party in the next 10 years.

The NDP are no longer the party of blue collar union workers ( of which there are fewer and fewer each year). They have moved heavily towards being an environmentalist party with social welfare aspects. I do feel they should merge as to improve their electoral chances, the vote splitting between two similar parties hurts them both

On a side note, I hope the Peoples Party of Canada can get about 3-5 % of the vote. Taking away the votes from the Conservative Party
 

Carjosse

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I expect the NDP will be dead or merge with the Green party in the next 10 years.

The NDP are no longer the party of blue collar union workers ( of which there are fewer and fewer each year). They have moved heavily towards being an environmentalist party with social welfare aspects. I do feel they should merge as to improve their electoral chances, the vote splitting between two similar parties hurts them both

On a side note, I hope the Peoples Party of Canada can get about 3-5 % of the vote. Taking away the votes from the Conservative Party
They lost their niche after the passing of Jack Layton. Most of their core has switched to either Conservatives in the West or Liberals in the East.
 

Surrealistik

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ndp-greens-nb-1.5268498

Okay, someone please explain to me just what the heck happened here. The campaign hasn't even started and the Atlanitic part of the NDP is in significant revolt. Why? Is this a rebuke of the National ND Party or is it a reaction to the leader Jagmeet Singh or is it something else? Leading the NDP has become akin to herding political cats but these moggies may have just run out of lives.

Incredible, but also good news for the Green Party behind which the rebelling candidates are throwing their support. The NDP however is in deep trouble now.

Comments?

Cheers.
A confused Evilroddy.
Personally I feel it's a step in the right direction.

NDP and Green should join forces/resources and consolidate the left vote as the Alliance and Conservatives did among the right when they formed the PCs, preferably under better leadership.

Right now the two parties are too similar to each other, and cannibalize each other's votes and base, thus robbing the Canadian left of power it might otherwise enjoy.
 
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Evilroddy

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Personally I feel it's a step in the right direction.

NDP and Green should join forces/resources and consolidate the left vote as the Alliance and Conservatives did among the right when they formed the PCs, preferably under better leadership.

Right now the two parties are too similar to each other, and cannibalize each other's votes and base, thus robbing the Canadian left of power it might otherwise enjoy.
Surrealistik:

Accentuating the positive, I see. But in the long run you're probably right.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 

Evilroddy

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I expect the NDP will be dead or merge with the Green party in the next 10 years.

The NDP are no longer the party of blue collar union workers ( of which there are fewer and fewer each year). They have moved heavily towards being an environmentalist party with social welfare aspects. I do feel they should merge as to improve their electoral chances, the vote splitting between two similar parties hurts them both

On a side note, I hope the Peoples Party of Canada can get about 3-5 % of the vote. Taking away the votes from the Conservative Party
Lord Tammerlaain:

Maxine Bernier has a dark and dangerous side in my opinion, so the less well the PPC does, the better in my opinion. His recent Twitter attack on the 16 year old climate activist Greta Thunberg is only the most recent demonstration of this. He's a wolf in sheeps clothing and we are all the lambs.

I would prefer to let Andrew Scheer's sparkling charisma lose the election for the Tories all by itself. The problem for me is I want Justin Trudeau gone too, so I don't see a good end to this election, no matter which way it breaks. We need a corruption resistant centrist party and we don't have one. Paul Martin was the last good Liberal PM we had in my opinion, even considering the Canada Steamship Lines question which dogged Martin.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 

Surrealistik

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Lord Tammerlaain:

Maxine Bernier has a dark and dangerous side in my opinion, so the less well the PPC does, the better in my opinion. His recent Twitter attack on the 16 year old climate activist Greta Thunberg is only the most recent demonstration of this. He's a wolf in sheeps clothing and we are all the lambs.

