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Then stop posting in my threads. Simple as that.
If you can't, or won't communicate, leave.
Elvira can't do straight answers.
Then stop posting in my threads. Simple as that.
If you can't, or won't communicate, leave.
You think Bible is denying Hell? (what I think about Hell is that.. it's something what happens when someone is turning back to God, so God is turning back too and leaving individual alone, forever away from God is what Hell is). Maybe you can point out that's false assumption. I'm not expert on anything and I'm not aware of how religious logic works. School me
I'm not aware of how religious logic works. School me
John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Okay, so here's that verse:
Now what?
What happens to the Jew, the Hindu, the Muslim, and others who are very devoutly religious due to their culture, parents, geography, and other factors?
They believe with all their heart their faith is the true faith. They are good people.
Would they be condemned to eternity of everything that's not heaven for that?
And what about those Christians who perhaps have a different version of Christianity? Baptists? Catholics? Presbyterians? The one's who believe in the Trinity? Or the Westboro Baptist? What about them?
Which gets back to the OP.
Why would a loving god decide the eternal fate of a soul based solely on the pathetically short period of time they spend as humans, when so many factors can drastically change one's beliefs while they're human?
You think Bible is denying Hell? (what I think about Hell is that.. it's something what happens when someone is turning back to God, so God is turning back too and leaving individual alone, forever away from God is what Hell is). Maybe you can point out that's false assumption. I'm not expert on anything and I'm not aware of how religious logic works. School me
For the ease of discussion, lets say that the human life span is 100 years. Most less, but some more, so it's just easy to call it a nice round 100.
Now I know it's impossible, but picture a timeline that represents eternity.
How small of a dot would that 100 year human life span be on the timeline of eternity? A microdot? A millidot? A pecodot? Could the human eye even detect that dot?
Probably not right?
So why then would a god that's dealing with time in eternal parameters judge, and condemn or reward an eternal existence to another entity based solely on that 100 years of Earth life?
Or a better question might be why would a "loving god" do that? I think we could all understand that a bitter savage god might do such a thing.
This becomes even more of a quandary when thinking about the random chance/luck around how, when, where, and to whom one is born.
The human that is born into a North Korean existence is going to have a much different opportunity at life and it's questions than the human born into a North American existence. Correct?
The human born into a 12th century existence vs the one born today.
The human born into a Islamic culture vs the one born into a Hindu culture vs the one born into a Mormon culture.
The human born with drug addictions and poverty vs the one born to truly caring and loving parents with wealth.
All these things shape and direct how and what a person will learn and believe in their very short lifetime. Yet we're supposed to believe they'll be judged and condemned/rewarded, for all eternity, on/for things that are completely out of their control?
Why would a loving god punish a human for eternity who was born, raised, and then died devoutly believing in a Hindu culture when that's all he/she knew?
How does one justify the rationality that your eternal condition is based solely and only on the 100 (probably less) years you spend on Earth?
Figuring in that your time on Earth has so many variables that are completely out of your own control.
So tell me, what else might our eternity be based on? And where do you get this information from?
Add to that the fact that nobody volunteered to play this game,
and it gets even more absurd. How many, for example, Africans born into disease-ridden, grinding poverty who live a miserable 28 years before dying of AIDS, and born into the "wrong" religion, only to find themselves burning in Hell for eternity, literally - for eternity, would have put their hands up for a spin at the wheel? I'm betting none.
The point is, you have no say about this. You can disagree or protest all you want, it won't matter at all.
Whether you "volunteered to play the game or not," does not make any difference. You're still in it, whether you want to or not.
According to the Scriptures, everyone will be judged!
God is the only One who knows what. He is the only Judge, and He is just.
Of course, we can't fathom the full scope of His thinking. We're only human.
So it is very possible that everything you claim about god is dead wrong.
The point is, you have no say about this. You can disagree or protest all you want, it won't matter at all.
Whether you "volunteered to play the game or not," does not make any difference. You're still in it, whether you want to or not.
According to the Scriptures, everyone will be judged!
God is the only One who knows what. He is the only Judge, and He is just.
