10 yr old shot two weeks after 2 yr old

[CaughtInThe]

do you think most the leaders of the anti gun movement are primarily interested in those homicides or is there another reason why they push laws that target people who have NOT harmed others?

What difference does it make? The problem can't be fixed.

 

[CaughtInThe]

The problem can be fixed...you just dont have the guts or political will to address the problem.

When people identified a drunk driving problem, they didnt advocate for stupid solutions like banning cars. Because that would be...well...stupid.

So is advocating for banning guns.

No, the problem can't be fixed.

See, that's the craziest part of this madness. You guys think it can.

 

[calamity]

if most car owners were conservatives and if AAA mainly supported such politicians, I bet lefties would

:roll:

 

[marke]

Philadelphia shooting: 10-year-old boy shot in head while walking home from school - CNN





Don't the people deserve freedom from gun violence? Seems to me that if ever there was a "natural right," it would be the right for a boy to walk home from school without being shot in the freaking head.

It would be nice to live in a world without violence. It would also be nice to live in a world where dummies did not think destroying everyone else's freedom would somehow miraculously turn the world into a heaven on earth without violence. These daydreamers don't seem to have learned anything from past gun laws designed to curb violence which did absolutely nothing to curb violence.

 

[VanceMack]

No, the problem can't be fixed.

See, that's the craziest part of this madness. You guys think it can.

Let me show you a picture.



Make sense?

Here...let me simplify it for you...



OK...heres the tricky part. Same city. Same state. Same country. Same gun ownership laws. Same gun availability.

Now how is it that the vast majority of the country, state, hell...even the city of Chicago can manage an existence that isnt dominated by exorbitant gun violence and homicide rates? What is it in those high crime/high violence areas that people like you dont have the guts or political will to deal with, instead defaulting to "but its the GUNS...it HAS to be the GUNS!!!" even though everyone else NOT in areas like that manages to live a pretty safe existence WITH the presence of firearms?

The craziest part of this is that you are more invested in your cause than in stopping gun violence. All that really proves is you literally dont give the first **** about the victims or the actual problem. But then...we already knew that.

 

[calamity]

Let me show you a picture.

View attachment 67267974

Make sense?

Here...let me simplify it for you...

View attachment 67267975

OK...heres the tricky part. Same city. Same state. Same country. Same gun ownership laws. Same gun availability.

Now how is it that the vast majority of the country, state, hell...even the city of Chicago can manage an existence that isnt dominated by exorbitant gun violence and homicide rates? What is it in those high crime/high violence areas that people like you dont have the guts or political will to deal with, instead defaulting to "but its the GUNS...it HAS to be the GUNS!!!" even though everyone else NOT in areas like that manages to live a pretty safe existence WITH the presence of firearms?

The craziest part of this is that you are more invested in your cause than in stopping gun violence. All that really proves is you literally dont give the first **** about the victims or the actual problem. But then...we already knew that.

Drugs being the only economy in a neighborhood will do that.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Let me show you a picture.

View attachment 67267974

Make sense?

Here...let me simplify it for you...

View attachment 67267975

OK...heres the tricky part. Same city. Same state. Same country. Same gun ownership laws. Same gun availability.

Now how is it that the vast majority of the country, state, hell...even the city of Chicago can manage an existence that isnt dominated by exorbitant gun violence and homicide rates? What is it in those high crime/high violence areas that people like you dont have the guts or political will to deal with, instead defaulting to "but its the GUNS...it HAS to be the GUNS!!!" even though everyone else NOT in areas like that manages to live a pretty safe existence WITH the presence of firearms?

The craziest part of this is that you are more invested in your cause than in stopping gun violence. All that really proves is you literally dont give the first **** about the victims or the actual problem. But then...we already knew that.

Not one thing you posted proved that this problem can be fixed.

Are you sure you responded to the correct post?

 

[VanceMack]

Not one thing you posted proved that this problem can be fixed.

Are you sure you responded to the correct post?

:lamo

Right. You dont think cracking down on violent criminals is a solution. You dont think a change in impoverished communities and a commitment to economic development is a solution. You think there is no solution, the problem cant be fixed...not because of guns...which are universally available and NOT the problem...but because...what...the perpetrators are incapable of better?