I would prefer to let Andrew Scheer's sparkling charisma lose the election for the Tories all by itself. The problem for me is I want Justin Trudeau gone too, so I don't see a good end to this election, no matter which way it breaks. We need a corruption resistant centrist party and we don't have one. Paul Martin was the last good Liberal PM we had in my opinion, even considering the Canada Steamship Lines question which dogged Martin.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
So long as the Liberals and Conservatives alike bathe in the money of mega donors (typically corporations and the wealthy), neither will be free of corruption, and neither will be truly representative of the Canadian populace, so good luck getting your 'corruption resistant centrists'. The Americanization of Canadian politics has certainly come a long way in a relatively short period of time. Trudeau had his chance to reverse the Conservative cancellation of the public vote subsidy, which was obviously done with the intent of making our political parties all but wholly reliant on and beholden to said mega donors (and thus economically right leaning) outside of broad, Sanders like grass roots donations, and chose not to for the sake of political expediency. Likewise, he reneged for the same reason on implementing the recommendations of his own advisory committee regarding democratic reform.


Surrealistik:

Accentuating the positive, I see. But in the long run you're probably right.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Nah, I'm just a realist.

The divide between the NDP and Green party is both pointless and mutually deleterious; this is a position I've actually held for a long time.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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Lord Tammerlaain:

Maxine Bernier has a dark and dangerous side in my opinion, so the less well the PPC does, the better in my opinion. His recent Twitter attack on the 16 year old climate activist Greta Thunberg is only the most recent demonstration of this. He's a wolf in sheeps clothing and we are all the lambs.

I would prefer to let Andrew Scheer's sparkling charisma lose the election for the Tories all by itself. The problem for me is I want Justin Trudeau gone too, so I don't see a good end to this election, no matter which way it breaks. We need a corruption resistant centrist party and we don't have one. Paul Martin was the last good Liberal PM we had in my opinion, even considering the Canada Steamship Lines question which dogged Martin.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Regarding Bernier

I expect he is a racist pig, a free marketeer when it supports his cronies and authoritarian in most others. If he was ever to get real power I expect Canada would be in serious trouble.

The main reason for my statement was to have that party pull the extremists out of the Conservative party, allowing it to move towards the center (not needing to placate racist pigs or ultra religious voters)

It is the racist pigs that make me hesitant to support any conservative party in Canada (and the ultra religious parts of it) If they were out of the party I could support the Con parties again
 

Lord Tammerlain

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So long as the Liberals and Conservatives alike bathe in the money of mega donors (typically corporations and the wealthy), neither will be free of corruption, and neither will be truly representative of the Canadian populace, so good luck getting your 'corruption resistant centrists'. The Americanization of Canadian politics has certainly come a long way in a relatively short period of time. Trudeau had his chance to reverse the Conservative cancellation of the public vote subsidy, which was obviously done with the intent of making our political parties all but wholly reliant on and beholden to said mega donors (and thus economically right leaning) outside of broad, Sanders like grass roots donations, and chose not to for the sake of political expediency. Likewise, he reneged for the same reason on implementing the recommendations of his own advisory committee regarding democratic reform.




Nah, I'm just a realist.

The divide between the NDP and Green party is both pointless and mutually deleterious; this is a position I've actually held for a long time.
I like what the Alberta NDP did in banning all large organizations from making political donations to the parties. Kenny of course violated this and I hope gets in trouble over it
 

Carjosse

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I like what the Alberta NDP did in banning all large organizations from making political donations to the parties. Kenny of course violated this and I hope gets in trouble over it
They are banned at the federal level as well, all organizations are, and the limit is $1500. Every province should have the same at minimum, Quebec goes even further and limits donations to $100.
 
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Jetboogieman

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They lost their niche after the passing of Jack Layton. Most of their core has switched to either Conservatives in the West or Liberals in the East.
Jack was the NDP.

Had he lived, there is a very good chance he may have been the PM today.

I do miss Jack, I feel like he was a very rare breed of genuinely good politician and I was pretty choked up at his passing.
 

Carjosse

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Jack was the NDP.

Had he lived, there is a very good chance he may have been the PM today.

I do miss Jack, I feel like he was a very rare breed of genuinely good politician and I was pretty choked up at his passing.
Layton was the reason I voted NDP in my first ever provincial and federal election (it also helped that the NDP candidate was the only one I got to meet), he was a man to believe in. Even though he died I felt maybe the party would continue on his course. I liked Trudeau as well and after 2015 I realized the NDP has no future and now I am solidly a Trudeau/Liberal supporter.