Of course, we can't fathom the full scope of His thinking. We're only human.
You think Bible is denying Hell? (what I think about Hell is that.. it's something what happens when someone is turning back to God, so God is turning back too and leaving individual alone, forever away from God is what Hell is). Maybe you can point out that's false assumption. I'm not expert on anything and I'm not aware of how religious logic works. School me
A word used in the King James Version (as well as in the Catholic Douay Version and most older translations) to translate the Hebrew sheʼohlʹ and the Greek haiʹdes. In the King James Version the word “hell” is rendered from sheʼohlʹ 31 times and from haiʹdes 10 times. This version is not consistent, however, since sheʼohlʹ is also translated 31 times “grave” and 3 times “pit.” In the Douay Version sheʼohlʹ is rendered “hell” 64 times, “pit” once, and “death” once.
“Hellfire” has been a basic teaching in Christendom for many centuries. It is understandable why The Encyclopedia Americana (1956, Vol. XIV, p. 81) said: “Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.” Nevertheless, such transliteration and consistent rendering does enable the Bible student to make an accurate comparison of the texts in which these original words appear and, with open mind, thereby to arrive at a correct understanding of their true significance.
Exactly. That is a perfect description of the absurdity I was talking about.
Just more absurdity. We're going to be judged on standards set by a mind we can't comprehend. Brilliant! Just abso-****ing-lutely brilliant.
Add to that the stupidity of having to decide between the Qur'an and the bible (just to name two).
The former (believed to be a verbatim sermon from God) says believing Jesus to be the son of God is a ticket to Hell, while the latter (believed to be inspired by God) says NOT believing Jesus to be the son of God will keep you from Heaven. Either way, the society you are born into, which you have NO control over, is by far the largest factor in determining which of those two competing stories is true. Wait, unless it's neither.........
Like I said - ABSURD.
Hell/Sheol/Hades is the grave, nothing more, nothing less...the Bible supports that...
Hell — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Whatever exactly Hell is...….. we'll still feel the kind of torment that comes with eternal punishment. :shrug:
What Does the Bible Say About Eternal Punishment?
That those cast in hell will feel the torment, certainly shows that they're still around.
Only man desires to see another man suffer forever for his sins...:roll:
Jehovah God says burning a person is something detestable that He would never desire to do...
"Furthermore, they built the high places of Baal that are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to make their sons and their daughters pass through [the fire] to Molech, a thing that I did not command them, neither did it come up into my heart to do this detestable thing, for the purpose of making Judah sin.’" Jeremiah 32:35
It has nothing to do with man's desires. It is written.
Numerous verses speaks outright of eternal punishment.
What Does the Bible Say About Eternal Punishment?
He didn't say that. You're adding. You're putting words in His mouth.
As you quoted below, here is what He said:
……...a thing that I did not command them
neither did it come up into my heart to do this detestable thing
Burning people as sacrificial offering to Him - that's what He's referring to.
Big difference.
We don't know exactly if burning is to be literally taken - but we can be sure (because GOD HAS REPEATEDLY SAID SO), whatever and however hell is going to be like, it will be a place, or a state of suffering.
irrelevant.
You're taking it out of context. This is about a pagan practice of worship, which Judah participated in.
What is the ‘torment’ to which these texts refer? It is noteworthy that at Revelation 11:10 (KJ) reference is made to ‘prophets that torment those dwelling on the earth.’ Such torment results from humiliating exposure by the messages that these prophets proclaim. At Revelation 14:9-11 (KJ) worshipers of the symbolic “beast and his image” are said to be “tormented with fire and brimstone.” This cannot refer to conscious torment after death because “the dead know not any thing.” (Eccl. 9:5, KJ) Then, what causes them to experience such torment while they are still alive? It is the proclamation by God’s servants that worshipers of the “beast and his image” will experience second death, which is represented by “the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone.” The smoke, associated with their fiery destruction, ascends forever because the destruction will be eternal and will never be forgotten. When Revelation 20:10 says that the Devil is to experience ‘torment forever and ever’ in “the lake of fire and brimstone,” what does that mean? Revelation 21:8 (KJ) says clearly that “the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone” means “the second death.” So the Devil’s being “tormented” there forever means that there will be no relief for him; he will be held under restraint forever, actually in eternal death. This use of the word “torment” (from the Greek baʹsa·nos) reminds one of its use at Matthew 18:34, where the same basic Greek word is applied to a ‘jailer.’—RS, AT, ED, NW.