 

[calamity]

:lamo

Right. You dont think cracking down on violent criminals is a solution. You dont think a change in impoverished communities and a commitment to economic development is a solution. You think there is no solution, the problem cant be fixed...not because of guns...which are universally available and NOT the problem...but because...what...the perpetrators are incapable of better?

Not all homicides are drive-bys in the ghetto. There are lots of domestic homicides in good old white America. And, guess what? Guns are the weapon of choice in most of them.

 

[CaughtInThe]

:lamo

Right. You dont think cracking down on violent criminals is a solution. You dont think a change in impoverished communities and a commitment to economic development is a solution. You think there is no solution, the problem cant be fixed...not because of guns...which are universally available and NOT the problem...but because...what...the perpetrators are incapable of better?

Yes, I think there is no solution.

Here's a map of the shootings in the United States. Show me your solution…

 

[VanceMack]

Drugs being the only economy in a neighborhood will do that.

Ah...so now we are getting somewhere. So nice to see you actually considering the PROBLEM and not just some simple minded response like "GUNS BAD!!!" So we agree...the problem is that the leadership in those cities have completely ****ed over those communities, abandoned them, and drugs, gangs, and poverty pretty much rule the day.

See...I agree with you 100%. Thats why the talk about guns as the problem is so ****ing stupid. Thats why it is so ridiculous that people focus on guns and law abiding citizens and the NRA as their favorite Baba Yaga instead of focusing on violent criminals and economic development as a solution. Hell...Ive only been saying that on this site for 9+ years.

 

[calamity]

Ah...so now we are getting somewhere. So nice to see you actually considering the PROBLEM and not just some simple minded response like "GUNS BAD!!!" So we agree...the problem is that the leadership in those cities have completely ****ed over those communities, abandoned them, and drugs, gangs, and poverty pretty much rule the day.

See...I agree with you 100%. Thats why the talk about guns as the problem is so ****ing stupid. Thats why it is so ridiculous that people focus on guns and law abiding citizens and the NRA as their favorite Baba Yaga instead of focusing on violent criminals and economic development as a solution. Hell...Ive only been saying that on this site for 9+ years.

It's not just the leadership. The rust belt did not get rusty because the mayor sucked.

 

[VanceMack]

Yes, I think there is no solution.

Here's a map of the shootings in the United States. Show me your solution…

View attachment 67267976

Well now its not that complicated, actually. It just depends on if you are committed to solving the problem. I have posted the solution on this site NUMEROUS times.

1-Pass mandatory minimum sentencing laws for anyone that uses a weapon in the commission of a violent crime. 40 years mandatory plus the time for the criminal act. No excuses.
2-Use RICO statutes to target gang leadership where gang activity is involved and sentence gang leaders to the same time served.
3-Zero tolerance drug policies. Mandatory minimums for drug dealers.
4-Invest in cities. Develop and either rebuild or build a community center than can be used to provide a wide array of services including health care, child care, vocational training, drug rehabilitation, etc.
5-Hire those newly trained individuals to begin tearing down and removing unsafe buildings that cant be rehabbed. Rehab buildings that can be rehabbed. Start building homes and create a home purchase plan that allows workers to invest sweat equity in the homes they are building for purchase.
6-Bring in low medium to medium income manufacturing jobs so that kids have real options in schools, not just the dream of landing a job at Mickey Ds.
7-Vocation classes at schools...teach trades.
8-Zero tolerance policies at schools. kick the little ****ers out that are more invested in disrupting and causing problems. Create safe school environments for learning.
9-Promote education and college attendance.

This would take about 10 years to turn a community around. It would require a significant amount of personal investment from private businessmen, sports teams and athletes, US and foreign manufacturing companies, and city, state, and federal government. It would require 100% transparency. Yep...I get it. Its hard work and would require a massive investment. Funny thing is I literally have said the same thing on this site for 10 years now. So if we had done this when I joined this site (as an example) today, those communities would be viable. Perfect? No...they would be like every other middle income racially diverse city in the country where people have what is defined as 'privilege'. But would it be a HELL of a lot better? You bet.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Well now its not that complicated, actually. It just depends on if you are committed to solving the problem. I have posted the solution on this site NUMEROUS times.