And this year will be the first time I get to vote outside of a Conservative stronghold riding, my home riding was part of the one Ontario riding that Chretien did not win in 1993 and went Reform, that is how solidly Conservative it is.
 
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Jetboogieman

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Layton was the reason I voted NDP in my first ever provincial and federal election (it also helped that the NDP candidate was the only one I got to meet), he was a man to believe in. Even though he died I felt maybe the party would continue on his course. I liked Trudeau as well and after 2015 I realized the NDP has no future and now I am solidly a Trudeau/Liberal supporter.

And this year will be the first time I get to vote outside of a Conservative stronghold riding, my home riding was part of the one Ontario riding that Chretien did not win in 1993 and went Reform, that is how solidly Conservative it is.
My riding ain't gonna change from blue anytime soon, one thing I do massively fault Trudeau with was failing to deliver election reform, I wouldn't in turn switch to NDP or PC, got no but my vote counts for nothing this election and he failed spectacularly on that one.

He did deliver legalization albeit, I'm not entirely happy with the provinces getting too much say on it in the sense that, the patchwork of legislation makes for some weird discrepancies in terms of where one can consume and that nonsense, I would have liked to have seen a bit more of a Federal framework, I mean the alcohol laws across the country are weird enough as it is.
 

Surrealistik

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They are banned at the federal level as well, all organizations are, and the limit is $1500. Every province should have the same at minimum, Quebec goes even further and limits donations to $100.
Bundling is still a big problem as is paid lobbying. Our electoral finance situation is certainly better off than American de-facto plutocracy where there are literally no limits on political spending, but it's definitely in a bad way with the elimination of the public vote subsidy, the outcome of which has been as predictable as it is unfortunate.

Layton was the reason I voted NDP in my first ever provincial and federal election (it also helped that the NDP candidate was the only one I got to meet), he was a man to believe in. Even though he died I felt maybe the party would continue on his course. I liked Trudeau as well and after 2015 I realized the NDP has no future and now I am solidly a Trudeau/Liberal supporter.

And this year will be the first time I get to vote outside of a Conservative stronghold riding, my home riding was part of the one Ontario riding that Chretien did not win in 1993 and went Reform, that is how solidly Conservative it is.
I'm not sure on what basis you disqualify the NDP from having a future; certainly Trudeau, being a self-serving cater of corporations and monied interests to the point of explicit corruption and violation of the law, is no evidence of that.

Moreover, the NDP didn't really change course so much as it lacked leadership of the same calibre.
 

Carjosse

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My riding ain't gonna change from blue anytime soon, one thing I do massively fault Trudeau with was failing to deliver election reform, I wouldn't in turn switch to NDP or PC, got no but my vote counts for nothing this election and he failed spectacularly on that one.

He did deliver legalization albeit, I'm not entirely happy with the provinces getting too much say on it in the sense that, the patchwork of legislation makes for some weird discrepancies in terms of where one can consume and that nonsense, I would have liked to have seen a bit more of a Federal framework, I mean the alcohol laws across the country are weird enough as it is.
I would not be sour about the electoral reform because I doubt it would have ever happened in the first place. BC tried it, and failed. My assumption is a similar thing would have happened federally. And if it got defeated that would probably be the end of the matter, but because it was not defeated federally there can still be more discussion on it and maybe create more support for it in the future. It would also have been a major embarrassment for the Liberals if it failed.
 

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I would not be sour about the electoral reform because I doubt it would have ever happened in the first place. BC tried it, and failed. My assumption is a similar thing would have happened federally. And if it got defeated that would probably the end of the matter, but because it was not defeated federally there can still be more discussion on it and maybe create more support for it in the future. It would also have been a major embarrassment for the Liberals if it failed.
Trudeau was solely and explicitly the one who killed it, and for reasons of raw political expediency; because he felt that the Liberal party (and its benefactors) benefited more from the status quo than from the system recommended by his own advisory committee (and if you want to talk embarrassing, this ended up as being a major embarrassment). Don't try to spin this, it just looks bad.
 
