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12 Years is looking more and more realistic

Except a fossil fuel power plant can run on man made carbon neutral fuels just as easily.

Thats fair enough if you believe that the potential carbon neutrality of our species will have any consequence whatsoever to our temperatures (statistically and empirically I don't see any evidence of how it can) otherwise its just another expensive anal gazing exercise. :(
 
Thats fair enough if you believe that the potential carbon neutrality of our species will have any consequence whatsoever to our temperatures (statistically and empirically I don't see any evidence of how it can) otherwise its just another expensive anal gazing exercise. :(

Recycled denier talking point. *YAWN*
 
Thats fair enough if you believe that the potential carbon neutrality of our species will have any consequence whatsoever to our temperatures (statistically and empirically I don't see any evidence of how it can) otherwise its just another expensive anal gazing exercise. :(
The exercise is necessary if we are to move to a sustainable future where everyone alive can enjoy a first world lifestyle, should they choose to.
 
I an not sure they exist. Don't they all require some kind of carbon exchange strategy?
The carbon exchange is when the fuel is made, CO2 is harvested from the atmosphere, so when the fuel is burned, the net emission is zero!
 
There are a few companies trying to develop a fusion reactor. One of them is here in San Diego.
They say they're close. I hope so.
That's really the only way to kill fossil fuels.
What I am saying is that the sun is a huge fusion reactor and almost all the energy ever available on earth came from it, (except nuclear). I would think improving the direct access to its energy would be the best place for our investment. We have been using the suns energy stored in carbon for our civilization but that is becoming a problem.
 
The carbon exchange is when the fuel is made, CO2 is harvested from the atmosphere, so when the fuel is burned, the net emission is zero!
How is the energy produced that is used to harvest the CO2? This seems like a perpetual motion machine.
 
How is the energy produced that is used to harvest the CO2? This seems like a perpetual motion machine.
No, energy output is less than energy input.

It's carbon neutral. Not energy neutral.

The idea is we can still use hydrocarbons without adding CO2 to the atmosphere. We already have an infrastructure to move oil and gas. This is likely our best transition to future energy types. More wind and solar can be built to cover 24/7/365 electricity needs and the excess power from wind and solar can be used to make the liquid fuel for transportation.
 
No, energy output is less than energy input.

It's carbon neutral. Not energy neutral.

The idea is we can still use hydrocarbons without adding CO2 to the atmosphere. We already have an infrastructure to move oil and gas. This is likely our best transition to future energy types. More wind and solar can be built to cover 24/7/365 electricity needs and the excess power from wind and solar can be used to make the liquid fuel for transportation.
I still don't understand how we can use energy from carbon based fuels to remove carbon from the atmosphere and still have enough energy left to store and use to do work like power cars or households. If you are talking about a fazing out of carbon fuels then yes I understand that.
 
I still don't understand how we can use energy from carbon based fuels to remove carbon from the atmosphere and still have enough energy left to store and use to do work like power cars or households. If you are talking about a fazing out of carbon fuels then yes I understand that.
Wind and solar power.
 
Wind and solar power.
OK. This is usually not made plain. This is a short term way to mitigate carbon release by exchanging it with carbon neutral energy production. Of course it means that we can only reduce the increase in carbon by increasing carbon neutral energy production. And we can only reduce total carbon in the atmosphere by being totally carbon neutral and having enough excess energy to actively remove carbon. Do you agree?
 
OK. This is usually not made plain. This is a short term way to mitigate carbon release by exchanging it with carbon neutral energy production. Of course it means that we can only reduce the increase in carbon by increasing carbon neutral energy production. And we can only reduce total carbon in the atmosphere by being totally carbon neutral and having enough excess energy to actively remove carbon. Do you agree?
Quite frankly, I don't care if we increase CO2 in the air or not. I was just trying to explain the concept. This idea would at least reduce the CO2 we put in the atmosphere.

If we made such conversion plants, they could capture the emissions of the current fossil fuel plants we have, and then reconvert the captured CO2 back to fuel.

I prefer the energy storage idea of over building solar capacity, then converting water to hydrogen with the excess electricity. Hydrogen can be mixed in our natural gas lines, or used as storage. If stored, electricity can be made for peak loads using fuel cells.
 
Quite frankly, I don't care if we increase CO2 in the air or not. I was just trying to explain the concept. This idea would at least reduce the CO2 we put in the atmosphere.

If we made such conversion plants, they could capture the emissions of the current fossil fuel plants we have, and then reconvert the captured CO2 back to fuel.

I prefer the energy storage idea of over building solar capacity, then converting water to hydrogen with the excess electricity. Hydrogen can be mixed in our natural gas lines, or used as storage. If stored, electricity can be made for peak loads using fuel cells.
I think soon millions and eventually a billion electric car batteries will be able to store energy while parked at work or at home, (perhaps even in shopping parking lots). This energy will be stored and tapped to distribute our electric grid locally and allow efficient on-demand delivery of energy. That infrastructure is being planned and implemented now. Energy production will require fossil fuel generation support until we increase carbon free generation to supplant it. But in the meantime carbon fuel power generation will be localized and can be scrubbed and millions of cars will not be spewing exhausts everywhere.
 
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The exercise is necessary if we are to move to a sustainable future where everyone alive can enjoy a first world lifestyle, should they choose to.

By putting that lifestyle ever further beyond the affordable reach of the poorest ?

Many of those impoverished lifestyles need addressed now not in some nebulous idealised futureworld. Thats where the squandered AGW trillions need to be diverted and providing cheap fossil fueled energy is the key
 
By putting that lifestyle ever further beyond the affordable reach of the poorest ?

Many of those impoverished lifestyles need addressed now not in some nebulous idealised futureworld. Thats where the squandered AGW trillions need to be diverted and providing cheap fossil fueled energy is the key
Electric cars will soon be half the price of gas powered cars and will be superior in everyway. That will be a significant boost to the economy and raise the standard of living.
 
By putting that lifestyle ever further beyond the affordable reach of the poorest ?

Many of those impoverished lifestyles need addressed now not in some nebulous idealised futureworld. Thats where the squandered AGW trillions need to be diverted and providing cheap fossil fueled energy is the key

Recycled denier talking point.
 
Electric cars will soon be half the price of gas powered cars and will be superior in everyway. That will be a significant boost to the economy and raise the standard of living.

Nonsense. The huge environmental impact of their manufacture make them eco tokenism for the few trendy virtue signalling westerners that can afford them nothing more :(
 
Nonsense. The huge environmental impact of their manufacture make them eco tokenism for the few trendy virtue signalling westerners that can afford them nothing more :(
All the major automobile manufactures do not agree. Please cite any recent information from them that disputes that.
 
Guys, fusion is the only way.
We need power, big power, to run the country. The EVs, factories, home electric needs. Fusion is the only way. All else is a waste of time.
 
Guys, fusion is the only way.
We need power, big power, to run the country. The EVs, factories, home electric needs. Fusion is the only way. All else is a waste of time.
Yes. The sun generates all the energy we will ever need. We just have to develop the tech. to capture more of it.
 
The need for action on climate change isn't a partisan issue. That the evidence are so overwhelming that even Rupert Murdoch's Australian news outlets have to support net zero emission target.

His American news outlets are denying it. Murdoch is a flagrant liar so i wouldnt count on his support.
 
Yes. The sun generates all the energy we will ever need. We just have to develop the tech. to capture more of it.

Current renewables technologies represent the economics of the madhouse and are nowhere near viability .

Did you know that if you covered every square foot of the Netherlands in solar panels it still wouldnt be enough to supply half their energy requirements :oops:
 
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