1-Pass mandatory minimum sentencing laws for anyone that uses a weapon in the commission of a violent crime. 40 years mandatory plus the time for the criminal act. No excuses.
2-Use RICO statutes to target gang leadership where gang activity is involved and sentence gang leaders to the same time served.
3-Zero tolerance drug policies. Mandatory minimums for drug dealers.
4-Invest in cities. Develop and either rebuild or build a community center than can be used to provide a wide array of services including health care, child care, vocational training, drug rehabilitation, etc.
5-Hire those newly trained individuals to begin tearing down and removing unsafe buildings that cant be rehabbed. Rehab buildings that can be rehabbed. Start building homes and create a home purchase plan that allows workers to invest sweat equity in the homes they are building for purchase.
6-Bring in low medium to medium income manufacturing jobs so that kids have real options in schools, not just the dream of landing a job at Mickey Ds.
7-Vocation classes at schools...teach trades.
8-Zero tolerance policies at schools. kick the little ****ers out that are more invested in disrupting and causing problems. Create safe school environments for learning.
9-Promote education and college attendance.

This would take about 10 years to turn a community around. It would require a significant amount of personal investment from private businessmen, sports teams and athletes, US and foreign manufacturing companies, and city, state, and federal government. It would require 100% transparency. Yep...I get it. Its hard work and would require a massive investment. Funny thing is I literally have said the same thing on this site for 10 years now. So if we had done this when I joined this site (as an example) today, those communities would be viable. Perfect? No...they would be like every other middle income racially diverse city in the country where people have what is defined as 'privilege'. But would it be a HELL of a lot better? You bet.

Here's a map of women gunned down by their significant others. You just gonna ignore that?

 

[VanceMack]

It's not just the leadership. The rust belt did not get rusty because the mayor sucked.

The rust belt fell into decay for a variety of reasons and a large part of that WAS their city leadership but it was also a combination of poor management and unions driving jobs out of the area. Manufacturing has rebounded...but not in those areas. Hell we have more real foreign auto manufacturing in the US...companies willing to invest in building from the ground up...than we had US auto manufacturers. The smart person asks 'why' and what we have to do to incentivize manufacturing in the US.

Or you can sit back and moan about failed days gone by.

 

[VanceMack]

Here's a map of women gunned down by their significant others. You just gonna ignore that?

View attachment 67267979

:lamo

SO wait...we just solved the vast majority of gun violence...but you just want to blow by that and address domestic violence.

OK...what are some of the leading causes of domestic violence?

(oh...and BTW...are you sure that map shows instances where women were 'gunned down' by their significant others or all instances where women were killed by domestic partners?)

 

[CaughtInThe]

:lamo

SO wait...we just solved the vast majority of gun violence...but you just want to blow by that and address domestic violence.

OK...what are some of the leading causes of domestic violence?

(oh...and BTW...are you sure that map shows instances where women were 'gunned down' by their significant others or all instances where women were killed by domestic partners?)

Actually, you haven't solved anything. The firearm homicides will continue every 54 minutes, the mass shootings will continue daily with a high profile one happening about once a month and women will continue to get gunned down by their significant others.

You're just posting words on a message board and thinking you're solving problems.

 

[VanceMack]

Here's a map of women gunned down by their significant others. You just gonna ignore that?

View attachment 67267979

http://vpc.org/studies/wmmw2019.pdf

That might interest you. It gives far more details than your map and it shows the actual figures and actual means of homicide. It also describes some of the same problems as cited in the previous discussion...specifically...

"The disproportionate burden of fatal and nonfatal violence borne by black females has almost always been overshadowed by the toll violence has taken on black males. Research published in July 2017 by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found, “Homicides occur in women of all ages and among all races/ethnicities, but young, racial/ethnic minority women are disproportionately affected.” The article concluded, “The racial/ethnic differences in female homicide underscore the importance of targeting prevention and intervention efforts to populations at disproportionately high risk. Addressing violence will require an integrated response that considers the influence of larger community and societal factors that make violence more likely to occur.”15In 2017, black females were murdered by males at a rate more than twice as high as white females: 2.55 per 100,000 versus 1.13 per 100,000.AGE OF BLACK FEMALE HOMICIDE VICTIMS In 2017, for single female victim/single male offender homicides where the age of the victim was reported (491 homicides), 10 percent of black female victims were less than 18 years old (49 victims) and six percent were 65 years of age or older (29 victims). The average age of black female homicide victims was 35 years old.VICTIM TO OFFENDER RELATIONSHIP Compared to a black male, a black female is far more likely to be killed by her spouse, an intimate acquaintance, or a family member than by a stranger. Where the relationship could be determined, 91 percent of black females killed by males in single victim/single offender incidents knew their killers (390 out of 427)"

So yes...actually...we have helped with this problem as well.