For the ease of discussion, lets say that the human life span is 100 years. Most less, but some more, so it's just easy to call it a nice round 100.
Now I know it's impossible, but picture a timeline that represents eternity.
How small of a dot would that 100 year human life span be on the timeline of eternity? A microdot? A millidot? A pecodot? Could the human eye even detect that dot?
Probably not right?
So why then would a god that's dealing with time in eternal parameters judge, and condemn or reward an eternal existence to another entity based solely on that 100 years of Earth life?
Or a better question might be why would a "loving god" do that? I think we could all understand that a bitter savage god might do such a thing.
This becomes even more of a quandary when thinking about the random chance/luck around how, when, where, and to whom one is born.
The human that is born into a North Korean existence is going to have a much different opportunity at life and it's questions than the human born into a North American existence. Correct?
The human born into a 12th century existence vs the one born today.
The human born into a Islamic culture vs the one born into a Hindu culture vs the one born into a Mormon culture.
The human born with drug addictions and poverty vs the one born to truly caring and loving parents with wealth.
All these things shape and direct how and what a person will learn and believe in their very short lifetime. Yet we're supposed to believe they'll be judged and condemned/rewarded, for all eternity, on/for things that are completely out of their control?
Why would a loving god punish a human for eternity who was born, raised, and then died devoutly believing in a Hindu culture when that's all he/she knew?
How does one justify the rationality that your eternal condition is based solely and only on the 100 (probably less) years you spend on Earth?
Figuring in that your time on Earth has so many variables that are completely out of your own control.
No, it is not...
This cannot refer to conscious torment after death because “the dead know not any thing.” (Eccl. 9:5, KJ)
Hell — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
What does it mean that the dead know nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5)? | GotQuestions.orgThe key to understanding the statement “the dead know nothing” is found in the theme of the book of Ecclesiastes.
Ecclesiastes is written specifically from an earthly perspective.
The key phrase, repeated throughout the book, is under the sun, used about thirty times.
Solomon is commenting on an earth-bound life, “under the sun,” without God.
His conclusion, also repeated throughout the book, is that everything from that perspective is “vanity” or emptiness (Ecclesiastes 1:2).
When a person dies “under the sun,” the earthly perspective, without God, is that it’s over. He is no longer under the sun. There is no more knowledge to give or be given, just a grave to mark his remains. Those who have died have “no further reward” in this life; they no longer have the ability to enjoy life like those who are living.
Eventually, “even their name is forgotten” (Ecclesiastes 9:5).
:lol: A criminal gets judged by a court judge, based on the law.
Whether the criminal fully understands the law or not, he's still going to be judged according to the standard of the minds who'd set the laws!
We can agree with the judgement or not, or go through all the process of protesting and appealing, or have a fit before the judge - but, eventually,
the judgment of the court will still be carried out!
So.....having given an analogy that perhaps you can relate it with, surely we don't blame the judge for our own stupidity (of breaking the law, or for our own ignorance
of the law)?
Furthermore.....the notch is raised even higher when we talk about God.
How is it absurd for a Creator to do exactly as He pleased to His Creations?
We say it is "absurd" because...………….. we either can't fully grasp the concept of GOD/CREATOR...…………... or we resent our helplessness before Him.
It's like kids sticking their tongues out at authority they can't buck. That's normal for non-believers, I suppose. :lol:
Pardon me for asking: who's putting a gun to your head?
Why are you so troubled about having to decide...….if you don't believe?
What is it to you whatever the Bible says...….if you don't believe in the Christian God?
Now, that's what I find so absurd.
And......to borrow from Calamity...…...that, is the freaking contradiction often shown by non-believers! :lol:
Blame society then! :lol:
Don't blame the God...……………….. you don't believe exists! :mrgreen:
That's absurd.