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Jetboogieman

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I would not be sour about the electoral reform because I doubt it would have ever happened in the first place. BC tried it, and failed. My assumption is a similar thing would have happened federally. And if it got defeated that would probably be the end of the matter, but because it was not defeated federally there can still be more discussion on it and maybe create more support for it in the future. It would also have been a major embarrassment for the Liberals if it failed.
I dunno man, it was pretty embarrassing how it was handled anyway and he just let it fly into the wind without really fighting for it.

Was a big deal for me man that I was severely let down by.
 

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I dunno man, it was pretty embarrassing how it was handled anyway and he just let it fly into the wind without really fighting for it.

Was a big deal for me man that I was severely let down by.
Well of course he did; he killed it after all.

Why would he champion something he explicitly sought to terminate?
 

Carjosse

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Bundling is still a big problem as is paid lobbying. Our electoral finance situation is certainly better off than American de-facto plutocracy where there are literally no limits on political spending, but it's definitely in a bad way with the elimination of the public vote subsidy, the outcome of which has been as predictable as it is unfortunate.



I'm not sure on what basis you disqualify the NDP from having a future; certainly Trudeau, being a self-serving cater of corporations and monied interests to the point of explicit corruption and violation of the law, is no evidence of that.

Moreover, the NDP didn't really change course so much as it lacked leadership of the same calibre.
I never said that was be all end all, I agree that more needs to be done but that should be the minimum baseline.

The NDP have no one left to bring the party forward, Layton was the visionary, Mulcair at least knew what he was doing, but Singh is overseeing the party coming apart at the seams and doing nothing about it. Singh is a failure. The leader makes the party. The NDP has lost their base, like was said earlier in the thread they are now competing with the Green party for that niche. They need another visionary but there is no one to fill that role.
 

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I dunno man, it was pretty embarrassing how it was handled anyway and he just let it fly into the wind without really fighting for it.

Was a big deal for me man that I was severely let down by.
Because I think they quickly saw it was a losing battle. Too much risk for little to no reward. I think we will have to wait for some provinces to adopt it first before we can see a federal debate about it. Quebec might have it soon if the CAQ gets their way.
 

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I never said that was be all end all, I agree that more needs to be done but that should be the minimum baseline.
Trudeau had every opportunity to engage in campaign finance reform and improve the system the Conservatives left so egregiously damaged and utterly failed to do so. He's not interested because he knows the system as it exists benefits the Liberal party as it exists, and handicaps its opponents among the left.

The NDP have no one left to bring the party forward, Layton was the visionary, Mulcair at least knew what he was doing, but Singh is overseeing the party coming apart at the seams and doing nothing about it. Singh is a failure. The leader makes the party. The NDP has lost their base, like was said earlier in the thread they are now competing with the Green party for that niche. They need another visionary but there is no one to fill that role.
Mulcair was a fraud and a joke: under his direction, the NDP absolutely would have materially changed course from Layton's direction. In fact, he and his laughable 'balanced budgets in the face of recession' neoliberal platform, was explicitly the reason I and many other NDP voted for the Liberals over our own party; because the Liberals were the only real left leaning option in the entire ****ing election thanks to his horrid, treacherous leadership. If Mulcair is your notion of a politico who knows what he's doing, I suppose that explains your stalwart commitment to Trudeau despite his obvious missteps. Incidentally, this was also one of the major and foremost reasons Mulcair was expelled as leader. Singh's election was a return to ideological form and principle, but it was also a hand over of the reins to someone inexperienced, uninspiring and unqualified.

I absolutely agree that the NDP and Green are cannibalizing each other, are splitting the left base, and have been for some time, which is precisely why they should merge as the Conservatives did; hopefully if and when they realize this and act on the knowledge, a new Sanders/Layton like driving force will come along.
 
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Because I think they quickly saw it was a losing battle. Too much risk for little to no reward. I think we will have to wait for some provinces to adopt it first before we can see a federal debate about it. Quebec might have it soon if the CAQ gets their way.
How would it be a losing battle when he had a majority and democratic reform at the time had strong majoritarian support?

Your rationalizations don't stick; this was done for crass, self-serving reasons of political expedience. His committee didn't give him the answers he wanted so he flipped the table and walked away.
 
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