 

[VanceMack]

Actually, you haven't solved anything. The firearm homicides will continue every 54 minutes, the mass shootings will continue daily with a high profile one happening about once a month and women will continue to get gunned down by their significant others.

You're just posting words on a message board and thinking you're solving problems.

:lamo

I'm offering solutions. You are standing in a corner peeing yourself over guns.

Buh bye.

 

[CaughtInThe]

:lamo

I'm offering solutions. You are standing in a corner peeing yourself over guns.

Buh bye.

No, I am saying that with our current constitution and laws there is no solution. Here's yet another map of indiscriminate mass shootings. Where is your solution for this?

 

[jaeger19]

And gun deaths ate the highest in any first world nation

Even higher than Syria...

Gosh.. maybe you should move to Syria... VEGAS... you know.. where you will be safe from guns.

As has been repeatedly proven.. gun deaths is a meaningless statistic.

 

[Rich2018]

Your speeding analogy is completely off. You don’t restrict the rights of others because of the bad acts of a small few...

Yes you do, in fact most laws come about because of abuse of the system by a few


Have you not heard the phrase "The few ruin it for everybody..."

...simply removing firearms won’t reduce violence. The gun doesn’t cause the violence, the person does...

Of couse not, removing guns won't stop violent people from being violent

They will have to be a lot less lethal though if access to guns is removed. How many mass stabbings have you heard of ... one, two ?

...you can create a nice list of excuses, that doesn’t reduce that’s list relevance....

No, the list is meant to categorize the objection to gun control and defeat each and every argument

...amend the constitution through the proper procedures....

Until the 2nd Amendment is repealed, all gun controls are half measures. In the meantime, I like the compulsory national background check and mandatory registration of every gun though.

...if one spelling error via an iPhone is a point for you, hear you go.

It's easy to get the two similar sounding words confused

I had a manager who spelled as she talked and sent e-mails confusing insure and ensure and except and accept. Hopefully your embarrassment will cause you to avoid a future confusion.

...a database is step one to confiscation....

Yes it would be useful for that if guns were ever banned following a repeal of the 2nd Amendment

But in the meantime a mandatory registration would help law enforcement trace a firearm following a gun crime.

...why should my family be subject to a background check to inherit my property?

They say where there's a will there's a relative...what if your sole beneficiary is a psychopath with a history of violent crime ?

 

[Rich2018]

Wrong it’s technically the person behind the trigger that kills....

No, I'd say it was the bullet as evidenced by people who been lucky enough to see the bullet MISS

No-one ever got shot by an empty gun

...my vehicle shouldn’t be required to outfitted with speed governor simply because the guy down the street got a speeding ticket.

No, but you should be required to obey the same speeding law.


We could go your route though and when / if guns are banned, it will be possible to keep your gun(s) is you modify them to make them safe. It's called deactivation. And a properly deactivated gun cannot shoot a bullet.

 

[Rich2018]

You're the one who claimed cops wanted to disarm people.

You first.

No, I expressed a perception, YOU expressed a claimed "fact"

 

[Rich2018]

There is only a question of precedence between two competing elements when those elements are in conflict. Owning a gun does not conflict with anyone else's rights....

What ? Are you insane ?

Being shot by that gun(s) is not a violation of human rights ?

....you're talking about the simple act of owning a gun. Owning a gun is not the same as shooting someone....

No it's not. And every active shooter owned (or had access to an owned gun) owned a gun before shooting people with it

Are you proposing an "honor system" where a prospective gun buyer swear to never shoot anyone with it ?
Good luck with that.

"OK Mr Paddock, here's your gun..."

...it is exasperating that this distinction must be explained.

It's incredible that gun owners think they're such a bunch of angels.